Got Any DH Questions? Ask Them Here

PB Forum :: Downhill
Got Any DH Questions? Ask Them Here
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Posted: Jul 6, 2019 at 5:19 Quote
matt-15 wrote:
Any tips for riding trail bikes in DH parks? I've rented a DH bike before and had no issues and was hitting some black flow trails at the end of my first day ever park riding, so I think my technique is fine. I recently bought a "trail" bike (150/140 travel F/R, 67* HTA) and plan to take it up to some lift-access DH parks near me (Whistler and Mt Washington). I mostly do flow trails, but may venture into some blue tech stuff. Obviously the main difference is gonna be less travel and steeper geometry, but anything else I should be aware of?
The normal trails that you can only pedal up are usually more gnarly than the ones in a Bike park, as they dont get taken care of and whased out.

Flow trails can be ridden with a HT so dont worry lterally all new trailbikes are burly Smile

Posted: Jul 6, 2019 at 5:27 Quote
GregWellard wrote:
Is it possible to just swap the 2 shocks round or would there be a lot more to take into account? I doubt it's that easy... if I were to swap them round would it even be possible?

Just get a new stem as loki said- Im also fiddeling with my Knolly Delirium.
Startet with lot of spacers and 30mm stem now only 1 small spacer and 50mm and it got way better- but still not done for now as on flat trails the bike has very shaky steering due to the 64.5 HA.

What you can do for cheap: Stem (25€ used) and maybe a reach adjustment headset from Superstars etc (55€)... Selling your bike immediately is Always a huge loss.
Just think about it: 3 years ago I was riding 407mm Reach with 180cm and it was a blast to ride..generally you adapt very fast Smile

Posted: Jul 6, 2019 at 8:18 Quote
GregWellard wrote:
Loki87 wrote:
GregWellard wrote:
Is it possible to just swap the 2 shocks round or would there be a lot more to take into account? I doubt it's that easy... if I were to swap them round would it even be possible?

Pretty sure the Propain uses a metric shock and the Tues is still ona regular one, right? So it wouldn´t fit in that case.
Also i really wouldn´t call the Tues´geometry progressive. It´s really as cookie cutter as it gets. Angles and measurements are really "conservative" and right in the middle. That´s not a bad thing, but progressive geometry to me is a Nicolai or something like that.
Speaking of Nicolai, if you want long and slack and great quality, why not sell the Propain frame with the shock and get a Nicolai? Of course you´d need to make sure all the other parts fit too.
I feel like you´re really just hellbent on something super long. I´m always for riding longer bikes, but i´m really not sure you´re coming at this from the right perspective at the moment.
Canyons aren´t super short and an XL would certainly fit you nicely. Buying for a height you might or might not reach is also kinda problematic, especially if you make 2-3cm extra body height into a big deal.
I mean, you´re certainly a big guy, but you´re not a freak of nature either. And it seems like you don´t really have any reference points to base your needs and wishes on.
Asking the PB users will only get you so far and in the end you end up with a bunch of differing opinions which might or might not be accurate. We don´t know you. We can´t make the decision based simply on the reach measurement of your current frame which you haven´t even really ridden or set up correctly.
I get you´re frustrated with the Propain for some reason, and i get wanting to get rid of it because of that. But you need to be careful to not blow this out of proportion and make sure you make an informed decision.
Getting a stem isn´t hard. You can buy a used one for super cheap. Try how that transforms your bike. Make sure you try to separate the different impressions. Do you have more room to work your upper body? Is steering improved/worse? Do you feel like it´s too big now? How did your posture change? Do you need to adjust suspension to feel comfortable on the longer cockpit? What about using the longer/shorter chainstay setting? Did you try the longer chainstays?
From all these things you can deduct information regarding your new frame purchase, but you need to be methodical about it. Simply buying the newest pinkbike favourite bike won´t get you anywhere.
Maybe also try renting another bike for a day with the reach you think would be ideal.

