Got Any DH Questions? Ask Them Here

PB Forum :: Downhill
Got Any DH Questions? Ask Them Here
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flag GregWellard
Posted: Jul 3, 2019 at 14:23 Quote
Its a 35mm stem. I was wondering how a longer one would affect my ride and about whether its worth buying a reach adjust headset
flag DuelingBanjos
Posted: Jul 3, 2019 at 15:22 Quote
GregWellard wrote:
Its a 35mm stem. I was wondering how a longer one would affect my ride and about whether its worth buying a reach adjust headset

Def try 50mm stem first. I run short 35mm stem on my all mtn bike but prefer longer 50mm for dh.

Downhill bike's head angle is usually around 63°, i tried shorter stem but didn't like it, it's harder to properly put weight over front wheel - it's already way out in the front because of the slack head angle and longer 200mm fork, at least that's how i felt. You might be different but 50mm stem is a sweet spot for dh bikes for a reason.
flag DuelingBanjos
Posted: Jul 3, 2019 at 15:29 Quote
About reach adjuster headset...its def worth getting one if you feel like you're close to what you want but not quite there and need these few extra mms.

My bike has tapered headtube 44/56 so i was only able to gain 5mm, nontapered headtubes go up to 8mms.

It raises your bb height slightly though, not by much but it does. Lower cup of the reach adjuster is 15mm tall and it makes for a higher stack upfront.

All in all i am satisfied with the difference.
flag Loki87
Posted: Jul 3, 2019 at 16:37 Quote
Try a 50mm then. Personally i went back to 50mm for dh. Anything shorter just doesn´t feel right with a headangle sub 63.5 degrees.
Those 1,5cm will have a huge impact, so i´d rather play around with that before buying a whole new bike.
flag ThunderChunk
O+
Posted: Jul 3, 2019 at 17:36 Quote
Loki87 wrote:
Try a 50mm then. Personally i went back to 50mm for dh. Anything shorter just doesn´t feel right with a headangle sub 63.5 degrees.
Those 1,5cm will have a huge impact, so i´d rather play around with that before buying a whole new bike.

Hmmm that's strange because a longer stem with a slacker head angle is supposed to feel worse. Not as responsive and much slower to steer. Usually long stems are for steeper head angle. I tried 50 and couldn't do it. I run 40 but still want shorter.
flag Loki87
Posted: Jul 3, 2019 at 18:55 Quote
ThunderChunk wrote:
Loki87 wrote:
Try a 50mm then. Personally i went back to 50mm for dh. Anything shorter just doesn´t feel right with a headangle sub 63.5 degrees.
Those 1,5cm will have a huge impact, so i´d rather play around with that before buying a whole new bike.

Hmmm that's strange because a longer stem with a slacker head angle is supposed to feel worse. Not as responsive and much slower to steer. Usually long stems are for steeper head angle. I tried 50 and couldn't do it. I run 40 but still want shorter.

Not really. that´s only if the responsiveness due to radius is the only reasoning you apply.
For one, you might simply prefer steering to be not as snappy. Many people can´t handle dh bikes, especially at lower speeds due to the floppy steering caused by the slack HA when making tight turns. You know, when the bike feels like it´s collapsing on itself. A shorter stem will reinforce that feeling.

Another reason this is not true for any individual is that not everyone has the same kind of riding style, or in this case steering habits.
I for example tend to turn hard on my bars, therefore i prefer a slower responding front as with anything more twitchy i end up overcooking even big radius turns.
Same reason different people prefer different headangles. Some are more precise with their inputs to the bike and can handle a steeper HA, some prefer to instead muscle around a slacker HA.

Another aspect is that the longer stem puts pressure closer to the axle. You´re not steering from behind like with a shorter stem, but rather rotate more above the axle which is the pivot point for your front wheel.
There should be an ideal spot where the interaction is optimal, and the slacker the HA the longer the stem needs to be in order to compensate and keep your theoretical steering column at the correct angle.
Hope you get what i mean Confused Big Grin

There´s not really a single truth when it comes to stems. It depends on how you like your steering to feel and how the stem length interacts with your specific frame to achieve the desired feeling.
Shorter stem = quick steering is just as true as short stem = unpredictable steering.
So you really just need to pick your poison there.

There´s also so many more things to consider.
For example, a short stem will not only make your cockpit shorter, but it´ll make it feel even shorter when you turn the bars as due to the different radius, the bar ends will move further to your body quicker due to the tighter radius created, creating a less stable cockpit so to speak.

I always chuckle when people say things like 5mm in stem length aren´t even relevant.
There are so many things the length of your stem determines in how your bike rides. It probably is one of THE MOST impactful components in regards to bike handling, so i find it especially funny when people dismiss a bike without trying it with different stem and/or bar lengths.
flag Brasher
Posted: Jul 3, 2019 at 19:36 Quote
it's all about body positioning in the end, ideally you want to be as centralised on the bike as possible.

The feeling of composure when you are on a bike that fits is hard to beat. The geometry has taken a long time to get there for us taller guys but having a 500mm reach and 1300+mm wheelbase is the best thing to happen to downhill in years!

so things like stem length, spacer stack and bar width are all important to set up for the individual. the frame Geo is the real MVP.

