Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 17:54 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
What's insane is that people who have literally no f*cking clue how taxes work are stupid enough to read this shit, believe, and then repeat it. If you're ignorant about how tax revenue works, then just don't talk about it... but stop pretending you know enough to have an opinion when the only thing you know comes from a biased propagandist article that serves your confirmation bias.

Amazon paid more than $2.5 BILLION in corporate taxes in 2018 despite showing up on your list of companies that paid no income taxes... you know why, because income taxes are fairly meaningless in comparison to corporate taxes, especially when they can be offset by things like R&D, stock awards, tax credits, depreciation, etc. That holds true for all the rest of the companies on your list that "drives you crazy."

The amount of bad info you lot are throwing about really says a lot about the financially illiterate state of young adults today.
Not sure where you are getting your figure of >$2.5B in taxes in 2018 alone. If you read the article, there is a direct quote from Amazon itself which acknowledges they paid roughly that amount over 3 years: "Amazon pays all the taxes we are required to pay in the U.S. and every country where we operate, including paying $2.6 billion in corporate tax and reporting $3.4 billion in tax expense over the last three years”. Tough to say what their true effective cash tax rate is because as you note, there is clearly a difference between income and corporate taxes, and it can be difficult to determine a company's true effective tax rate given non-cash/subjective/undisclosed expenses, investment credits, loss carryforwards, etc..

So fair enough - let's write that article off as a bad example. I should have done a better job of expressing frustration around legally permissible, but ethically questionable, practices used to shift a company's tax burden from where it operates to a lower tax rate jurisdictions for no (legitimate business) purpose other than tax avoidance. Something like setting up a HQ in the Virgin Islands, and then charging management/royalty fees back to the operating company to reduce / eliminate profits in the higher tax rate jurisdiction. Yes, there are tax treaties, transfer pricing rules, and GAAR measures in place to discourage/penalize this, but they are not always effective.

That leaves a bad taste in my mouth as the corporation is effectively reducing the taxes it pays to support programs in the communities in which it operates, which help the customers the business depends on to generate its revenue. Of course there is more nuance than that - not that simple for online business selling into multiple states, etc. Genuinely curious as to your thoughts on this as I haven't given it much thought prior to this discussion.

To be clear, while I'm not a 1%er, I am lucky/privileged beyond belief by pretty much any standard. I have also pursued higher education and a high stress, high income career because I don't want to toil at minimum wage forever just to scrape by. My career depends on a healthy economy and business environment that encourages entrepreneurship and investment. I do believe capitalism is a highly effective way to run the world (arguably the most), but there are some things that just seem wrong to me or leave me scratching my head...

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 17:58 Quote
I'm not saying that they should pay every mechanic way more than they are now. I'm saying they should pay highly-experienced seasoned mechanics more because their jobs are more demanding. Odds are, those highly skilled mechanics are probably already working in high end shops that have a higher overall store profit margin.

Also, I feel like if a shop is willing to hire someone who's been a mechanic for 20+ years, they should be prepared to pay them accordingly.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 18:14 Quote
scotteh wrote:
Not sure where you are getting your figure of >$2.5B in taxes in 2018 alone. If you read the article, there is a direct quote from Amazon itself which acknowledges they paid roughly that amount over 3 years: "Amazon pays all the taxes we are required to pay in the U.S. and every country where we operate, including paying $2.6 billion in corporate tax and reporting $3.4 billion in tax expense over the last three years”. Tough to say what their true effective cash tax rate is because as you note, there is clearly a difference between income and corporate taxes, and it can be difficult to determine a company's true effective tax rate given non-cash/subjective/undisclosed expenses, investment credits, loss carryforwards, etc..

So fair enough - let's write that article off as a bad example. I should have done a better job of expressing frustration around legally permissible, but ethically questionable, practices used to shift a company's tax burden from where it operates to a lower tax rate jurisdictions for no (legitimate business) purpose other than tax avoidance. Something like setting up a HQ in the Virgin Islands, and then charging management/royalty fees back to the operating company to reduce / eliminate profits in the higher tax rate jurisdiction. Yes, there are tax treaties, transfer pricing rules, and GAAR measures in place to discourage/penalize this, but they are not always effective.