Very well said you're spot on. What worries me is that I regret my decision later and the main reason I would regret it imo is because if I were to race on it for example I would notice the sizing disadvantage (or wouldn't I). I'll defo try a longer stem. As I have very few reference points I was thinking other people with more experience could show me what Is best, but then I agree that choosing bikes and sizing is very subjective and my decision should be influenced by my own experiences and stuff. From what I read before coming onto this forum is that my bike needs to be longer. But then again I dont know if i really prefer long bikes. I'll stop waiting for propain to give me a proposition and I'll buy a 50mm stem. Thanks a lot

I´pretty certain 470mm reach with a 50mm stem is absolutely within a reasonable size range for your size. It´s not super big, but then again, i start seeing an end to the size craze.
I have always been a proponent of bigger bikes, but some things we start seeing from some manufacturers are taking it a little too far imho, so you need to be careful in what you put your trust.
As was said before, not long ago we rode stupidly short bikes. That´s of course no excuse for buying the wrong size bike now, but it should also put things in perspective and show that the size range isn´t as clear cut as it might seem, especially if you factor in how much you can adjust on the bike to further dial things in.
While you´re trying the new 50mm stem, i also suggest you try adding some spacers to your front in order to raise it up. Taller guys often get better results with higher cockpits because they don´t need to be as hunched over that way.
Also check your brake levers. If you run them more pointed towards the ground than horizontal, that can also increase the feeling of a bike being too short as it naturally forces your whole upper body more towards the front to get your wrists in line with the brake levers, leaving you with less real estate in the front than you might have with more horizontal brake levers. Try some extremes and see how that works out. Set them nearly horizontal, even if it might feel weird and see if that changes your perceived bike fit.
Also check your bar roll. If your bars are rolled too far backwards, that may effectively shorten your reach. Roll them forward a little, and see how the positioning of your grips changes and look for the point at which they´re the furtest away from you without being at a silly angle. If your bar has a lot of rise, having it rolled too far back can make a huge difference.
Lastly you can run a bar with less back sweep. That is of course something to really fine tune things, but it can also be noticeable. So if you or your friends have an old bar lying around with less backsweep, just bolt it on and see how it works out for you.
Lastly, have you set up your suspension with the correct sag and compression damping yet? Many people don´t do this, which results in a bike that collapses too much under the riders weight and especially in compressions, effectively shortening the reach in these critical situations where you actually want it to stay consistent in order to maintain control. Rear suspension setup is a critical element to bike fit as only with properly dialed rear suspension are you able to maintainbike control through your feet and legs. An overreliance on long reach is often times due to a rear suspension setup that isn´t able to support the rider enough, forcing him to shift pressure to the front and onto the arms. That of course isn´t ideal and leads to an imbalance in body positioning which many perceive as the bike having not enough cockpit length as a longer cockpit will help compensate for that unwanted upper body movement.

Posted: Jul 6, 2019 at 9:50 Quote
Loki87 wrote:
GregWellard wrote:
Loki87 wrote:


Pretty sure the Propain uses a metric shock and the Tues is still ona regular one, right? So it wouldn´t fit in that case.
Also i really wouldn´t call the Tues´geometry progressive. It´s really as cookie cutter as it gets. Angles and measurements are really "conservative" and right in the middle. That´s not a bad thing, but progressive geometry to me is a Nicolai or something like that.
Speaking of Nicolai, if you want long and slack and great quality, why not sell the Propain frame with the shock and get a Nicolai? Of course you´d need to make sure all the other parts fit too.
I feel like you´re really just hellbent on something super long. I´m always for riding longer bikes, but i´m really not sure you´re coming at this from the right perspective at the moment.
Canyons aren´t super short and an XL would certainly fit you nicely. Buying for a height you might or might not reach is also kinda problematic, especially if you make 2-3cm extra body height into a big deal.
I mean, you´re certainly a big guy, but you´re not a freak of nature either. And it seems like you don´t really have any reference points to base your needs and wishes on.
Asking the PB users will only get you so far and in the end you end up with a bunch of differing opinions which might or might not be accurate. We don´t know you. We can´t make the decision based simply on the reach measurement of your current frame which you haven´t even really ridden or set up correctly.
I get you´re frustrated with the Propain for some reason, and i get wanting to get rid of it because of that. But you need to be careful to not blow this out of proportion and make sure you make an informed decision.
Getting a stem isn´t hard. You can buy a used one for super cheap. Try how that transforms your bike. Make sure you try to separate the different impressions. Do you have more room to work your upper body? Is steering improved/worse? Do you feel like it´s too big now? How did your posture change? Do you need to adjust suspension to feel comfortable on the longer cockpit? What about using the longer/shorter chainstay setting? Did you try the longer chainstays?
From all these things you can deduct information regarding your new frame purchase, but you need to be methodical about it. Simply buying the newest pinkbike favourite bike won´t get you anywhere.
Maybe also try renting another bike for a day with the reach you think would be ideal.

