Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 11:18 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Part of the reason I've started thinking that tires have a bigger impact and I've started caring less about my bike weight and more about trying to get multiple wheelsets in the garage with different tire setups for different types of riding.

I really want to try a Dissector or Forkaster to compare against the Hellkat. I feel like Hellkat actually rolls pretty good considering its grip.

This is interesting because if you look at what is done at the other extremes in motor racing & rallying, tyre compounds, tread & shape can have a huge impact.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 11:38 Quote
Bike tire rolling resistance is more about the casing than the lug pattern, though the Hellkat's tall lugs aren't doing it any favours! For anyone who doubts this, spend some time on BicycleRollingResistance.com, especially categories other than Mountain. There's some relationship between rolling resistance, weight, and lug height, but there are loads of outliers, some of which are way out there. As an example, the Schwalbe Kojak is light and fully slick, yet the rolling resistance is high. There are gravel tires with a decent tread (by gravel standards) that roll very efficiently.

Driving efficiency is rarely tested, as it requires a powered wheel, rather than a powered drum, to observe the effect of shear forces in the lugs. Even this would be an inadequate test, though, as it doesn't capture the interaction with the dirt. A sticky compound loses a lot of energy to deformation and would test poorly in a lab with a powered wheel, yet it's likely to have a lower slip rate on dirt, which helps the driving efficiency - and it reduces the chance of complete slippage, which is yet another thing not captured by a lab test. One thing is certain, though: a low-rebound compound on a rear tire is super slow, especially if the lugs deform considerably. If you've ever tried pedaling with a Maxxis Wetscream, DH casing, 40a Slow Reezay compound on the rear ... it's something special.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 11:48 Quote
I pedalled dh22s front and rear for a while. My maxxgrip dh casing assegai feels like a trail tire in comparison.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 11:53 Quote
I'm sure people who used 4-ply Intense / Vee casings would also like to pipe up! Your Maxxgrip uses somewhat higher-rebound 42a in the centre, layered over high-rebound 70a. It's a lot faster than full-thickness 40a SRY.

The point about the Slow Reezay Wetscreams is that they were a pedaling nightmare, especially on the rear, while Minions and the original High Roller weren't as terrible, especially on very steep or loose terrain, because the traction partially made up for the hysteresis.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 12:15 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Didn't someone do a comparison test where they rode a longer travel (160mm or 170mm) Enduro bike a few times on the clock with a "lightweight build" and "normal build" and a "dual crown build" and they found that on rough tracks, the dual crown setup was consistently faster, and basically no different on climbs?

It might have been Chris Porter on a Geometron.

Rulezman suspension guy on the youtube tv did. Good video.

https://youtu.be/5LxYM8IOI3Q

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 12:37 Quote
nubbs wrote:
PHeller wrote:
Didn't someone do a comparison test where they rode a longer travel (160mm or 170mm) Enduro bike a few times on the clock with a "lightweight build" and "normal build" and a "dual crown build" and they found that on rough tracks, the dual crown setup was consistently faster, and basically no different on climbs?

It might have been Chris Porter on a Geometron.

Rulezman suspension guy on the youtube tv did. Good video.

https://youtu.be/5LxYM8IOI3Q

I was just about to post this. Dude is pretty quirky but he goes through an insane amount of trouble to make this test as objective as possible. Really impressive.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 14:48 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
I can type out my usual rant again for anyone who hasn't heard it in the past couple days. A pound is 0.5% of total mass, upper limit of nine seconds on a half-hour climb, could be as little as 5 seconds in actual conditions, etc.

Heh, I don't believe this in the slightest.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 14:56 Quote
I thought that could be the one PHeller was referencing, but it didn't quite fit as it was only two builds and the only changes were the weight and stiffness of the fork via singe-crown vs. dual-crown. It's a really good test and yeah, he went to a tremendous amount of effort.

Note that the theoretical time difference discussed in the video is just the "upper limit" number I often discuss, which is the ratio of masses for the set-ups being compared. The video does mention this is for "medium to steep climbs", which mostly takes air resistance out of the calculation. It doesn't factor in any other sources of energy loss, so it's still a slight overestimation of the impact of reduced mass. It's in the ballpark, though, and the testing showed that variability of the rider's performance overshadows the effects of is large enough to mask the effects of variables that many people overestimate.


iggzdaloc wrote:
R-M-R wrote:
I can type out my usual rant again for anyone who hasn't heard it in the past couple days. A pound is 0.5% of total mass, upper limit of nine seconds on a half-hour climb, could be as little as 5 seconds in actual conditions, etc.

Heh, I don't believe this in the slightest.

What do you believe?

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 19:25 Quote
NorCalNomad wrote:
Circe wrote:
Your SX is still one of my all time favorite builds. That bike in general was so good. I don’t want to look at the geo and realize how terrible it actually was!

We got away with silly bikes back then. Pretty sure I didn’t ride up hills at the time. At the bottom of the run, I strapped my full face to my backpack, cracked a beer, and pushed up 17 turns. I swear Riding Downieville on a Blindisde with a 40 up front was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. Or at least it felt like it at the time!