That leaves a bad taste in my mouth as the corporation is effectively reducing the taxes it pays to support programs in the communities in which it operates, which help the customers the business depends on to generate its revenue. Of course there is more nuance than that - not that simple for online business selling into multiple states, etc. Genuinely curious as to your thoughts on this as I haven't given it much thought prior to this discussion.

To be clear, while I'm not a 1%er, I am lucky/privileged beyond belief by pretty much any standard. I have also pursued higher education and a high stress, high income career because I don't want to toil at minimum wage forever just to scrape by. My career depends on a healthy economy and business environment that encourages entrepreneurship and investment. I do believe capitalism is a highly effective way to run the world (arguably the most), but there are some things that just seem wrong to me or leave me scratching my head...
I'm getting it from memory of shareholder statements after having already had this argument with other anti-wealth lefties throughout the election cycle. I'm not sure what the "$3.4 billion in tax expense over the last three years" refers to but the $2.6 billion in corporate taxes sounds accurate for 2018, most of which was payroll taxes and state taxes. Payroll taxes alone for 2019 were $2.4 billion and change.

Regardless, I'd like to hear how even if we spread that across three years as you're claiming, how does that equate to people earning $30k paying more in taxes?

And that's just another bad faith attempt at a strawman argument... Amazon isn't setting up shell companies and virgin island headquarters. They're accelerating depreciation and writing off stock awards and buying tax credits. This is the same stupid shit as when people tried to claim Trump only paid $750 in taxes despite the fact that he used more than $7.4 MILLION in tax credits as payment. It's really just varying degrees of people blathering on about how they don't understand the tax codes used by corporations and wealthy people. But the idea that they're not paying their share is idiotic and they pay the overwhelming majority of tax revenue.


Beyond that, it's agreed upon by virtually every economist that increases in corporate taxes aren't born by some nebulous corporate entity but rather by workers and customers so when you lot complain about this shit, you're really just saying you want to be taxed more. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2021/04/02/who-pays-the-corporate-income-tax/?sh=126e4dca58ab

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 18:16 Quote
seraph wrote:
I'm not saying that they should pay every mechanic way more than they are now. I'm saying they should pay highly-experienced seasoned mechanics more because their jobs are more demanding. Odds are, those highly skilled mechanics are probably already working in high end shops that have a higher overall store profit margin.

Also, I feel like if a shop is willing to hire someone who's been a mechanic for 20+ years, they should be prepared to pay them accordingly.
I can agree with that... and that's largely why I feel like experienced mechs need to divest themselves from traditional bike shop models, because most shops can't support the type of service work that facilitates that wage structure. A group of mechanics setting up a boutique shop that's focused on service and 'to order' sales rather than an on-hand stocked model, geared towards customers who know what they want to buy but need fitting services and custom build services and maintenance on high-end gear makes sense imo.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 19:03 Quote
One advantage to mechanics not being tied to retail would be less bitching about where customers got their parts.

Of course, that would also mean the mechanics would lose out on EP deals.

What would be a bind would be scenarios where you do buy parts at a retail store, have issues, and expect the store to install or warranty. Stores would still need mechanics, but mechanics don’t need stores. That’s just it, the industry has gotten this idea that every mechanic at a store needs $30hr, when in reality they need a single master mechanics and a bunch of high school flat fixers.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 19:29 Quote
PHeller wrote:
in reality they need a single master mechanics and a bunch of high school flat fixers.
This 100%

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 20:26 Quote
PHeller wrote:
One advantage to mechanics not being tied to retail would be less bitching about where customers got their parts.

Of course, that would also mean the mechanics would lose out on EP deals.

What would be a bind would be scenarios where you do buy parts at a retail store, have issues, and expect the store to install or warranty. Stores would still need mechanics, but mechanics don’t need stores. That’s just it, the industry has gotten this idea that every mechanic at a store needs $30hr, when in reality they need a single master mechanics and a bunch of high school flat fixers.