Very well said you're spot on. What worries me is that I regret my decision later and the main reason I would regret it imo is because if I were to race on it for example I would notice the sizing disadvantage (or wouldn't I). I'll defo try a longer stem. As I have very few reference points I was thinking other people with more experience could show me what Is best, but then I agree that choosing bikes and sizing is very subjective and my decision should be influenced by my own experiences and stuff. From what I read before coming onto this forum is that my bike needs to be longer. But then again I dont know if i really prefer long bikes. I'll stop waiting for propain to give me a proposition and I'll buy a 50mm stem. Thanks a lot

I´pretty certain 470mm reach with a 50mm stem is absolutely within a reasonable size range for your size. It´s not super big, but then again, i start seeing an end to the size craze.
I have always been a proponent of bigger bikes, but some things we start seeing from some manufacturers are taking it a little too far imho, so you need to be careful in what you put your trust.
As was said before, not long ago we rode stupidly short bikes. That´s of course no excuse for buying the wrong size bike now, but it should also put things in perspective and show that the size range isn´t as clear cut as it might seem, especially if you factor in how much you can adjust on the bike to further dial things in.
While you´re trying the new 50mm stem, i also suggest you try adding some spacers to your front in order to raise it up. Taller guys often get better results with higher cockpits because they don´t need to be as hunched over that way.
Also check your brake levers. If you run them more pointed towards the ground than horizontal, that can also increase the feeling of a bike being too short as it naturally forces your whole upper body more towards the front to get your wrists in line with the brake levers, leaving you with less real estate in the front than you might have with more horizontal brake levers. Try some extremes and see how that works out. Set them nearly horizontal, even if it might feel weird and see if that changes your perceived bike fit.
Also check your bar roll. If your bars are rolled too far backwards, that may effectively shorten your reach. Roll them forward a little, and see how the positioning of your grips changes and look for the point at which they´re the furtest away from you without being at a silly angle. If your bar has a lot of rise, having it rolled too far back can make a huge difference.
Lastly you can run a bar with less back sweep. That is of course something to really fine tune things, but it can also be noticeable. So if you or your friends have an old bar lying around with less backsweep, just bolt it on and see how it works out for you.
Lastly, have you set up your suspension with the correct sag and compression damping yet? Many people don´t do this, which results in a bike that collapses too much under the riders weight and especially in compressions, effectively shortening the reach in these critical situations where you actually want it to stay consistent in order to maintain control. Rear suspension setup is a critical element to bike fit as only with properly dialed rear suspension are you able to maintainbike control through your feet and legs. An overreliance on long reach is often times due to a rear suspension setup that isn´t able to support the rider enough, forcing him to shift pressure to the front and onto the arms. That of course isn´t ideal and leads to an imbalance in body positioning which many perceive as the bike having not enough cockpit length as a longer cockpit will help compensate for that unwanted upper body movement.

Thanks a lot, first of all the suspension has not been set up properly yet. I have a 400 pound coil and I weigh around 65kg. (also I'll need to cut some L shaped allan keys shorter to be able to access the HSC and LSC as the frame gets in the way of any normal shaped tool, even the rebound is awkward). As I said before propain listed on their website and order confirmation the brand new boxxer ultimate, but I recieved the previous years fork (still very good) but they cut the streerer waaay to short and i dont think I'll be able to fit anything extra below the top crown. I have already rolled the bars forwards to try and get more rise and less backsweep. I think I have already found the perfect lever position for me. When I get back home I'll mess around with the sag on both ends. About how much do you have? Some people wanted the bike for the same price I paid for it, that's why I mentioned selling it here.