Those were good times. Now it’s not a big ride if you don’t do at least 3k of climbing. Both eras where fun.

Every time I feel like I want to get an old SX Trail for nostalgia I have to remind myself how dated the geo will be. And some of those Downieville uphills on that thing must have been brutal lol

SX Trail was one of my favorite bikes. Pretty much like an early Stumpjumper EVO. Mine was a heavy beast but it was a lot of fun.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 20:33 Quote
66, LG1, XTR, Saint, Thompson, and telescoping seatpost...on a SX Trail. f*ck yeah Salute

Posted: Apr 12, 2021 at 7:50 Quote
crs-one wrote:
whattheheel wrote:
I bought some of the new Crank Bros Stamp shoes and I am in f*cking love!!! Nice sturdy toe box, cool little heel gripper, and I love their little shoe lace stash pocket on the tongue!! I was a Five Ten whore but no more!! I couldn't try them on but they run a little smaller size wise than 5.10 so try on the next size up if you can but I will definitely be ordering a set of the BOA version too.

I also have these. Big fan so far. Got the Leatt Aaron Chase shoes inbound next.

I've put in a few rides in on each now. Kona Wah Wah 2 composite and Deity Deftraps on the MTB and street bike respectively, Stamp Boa and Lace in different sizes and then the AC shoes.

The Stamps fit pretty well and my size in Vans ended up being the ideal size for those. There is absolutely no toe box padding, so definitely make sure the fit is bang-on. The tread on the sole is clearly designed for a pedal (Crank Bros Stamp specifically) to sit in the usual spot, spindle under the ball of your foot more or less. Lots of beefy blocks there. Unfortunately I have the habit of standing way forward, so the Wah Wah's pins have made pretty quick work of the sole around the arch. We'll see how long they ultimately last. Skinny, well-ventilated, not as ugly as most MTB shoes.

The Leatts are definitely more along the lines of a 2007ish skate shoe (which is a good thing to me) in terms of padding and design. Unfortunately this means they're wide as f*ck. Back in 2007ish when I last had bless comfy shoes like these, this wasn't a problem...a few years of riding clipped in on road q-factor cranks has trained me to stand as far in as possible, and the Leatts get caught on my cranks while pedaling sometimes. HOWEVER, super comfy, tons of padding everywhere including that crucial inner ankle, and a sole that looks like Vans so should probably work alright.

tl;dr If you stand like a roadie get the Stamps, if you've ever owned an Offspring t-shirt get the ACs.

Mod Plus
Posted: Apr 12, 2021 at 15:24 Quote
crs-one wrote:
crs-one wrote:
whattheheel wrote:
I bought some of the new Crank Bros Stamp shoes and I am in f*cking love!!! Nice sturdy toe box, cool little heel gripper, and I love their little shoe lace stash pocket on the tongue!! I was a Five Ten whore but no more!! I couldn't try them on but they run a little smaller size wise than 5.10 so try on the next size up if you can but I will definitely be ordering a set of the BOA version too.

I also have these. Big fan so far. Got the Leatt Aaron Chase shoes inbound next.

I've put in a few rides in on each now. Kona Wah Wah 2 composite and Deity Deftraps on the MTB and street bike respectively, Stamp Boa and Lace in different sizes and then the AC shoes.

The Stamps fit pretty well and my size in Vans ended up being the ideal size for those. There is absolutely no toe box padding, so definitely make sure the fit is bang-on. The tread on the sole is clearly designed for a pedal (Crank Bros Stamp specifically) to sit in the usual spot, spindle under the ball of your foot more or less. Lots of beefy blocks there. Unfortunately I have the habit of standing way forward, so the Wah Wah's pins have made pretty quick work of the sole around the arch. We'll see how long they ultimately last. Skinny, well-ventilated, not as ugly as most MTB shoes.

The Leatts are definitely more along the lines of a 2007ish skate shoe (which is a good thing to me) in terms of padding and design. Unfortunately this means they're wide as f*ck. Back in 2007ish when I last had bless comfy shoes like these, this wasn't a problem...a few years of riding clipped in on road q-factor cranks has trained me to stand as far in as possible, and the Leatts get caught on my cranks while pedaling sometimes. HOWEVER, super comfy, tons of padding everywhere including that crucial inner ankle, and a sole that looks like Vans so should probably work alright.

tl;dr If you stand like a roadie get the Stamps, if you've ever owned an Offspring t-shirt get the ACs.

what if I ride in JNCO jeans?

Posted: Apr 12, 2021 at 16:14 Quote
Knock off air force ones from Payless.

Posted: Apr 12, 2021 at 21:50 Quote
I am so glad JNCOs faded away into history, but the baggy jeans fad definitely left its mark on people of that generation who would forever scorn the skinny jeans that followed. There was like the pre-JNCO jeans generation (now 40), the JNCO generation 37-35, then the skinny jeans generation 35-30.

I still morn the loss of low rise skinny. This new high rise thing has removed all other options from the marketplace (for women at least.)

Posted: Apr 13, 2021 at 13:00 Quote

Absolute Black Oval Ring 30T


 
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