Not high volume shops though. When I was working at my last job, we all needed to be able to do high-level wrenching. There was a designated service manager who wrote up most of the work orders and assigned repairs to each technician, but each tech was expected to be able to work on bikes as expensive as $15k or more. We had 1 or 2 groms who would come in on the weekends and help us with walk-ins, but during the week we were churning out tune ups and custom builds that often required high end knowledge. Not to mention all the work on e-bikes we had to do (thanks Specialized) which was usually at least a wiring harness or motor replacement once a week.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 20:36 Quote
seraph wrote:
PHeller wrote:
One advantage to mechanics not being tied to retail would be less bitching about where customers got their parts.

Of course, that would also mean the mechanics would lose out on EP deals.

What would be a bind would be scenarios where you do buy parts at a retail store, have issues, and expect the store to install or warranty. Stores would still need mechanics, but mechanics don’t need stores. That’s just it, the industry has gotten this idea that every mechanic at a store needs $30hr, when in reality they need a single master mechanics and a bunch of high school flat fixers.

Not high volume shops though. When I was working at my last job, we all needed to be able to do high-level wrenching. There was a designated service manager who wrote up most of the work orders and assigned repairs to each technician, but each tech was expected to be able to work on bikes as expensive as $15k or more. We had 1 or 2 groms who would come in on the weekends and help us with walk-ins, but during the week we were churning out tune ups and custom builds that often required high end knowledge. Not to mention all the work on e-bikes we had to do (thanks Specialized) which was usually at least a wiring harness or motor replacement once a week.

You definitely do need more than 1 "master" at a real bike business that makes turns and at a good margin. Used to be a big crew of us in my old shop during the summer. 10+ years wrenching for most of them. They quick and pro, but I wasn't able to get them paid at $30 and hour that's for sure. Close to that but nope, it is a bike shop not a ford dealer etc.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 20:44 Quote
See I don’t see the work to be that complex that a master mechanic is required. Just because the bike is expensive doesn’t mean the work needs to be.

I am what I would consider competent and I can do everything on my bike suspension included. I send in suspension because it’s not worth my time if I don’t get it right.

I can true a wheel, install tune a derailleur rebuild a seat post (not reverb) etc

Ebikes add an additional wrinkle and I could see them being a pain to diagnose but are you repairing the non functional parts or just replacing them.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 21:03 Quote
I don't see why you would need more than 1 "master" mechanic... you need one dude who can do complex shit, stays up to date on leading edge tech, knows how to work on suspension and build wheels and then you need some dudes who can put bikes together and change tubes and tires and adjust derailleurs.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 21:32 Quote
Recommendations on a short/low stack height saddle? I’m not finding this to be a readily published figure. My saddle is slammed all the way, and I’m looking at either that or 165 cranks for proper leg extension without going to a dropper with less drop.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 21:38 Quote
dirtnapped wrote:
Recommendations on a short/low stack height saddle? I’m not finding this to be a readily published figure. My saddle is slammed all the way, and I’m looking at either that or 165 cranks for proper leg extension without going to a dropper with less drop.
Like as in distance between saddle rails and seating surface? I'm not sure I've ever seen that listed for a saddle. What are you running now and how much lower are you hoping to get, can't imagine you'll be able to find more than maybe 5-10mm there unless you go to something road oriented with minimal padding.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 21:45 Quote
Correct, from the rails to the seating surface. I’m currently using a Charge Spoon, and I am after 5-10mm. I’m ok with minimal padding as long as the shape fits.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 22:12 Quote
dirtnapped wrote:
Correct, from the rails to the seating surface. I’m currently using a Charge Spoon, and I am after 5-10mm. I’m ok with minimal padding as long as the shape fits.

I think you’d literally have to measure them individually in the flesh. But like BBLB said, I don’t think there’s a large variation. Based on side profiles, I feel like a WTB Silverado is pretty low in stack, but that’s not much to go on.

Posted: Oct 21, 2021 at 22:15 Quote
chunter wrote:
dirtnapped wrote:
Correct, from the rails to the seating surface. I’m currently using a Charge Spoon, and I am after 5-10mm. I’m ok with minimal padding as long as the shape fits.

I think you’d literally have to measure them individually in the flesh. But like BBLB said, I don’t think there’s a large variation. Based on side profiles, I feel like a WTB Silverado is pretty low in stack, but that’s not much to go on.
Good suggestion... as mountain saddles go I think that's about as low as you'll find.


 
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