Posted: Jul 6, 2019 at 10:05 Quote
GregWellard wrote:
Loki87 wrote:
GregWellard wrote:


Very well said you're spot on. What worries me is that I regret my decision later and the main reason I would regret it imo is because if I were to race on it for example I would notice the sizing disadvantage (or wouldn't I). I'll defo try a longer stem. As I have very few reference points I was thinking other people with more experience could show me what Is best, but then I agree that choosing bikes and sizing is very subjective and my decision should be influenced by my own experiences and stuff. From what I read before coming onto this forum is that my bike needs to be longer. But then again I dont know if i really prefer long bikes. I'll stop waiting for propain to give me a proposition and I'll buy a 50mm stem. Thanks a lot

I´pretty certain 470mm reach with a 50mm stem is absolutely within a reasonable size range for your size. It´s not super big, but then again, i start seeing an end to the size craze.
I have always been a proponent of bigger bikes, but some things we start seeing from some manufacturers are taking it a little too far imho, so you need to be careful in what you put your trust.
As was said before, not long ago we rode stupidly short bikes. That´s of course no excuse for buying the wrong size bike now, but it should also put things in perspective and show that the size range isn´t as clear cut as it might seem, especially if you factor in how much you can adjust on the bike to further dial things in.
While you´re trying the new 50mm stem, i also suggest you try adding some spacers to your front in order to raise it up. Taller guys often get better results with higher cockpits because they don´t need to be as hunched over that way.
Also check your brake levers. If you run them more pointed towards the ground than horizontal, that can also increase the feeling of a bike being too short as it naturally forces your whole upper body more towards the front to get your wrists in line with the brake levers, leaving you with less real estate in the front than you might have with more horizontal brake levers. Try some extremes and see how that works out. Set them nearly horizontal, even if it might feel weird and see if that changes your perceived bike fit.
Also check your bar roll. If your bars are rolled too far backwards, that may effectively shorten your reach. Roll them forward a little, and see how the positioning of your grips changes and look for the point at which they´re the furtest away from you without being at a silly angle. If your bar has a lot of rise, having it rolled too far back can make a huge difference.
Lastly you can run a bar with less back sweep. That is of course something to really fine tune things, but it can also be noticeable. So if you or your friends have an old bar lying around with less backsweep, just bolt it on and see how it works out for you.
Lastly, have you set up your suspension with the correct sag and compression damping yet? Many people don´t do this, which results in a bike that collapses too much under the riders weight and especially in compressions, effectively shortening the reach in these critical situations where you actually want it to stay consistent in order to maintain control. Rear suspension setup is a critical element to bike fit as only with properly dialed rear suspension are you able to maintainbike control through your feet and legs. An overreliance on long reach is often times due to a rear suspension setup that isn´t able to support the rider enough, forcing him to shift pressure to the front and onto the arms. That of course isn´t ideal and leads to an imbalance in body positioning which many perceive as the bike having not enough cockpit length as a longer cockpit will help compensate for that unwanted upper body movement.

Thanks a lot, first of all the suspension has not been set up properly yet. I have a 400 pound coil and I weigh around 65kg. (also I'll need to cut some L shaped allan keys shorter to be able to access the HSC and LSC as the frame gets in the way of any normal shaped tool, even the rebound is awkward). As I said before propain listed on their website and order confirmation the brand new boxxer ultimate, but I recieved the previous years fork (still very good) but they cut the streerer waaay to short and i dont think I'll be able to fit anything extra below the top crown. I have already rolled the bars forwards to try and get more rise and less backsweep. I think I have already found the perfect lever position for me. When I get back home I'll mess around with the sag on both ends. About how much do you have? Some people wanted the bike for the same price I paid for it, that's why I mentioned selling it here.

Alright, see how it goes then once everything is setup correctly.
I ride about 30% in the back or whatever the manufacturer recommends and no more than 20% in the front.
The thing with the fork sucks really, especially cutting the steerer tube too short. Sadly a lot of manufacturers are guilty of that practice.

