Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

PB Forum :: Pinkbike Groups
Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
Author Message
Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 8:23 Quote
Twenty6ers4life wrote:
Nobble wrote:
Honestly $1300 isn't that bad for what you can do with it.

I’m sure it’s very capable, but it’s the price of a fork or 2 shocks. Unless your a top 20 sponsored pro DH or enduro racer or dentist, I can’t really see the average rider dropping that much cash for that. But if you’ve got money to burn, why not I suppose.
keep in mind that it’s a one time purchase. I think the data would provide surprisingly large improvements to most people’s bike setup.

Obviously if you’re the set and forget type of rider who is happy with 3 position dampers everywhere then it’s not for you; but if your the nerdy sort who likes tweaking and optimizing then I could see it being money well spent. Especially if you split the cost with a couple of mates.

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 8:35 Quote
Nobble wrote:
Twenty6ers4life wrote:
Nobble wrote:
Honestly $1300 isn't that bad for what you can do with it.

I’m sure it’s very capable, but it’s the price of a fork or 2 shocks. Unless your a top 20 sponsored pro DH or enduro racer or dentist, I can’t really see the average rider dropping that much cash for that. But if you’ve got money to burn, why not I suppose.
keep in mind that it’s a one time purchase. I think the data would provide surprisingly large improvements to most people’s bike setup.

Obviously if you’re the set and forget type of rider who is happy with 3 position dampers everywhere then it’s not for you; but if your the nerdy sort who likes tweaking and optimizing then I could see it being money well spent. Especially if you split the cost with a couple of mates.


That’s true, but for the cost of the tax for the motion pro, you could buy a shockwiz, (that contrary to what a couple others have said is like a toy) and it will get you within 70-80% of what the motion pro can do for a fraction of the cost. Not to mention that it can be rented for about $25, and it’s easier to setup and use. Just sayin.

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 10:08 Quote
scjeremy wrote:
I agree with bikeboy and rish. Totally personal preference, riding style, and terrain. But I’d guess maybe you guys weigh more than circe and I do? I ended up about 10-15 psi below recommended pressure at 155lbs.

I weigh 183lbs. The Fox chart recommends 76-80 psi, I ended up at 90psi and one token.

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 10:13 Quote
The Shokwiz gives you suggestions, which is great for the average rider, but doesn’t give you access to the actual data.

The MI system is the most advanced data acquisition on the market. It plots your wheel speeds in compression and rebound and overlays the averages, etc... it allows you to actually see what your suspension is doing.

My friends who own MI systems are engineers at bike brands. Its a different customer. I have a shokwiz and used it once. It was a joke. It told me my suspension was basically perfect. Knowing what I know now, it was good, but no where close. I needed to see the actual data.

Motion Instruments has a new product for dirt bikes they’re working on and I would love to rent a system. I’ve actually asked my suspension tuner if he can purchase one. It would be cool to rent a system before having my suspension tuned, so we know exactly what it’s doing.

What did the MI data show me? Every rider I know who has used the MI system seems to end up with faster free moving suspension. Greg Minnaar and Cody Kelly have interviews where they talk about it.

Vital has a video that shows how the system works and the process of tuning. Lee Trumpore (the EWS photos, who is fast AF) ends up with his shock rebound one click from open. On the front, he’s alarmist exactly as Fox’s stock 38 recommendations minus an air spacer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgQxlB-BqlU

We spend thousands on these bikes and suspension but leave performance on the table by guessing our way through the suspension tunes.

I thought my Ripmo was feeling pretty damn good. Did some testing with the data and I was totally off. My fork had to much air, my shock was too slow, etc...The end result is the best feeling suspension I’ve ever experienced. Its a level of performance I didn’t know was possible and I now chase on every bike I ride.

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 10:25 Quote
bikerboywill wrote:

What does the data acquisition tell you? I’m really getting hung up on suspension theory lately and can’t decide if harder spring rates and compression is better for staying higher in the travel with more support to hold the shape of the bike better or if softer and more forgiving is better so that the wheels move out of the way quicker to maintain forward momentum but then being mushy off jumps and in hard corners.
I’ve always had the thought of “go as hard as possible until it becomes hard to hold on” but after riding my friends megatower that is super soft I can’t decide

There is no substitute for timed runs on a EWS level track. I don’t think there is one answers fits all, because it comes down to rider preference.

Each rider has their own philosophy. Robin Wallner runs his read super soft to maximize traction. Trying his setup, the bike is almost unrideable for me. He is so light on the rear wheel, it’s insane. Greg Minaar and Loic Bruni also fun very fast setups.

Richie Rude and Aaron Gwin seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum. They want to maintain geo and don’t care about the suspension being supple.

All of these riders do insane amounts of testing and know what works best for them. They have teams of bike company engineers and their own personal mechanics to help tune their bikes in.

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 10:28 Quote
Twenty6ers4life wrote:
Nobble wrote:
Honestly $1300 isn't that bad for what you can do with it.

I’m sure it’s very capable, but it’s the price of a fork or 2 shocks. Unless your a top 20 sponsored pro DH or enduro racer or dentist, I can’t really see the average rider dropping that much cash for that. But if you’ve got money to burn, why not I suppose. Also, that price doesn’t include tax or shipping, so tack on another $300 or so.