Devinci need to recreate the 2014 Wilson with 29 inch wheels and modern reach numbers. I'd ride that bad boy forever haha.
flag bdcain
Posted: Jul 3, 2019 at 21:31 Quote
will a risse racing fox 40 dm top crown
work on all fox 40's ?
diff years or diff rake ?
this what I was wanting it for

2013, 40-K, 40 26in F-S, 203 (G Ti), RC2, FIT, Blk, Gold Logo, 20mm, 1-1/8, Disc, 42mm Rake, DI
also my specs most i get but
f-s?
((g-TI) =green ti spring?))
DI?
CHEERS
flag GregWellard
Posted: Jul 4, 2019 at 7:29 Quote
The bike i bought is exceptionally good value but I'd rather have correct geo for what I'm doing. HA is 63.5° and reach is 470 with a wheelbase of 1260mm. If i were to sell the bike to someone for the same price I bought it for, would you reccomend getting another "longer" bike, maybe slacker i don't know but basically is my current bike adapted for me? I value going very fast more than slow speed maneuverability but I'm still looking for the most balanced bike possible. Ideal reach I was thinking would be 500 and and 1300mm+ of WB. Would I notice the difference when riding and would the potential benefit be worth investing into? I could quite easily sell the bike I have at the moment as it's still brand new and has the best specs possible imo.
flag Loki87
Posted: Jul 4, 2019 at 10:27 Quote
GregWellard wrote:
The bike i bought is exceptionally good value but I'd rather have correct geo for what I'm doing. HA is 63.5° and reach is 470 with a wheelbase of 1260mm. If i were to sell the bike to someone for the same price I bought it for, would you reccomend getting another "longer" bike, maybe slacker i don't know but basically is my current bike adapted for me? I value going very fast more than slow speed maneuverability but I'm still looking for the most balanced bike possible. Ideal reach I was thinking would be 500 and and 1300mm+ of WB. Would I notice the difference when riding and would the potential benefit be worth investing into? I could quite easily sell the bike I have at the moment as it's still brand new and has the best specs possible imo.

There´s really no objective way to tell.
For example, i really liked a friends Canyon Sender at 470mm, but i absolutely love my Devinci Wilson at 451mm.
Then there´s the stem length argument as well.
If you really prefer longer bikes i can see you wanting more than 470 for sure, but it´s not as if 470 is impossible to ride at your height either, especially if there´s only a 35mm stem on it.
If you really want something longer and won´t loose any money, get something else. Sounds like your mind is kinda set on a longer bike already and i suspect you won´t be happy with the current bike in the long run regardless. I would say something in the general vicinity of 490mm should be perfect for you and after testing a lot of different head angles, i settled on 63 degrees as my personal sweetspot. 62 is super nice on high speed, extremely rough stuff, but you get bushing bind on your forks which makes it kinda rough feeling on flowtrails and it also feels much more sluggish to handle. 63.5 is fine, but any steeper and things get too squirrely for my taste.
flag GregWellard
Posted: Jul 4, 2019 at 12:06 Quote
Thanks a lot. Any dh bikes you can recommend? I was thinking of the tues as it has good sizing and geo but im unsure about the spec on it. Maybe I'll get the sender but its still pretty short with the XL. Any other good value bikes?
flag GregWellard
Posted: Jul 4, 2019 at 12:19 Quote
Should I still add a 50mm stem to the bike if the HA is already "steep" 63.5°?
flag Loki87
Posted: Jul 4, 2019 at 12:30 Quote
GregWellard wrote:
Thanks a lot. Any dh bikes you can recommend? I was thinking of the tues as it has good sizing and geo but im unsure about the spec on it. Maybe I'll get the sender but its still pretty short with the XL. Any other good value bikes?
Personally i prefer the Senders suspension A LOT over the Tues.
The Tues feels kinda strange to me, even with a custom tuned damper we never got it to feel as smooth as some other bikes. It feels like it´s hanging up on hard square edge hits. It feels like the suspension only wants to work for impacts like drops, but not track the ground that well.
Even though i like the Sender a lot, personally i´d stay away from Canyon due to their spare parts policy. If you crack anything in an accident or are out of the warranty timeframe, you´re screwed as they won´t even sell you spare parts for their frames. Cracked a chainstay on a rockstrike? Time for a new frame.
Sorry, don´t have any real recommendations in that size range for price conscious frames atm.
flag Loki87
Posted: Jul 4, 2019 at 12:36 Quote
GregWellard wrote:
Should I still add a 50mm stem to the bike if the HA is already "steep" 63.5°?

There´s no reason not to.
As is said, it´s not really up to any specific measurements. You might like it, or you may not.
Given that i see a 450mm reach with 50mm stem as the absolute sweetspot for me at 1,80m, i´d say you kinda need the 50mm on that bike, because the 35mm stem puts you right within my cockpit measurements while being quite a bit taller.
Ask a friend to lend you his stem and see how it feels.

BTW, what frame are we talking about?
flag bikerboywill
Posted: Jul 4, 2019 at 13:13 Quote
I’d get an xxl tues if you can.

Or

If you like your current bike try a longer stem on it before getting rid

 


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