The Sexiest AM/FR/Enduro Hardtail Thread (Please read the opening post)

PB Forum :: Pinkbike Groups
The Sexiest AM/FR/Enduro Hardtail Thread (Please read the opening post)
Author Message
Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 21:18 Quote
slaker wrote:
Probably not the thread to be asking but just out of curiosity, if you move your seat forward does it affect climbing in a positive way as in using it to counter slack sta or does the actual sta have to be steeper to make climbing nicer?

Sorta ... it does calm it, but not quite the same....I have been on the rootdown for a couple months now with a 77 STA and I will say all the hardtails should have one. Power over cranks is insanely efficient. Riding posture is super comfortable on steeps and you can just power up switchbacks like a goat. I love this damn thing.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 21:45 Quote
piman wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the Honzo ST? I'm 6'5", so I need a longer reach for sure, and the XL has one of the longer reaches I have seen around.

I have a Honzo and it isn't my favorite bike I own. I don't think they have changed the geo since 2016 (still a 68 deg HTA). Also, the STA is not as steep as they say as it is an "estimate" based on some ideal seat height, not the actual angle. If you are 6'5" you may find you are hanging out way further over the back wheel than you expect. Finally, I think they spec it with a 120mm fork which is pretty lean on a "hardcore" hardtail. I run mine 130-140mm which helps with the HTA but only worsens the STA (which isn't that steep in the first place). I wouldn't stop my search at the Honzo personally. Moxie by pipedream?

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 21:50 Quote
slaker wrote:
Probably not the thread to be asking but just out of curiosity, if you move your seat forward does it affect climbing in a positive way as in using it to counter slack sta or does the actual sta have to be steeper to make climbing nicer?

Moving the seat forward has the same effect. The shorter the seat tube, the larger effect it has.Naturally the effect is limited by the length of the rails but probably 1-2 deg difference going from far back to all the way forwards.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 21:54 Quote
Yeah I built up a Honzo last year. Loved it for long day peddle fest rides. But it was twitchy on ruff steep downs and very undergunned. I would place it in a steel XC category rather than a HCHT one. Great bike, super fun but not what I was after.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 21:57 Quote
slaker wrote:
Probably not the thread to be asking but just out of curiosity, if you move your seat forward does it affect climbing in a positive way as in using it to counter slack sta or does the actual sta have to be steeper to make climbing nicer?

For average people a 1° change in ST angle effectively moves the seat 10-15mm. More for taller people, less for shorter people...
Moving the seat forward will do the exact same thing. And obviously shorten your effective TT length.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 21:59 Quote
I can tell you from experience it is not the same. I tried everything from seat angles up, down pushed back centered, forward. Nothing compares to a direct steep STA and a centered seat.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 22:13 Quote
DJ-24 wrote:
Who needs a 77 degree seattube angle on a hardtail?

Word. 77º on a HT steepens significantly when fork sags (unlike on full suss), so if you're running a long fork that's going to be 78-79º.

Maybe if you're a t-rex with a short torso it helps. Effective SA of 74º sagged works perfectly for me on a hardtail and ends up almost identical in use to the 77º SA on my full suss bike.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 22:16 Quote
When the fork sags you’re typically standing up charging, not sitting on your seat hanging on. It gets out of the way of your balls too.

Seriously go ride one for a bit. Game changer.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 23:05 Quote
If your fork is set up correctly it’s sagged 20-25% just with your weight on it. Sag isn’t to be confused with compression.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 23:09 Quote
sterlingmagnum wrote:
slaker wrote:
Probably not the thread to be asking but just out of curiosity, if you move your seat forward does it affect climbing in a positive way as in using it to counter slack sta or does the actual sta have to be steeper to make climbing nicer?

Sorta ... it does calm it, but not quite the same....I have been on the rootdown for a couple months now with a 77 STA and I will say all the hardtails should have one. Power over cranks is insanely efficient. Riding posture is super comfortable on steeps and you can just power up switchbacks like a goat. I love this damn thing.

76 or 77 on my Murmur and its all good. I wouldn't want slacker.

The only time it doesn't matter is on a single speed as you're standing most of the time when climbing.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 23:10 Quote
Mines 77deg, I'm 5ft9, like everyone else says the seated position powering up hills is awesome, but your right when that fork go' through its travel it will steepen, but with a longer wheel base bike it's not as drastic as it would be on a shorter wheelbase bike, plus like mentioned before you'll be standing/n the attack position anyways.

Also having a 77 Deg seat tube, lets short people ride bikes with a big reach 480 plus without a huge TTL

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 23:13 Quote
sterlingmagnum wrote:
I can tell you from experience it is not the same. I tried everything from seat angles up, down pushed back centered, forward. Nothing compares to a direct steep STA and a centered seat.

And I can tell you that your observation is perfectly in line with what I wrote.

What HT did you ride before the Rootdown? That green Bigwig, right? And you used the same fork. Looks like at least 150mm. So you overforked the Bigwig by 20mm. Geo chart states 74° eff ST angle for that thing with a 540mm fork (130mm in RS country). So the ST angle with your fork was 73° at best.
So 4° difference, as the Rootdown was designed for that fork travel.
You are taller than I am, so at your saddle height 4° difference in ST angle will push your seat 60mm forward.
That's way more than you can simulate by pushing around your seat on the post.
Add to that your different upper body position, compared to your old bike and just pushing the seat around. So it's natural that your Rootdown feels way different.

And now a sexy bike:

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 23:29 Quote
Yes but what you guys were claiming is that the seat moving does the exact same thing. Which it doesn’t. Tried it all on the Honzo at designed 120 as well, and the babah, and deedar and and and.

My initial comment was that it calms it at best. It wont simulate a true steeper STA.

And if sagging fork effectively puts it at 78-79 so be it. Even better. Realistically it helps even more when you’re powering up steep terrain.


How ever you want to slice it. But until we’ve tried something its pretty silly to claim something is or isn't necessary for everyone.

Now if you ride more tame flat trails? Sure it may be a bit much but i tend to not think so. You’d just have to actually try it out.

Posted: Jul 18, 2019 at 23:53 Quote
sterlingmagnum wrote:
Now if you ride more tame flat trails? Sure it may be a bit much but i tend to not think so. You’d just have to actually try it out.

I did and ended up not liking it. 74° for me.

Posted: Jul 19, 2019 at 0:02 Quote
pyromaniac wrote:
sterlingmagnum wrote:
Now if you ride more tame flat trails? Sure it may be a bit much but i tend to not think so. You’d just have to actually try it out.

I did and ended up not liking it. 74° for me.

Swarf?

This was for heinous and DJ.


 
Your subscriptions
no posts

Copyright © 2000 - 2019. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.022587
Mobile Version of Website