Posted: Jul 6, 2019 at 10:32 Quote
Also I havnt mentioned what was wrong with the bike when it arrived, but let's just say it was not ridable. So many weird creeks, scratches and damaged parts and the fact that nothing had been set up at all made me want to send it back. Propain doesn't accept returns apparently so I asked them for compensation for the damaged parts. After lots of waiting and different people answering the emails every time and asking the same questions they have completely stopped answering me so that's why I was going to sell the bike. Basically propain is great value but the quality is pretty poor imo, the frame has sticker decals instead of paint, the pieces aren't checked before mounting onto the bike, the customer service doesn't work (at least not in English) and a bunch of other things that make it hard for me to recommend the brand to anyone. :/ So whether it fits me or not I feel like the bike let me down. Basically I don't trust the quality of my bike and thats an issue in the long run and the main reason I'd like to start somewhere new...

Posted: Jul 6, 2019 at 12:02 Quote
NotNamed wrote:
GregWellard wrote:
Is it possible to just swap the 2 shocks round or would there be a lot more to take into account? I doubt it's that easy... if I were to swap them round would it even be possible?

Just get a new stem as loki said- Im also fiddeling with my Knolly Delirium.
Startet with lot of spacers and 30mm stem now only 1 small spacer and 50mm and it got way better- but still not done for now as on flat trails the bike has very shaky steering due to the 64.5 HA.

What you can do for cheap: Stem (25€ used) and maybe a reach adjustment headset from Superstars etc (55€)... Selling your bike immediately is Always a huge loss.
Just think about it: 3 years ago I was riding 407mm Reach with 180cm and it was a blast to ride..generally you adapt very fast Smile

Where should I look for a cheap stem? What site sells cheap 2nd hand bike parts?

Posted: Jul 6, 2019 at 12:15 Quote
GregWellard wrote:
NotNamed wrote:
GregWellard wrote:
Is it possible to just swap the 2 shocks round or would there be a lot more to take into account? I doubt it's that easy... if I were to swap them round would it even be possible?

Just get a new stem as loki said- Im also fiddeling with my Knolly Delirium.
Startet with lot of spacers and 30mm stem now only 1 small spacer and 50mm and it got way better- but still not done for now as on flat trails the bike has very shaky steering due to the 64.5 HA.

What you can do for cheap: Stem (25€ used) and maybe a reach adjustment headset from Superstars etc (55€)... Selling your bike immediately is Always a huge loss.
Just think about it: 3 years ago I was riding 407mm Reach with 180cm and it was a blast to ride..generally you adapt very fast Smile

Where should I look for a cheap stem? What site sells cheap 2nd hand bike parts?

Pinkbike.

Posted: Jul 6, 2019 at 13:00 Quote
stuffy1122 wrote:
GregWellard wrote:
NotNamed wrote:


Just get a new stem as loki said- Im also fiddeling with my Knolly Delirium.
Startet with lot of spacers and 30mm stem now only 1 small spacer and 50mm and it got way better- but still not done for now as on flat trails the bike has very shaky steering due to the 64.5 HA.

What you can do for cheap: Stem (25€ used) and maybe a reach adjustment headset from Superstars etc (55€)... Selling your bike immediately is Always a huge loss.
Just think about it: 3 years ago I was riding 407mm Reach with 180cm and it was a blast to ride..generally you adapt very fast Smile

Where should I look for a cheap stem? What site sells cheap 2nd hand bike parts?

Pinkbike.

And Bikemarkt.

Posted: Jul 10, 2019 at 15:33 Quote
Right nevermind I just found out that the stock stem is in fact already a 50mm one.

Posted: Jul 11, 2019 at 12:53 Quote
Hi,
Looking for some ideas on new knee / shin pads, currently using nuke proof critical but bit worn out now.
What’s everyone using that’s good for DH / park use?

Posted: Jul 11, 2019 at 20:34 Quote
Randomdeek wrote:
Hi,
Looking for some ideas on new knee / shin pads, currently using nuke proof critical but bit worn out now.
What’s everyone using that’s good for DH / park use?

Troy Lee method. I love mine. It's a 2 piece design. Sleeve for the knee with impact foam and a hard shell knee/shin pad on top. You can wear just the sleeve for pedal rides.

Posted: Jul 12, 2019 at 2:10 Quote
If you wanna feel like your knee would survive a nuclear strike --> Scott Grenade
Super Comfy and protection for days. A little bulkier than some of the lighter enduro pads though.
The shinpads are a great addition as they go way down to your feet. If you ever had a boulder punch a whole in your shin, you´ll appreciate them.


 
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