It honestly seems even more reasonable when you frame it as the cost of a fork. Looking at the amount of money and effort people put into suspension gains (new fork, new shock, custom tune, offset bushings, aftermarket link, maybe a frame upgrade), $1300USD for the ability for inform and optimize every subsequent upgrade is a bargain. Just delay the 38 purchase for one year and you can achieve suspension nirvana

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 10:50 Quote
Circe wrote:
The Shokwiz gives you suggestions, which is great for the average rider, but doesn’t give you access to the actual data.

The MI system is the most advanced data acquisition on the market. It plots your wheel speeds in compression and rebound and overlays the averages, etc... it allows you to actually see what your suspension is doing.

My friends who own MI systems are engineers at bike brands. Its a different customer. I have a shokwiz and used it once. It was a joke. It told me my suspension was basically perfect. Knowing what I know now, it was good, but no where close. I needed to see the actual data.

Motion Instruments has a new product for dirt bikes they’re working on and I would love to rent a system. I’ve actually asked my suspension tuner if he can purchase one. It would be cool to rent a system before having my suspension tuned, so we know exactly what it’s doing.

What did the MI data show me? Every rider I know who has used the MI system seems to end up with faster free moving suspension. Greg Minnaar and Cody Kelly have interviews where they talk about it.

Vital has a video that shows how the system works and the process of tuning. Lee Trumpore (the EWS photos, who is fast AF) ends up with his shock rebound one click from open. On the front, he’s alarmist exactly as Fox’s stock 38 recommendations minus an air spacer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgQxlB-BqlU

We spend thousands on these bikes and suspension but leave performance on the table by guessing our way through the suspension tunes.

I thought my Ripmo was feeling pretty damn good. Did some testing with the data and I was totally off. My fork had to much air, my shock was too slow, etc...The end result is the best feeling suspension I’ve ever experienced. Its a level of performance I didn’t know was possible and I now chase on every bike I ride.

I have a Shockwiz and it's been very useful so far. Helped me dial in my fork. Super easy to use. Your average rider doesn't need a super high-tech diagnostic tool.

Also I might add that one ride with the Shockwiz is not enough to get adequate data for suspension adjustment. I recommend at least 3 rides before you're going to get useful information.

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 12:05 Quote
I wonder what PHeller thinks of the price?

Seriously though - for what it is and does, I don't believe it's over priced. Also - they offer an expert system for less money. And another option is to just rent the Motion Instruments system.



Twenty6ers4life wrote:
Also, that price doesn’t include tax or shipping, so tack on another $300 or so.

Wow - what's the tax rate in your locale? Wink Wink

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 13:18 Quote
I can see a high end shop or suspension service centre buying one and renting it out rather than a shockwiz. I’d pay a fair amount of money to actually use a worthwhile setup.

Here’s another question to ponder over:

How much travel do you actually need for the perfect set up?

I rarely use more than 150mm of the 170mm I have on the front of the bike. If I were to soften the forks so I use all the travel they feel under sprung with not enough support. Does this mean I should get a 150mm bike next time and set my forks up to feel the same as my current ones or ride knarlier bigger features to use all of the travel?

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 13:38 Quote
bikerboywill wrote:
How much travel do you actually need for the perfect set up?

How Much Travel Do You Really Want?
How Much Travel Do You Really Need?


bikerboywill wrote:
I rarely use more than 150mm of the 170mm I have on the front of the bike. If I were to soften the forks so I use all the travel they feel under sprung with not enough support. Does this mean I should get a 150mm bike next time and set my forks up to feel the same as my current ones

Yes, if these are your preferred or most-ridden trails. In the meantime, remove any volume reducers in the air spring and, if necessary, add a tiny bit of pressure.


bikerboywill wrote:
or ride knarlier bigger features to use all of the travel?

Changing your riding style to suit your bike seems an odd solution to the problem.

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 14:35 Quote
That last point was slightly tongue in cheek, but thanks for the tips and links

Salute

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 14:39 Quote
It's not an entirely bad idea, just not the most straightforward. You could frame it another way by deciding to get stronger and ride the same trails harder. Maybe you aspire to a burlier body or burlier trails, not just for the sake of making use of the bike, or maybe you're content as-is.

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 15:45 Quote
kwapik wrote:
I wonder what PHeller thinks of the price?

Seriously though - for what it is and does, I don't believe it's over priced. Also - they offer an expert system for less money. And another option is to just rent the Motion Instruments system.



Twenty6ers4life wrote:
Also, that price doesn’t include tax or shipping, so tack on another $300 or so.

Wow - what's the tax rate in your locale? Wink Wink

Sadly, it’s 9.5%

Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 20:08 Quote
Why arent shops renting them out?

Posted: Sep 14, 2020 at 1:30 Quote
Twenty6ers4life wrote:
kwapik wrote:
I wonder what PHeller thinks of the price?

Seriously though - for what it is and does, I don't believe it's over priced. Also - they offer an expert system for less money. And another option is to just rent the Motion Instruments system.



Twenty6ers4life wrote:
Also, that price doesn’t include tax or shipping, so tack on another $300 or so.

Wow - what's the tax rate in your locale? Wink Wink

Sadly, it’s 9.5%

Ha - VAT in the UK is 20%....


 
Copyright © 2000 - 2020. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.020602
Mobile Version of Website