Mechanics Quick Question Thread [Ask Questions Here]

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Mechanics Quick Question Thread [Ask Questions Here]
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flag dragonaut
Posted: Feb 26, 2017 at 2:23 Quote
I've sent a claim to both CRC and Marzo.

We'll see. :/
flag oldmanDan
Posted: Feb 26, 2017 at 9:38 Quote
cmcrawfo wrote:
"You Don't need a torque Wrench"

"Air is the same as nitrogen"

I thought this forum was for mechanics. Not hacks.

A while a go, someone even said facing tools are not important tools for a quality shop to have.

Maybe we could start a hack mechanic question thread, for when you just need to scab some shit together.

When did I say " air is the same as nitrogen"?
Air is 78.8% nitrogen. Fact.
the reason why some manufacturers charge shocks with nitrogen is the other elements in the air (including moisture) can vary the heat generated within the shock.
Nitrogen alone has a very consistent pressure/temperature ratio, the other elements can vary in amounts giving an inconsistent compression rate of the gas.
In a manufacturers world, production consistency is key so by using nitrogen they can ensure that regardless of the air quality on any given day, the gas inside is always the same.
Some however just use air...
You may notice the difference, you may not.
If you really feel that 78.8% isn't enough nitrogen then that's fine, but if if was really an issue then why do some manufacturers still just use air?

And before you call me a hack and say I know nothing about nitrogen or gases, I use them daily....
flag cmcrawfo
Posted: Feb 26, 2017 at 11:21 Quote
oldmanDan wrote:
cmcrawfo wrote:
"You Don't need a torque Wrench"

"Air is the same as nitrogen"

I thought this forum was for mechanics. Not hacks.

A while a go, someone even said facing tools are not important tools for a quality shop to have.

Maybe we could start a hack mechanic question thread, for when you just need to scab some shit together.

When did I say " air is the same as nitrogen"?
Air is 78.8% nitrogen. Fact.
the reason why some manufacturers charge shocks with nitrogen is the other elements in the air (including moisture) can vary the heat generated within the shock.
Nitrogen alone has a very consistent pressure/temperature ratio, the other elements can vary in amounts giving an inconsistent compression rate of the gas.
In a manufacturers world, production consistency is key so by using nitrogen they can ensure that regardless of the air quality on any given day, the gas inside is always the same.
Some however just use air...
You may notice the difference, you may not.
If you really feel that 78.8% isn't enough nitrogen then that's fine, but if if was really an issue then why do some manufacturers still just use air?

And before you call me a hack and say I know nothing about nitrogen or gases, I use them daily....

I am sorry if you took offence to my post, but honestly, there is a shit tone of hack advice that gets thrown around here from some people who don't know a wrench from their ass hole.

Personally, I will continue to use Nitrogen when it is recommended by the manufacturer.. just like I will continue to used the recommended torque, fluids, bolts and what not. IMO the ability to follow the manufacturer's recommendations is a hallmark of a good mechanic. I am no chemist or engineer, perhaps you are .. and perhaps that's what gives you the ability waver outside of the recommended ranges.... Otherwise, someone just winging it out side of the specs cant be called anything but a hack.

and not to beat a dead horse, but If nitrogen is available, why not reccomend it? even if it's an either or scenario?
and if both gases are equal for your applications, why even bother stocking nitrogen?

I am not trying to disrespect you at all, and I totally appreciate the irony of me posting about hack advice when I clearly I am missing a piece of the picture. thanks.
flag chickenrunz
Posted: Feb 26, 2017 at 11:52 Quote
cmcrawfo wrote:
oldmanDan wrote:
cmcrawfo wrote:
"You Don't need a torque Wrench"

"Air is the same as nitrogen"

I thought this forum was for mechanics. Not hacks.

A while a go, someone even said facing tools are not important tools for a quality shop to have.

Maybe we could start a hack mechanic question thread, for when you just need to scab some shit together.

When did I say " air is the same as nitrogen"?
Air is 78.8% nitrogen. Fact.
the reason why some manufacturers charge shocks with nitrogen is the other elements in the air (including moisture) can vary the heat generated within the shock.
Nitrogen alone has a very consistent pressure/temperature ratio, the other elements can vary in amounts giving an inconsistent compression rate of the gas.
In a manufacturers world, production consistency is key so by using nitrogen they can ensure that regardless of the air quality on any given day, the gas inside is always the same.
Some however just use air...
You may notice the difference, you may not.
If you really feel that 78.8% isn't enough nitrogen then that's fine, but if if was really an issue then why do some manufacturers still just use air?

And before you call me a hack and say I know nothing about nitrogen or gases, I use them daily....

I am sorry if you took offence to my post, but honestly, there is a shit tone of hack advice that gets thrown around here from some people who don't know a wrench from their ass hole.

Personally, I will continue to use Nitrogen when it is recommended by the manufacturer.. just like I will continue to used the recommended torque, fluids, bolts and what not. IMO the ability to follow the manufacturer's recommendations is a hallmark of a good mechanic. I am no chemist or engineer, perhaps you are .. and perhaps that's what gives you the ability waver outside of the recommended ranges.... Otherwise, someone just winging it out side of the specs cant be called anything but a hack.

and not to beat a dead horse, but If nitrogen is available, why not reccomend it? even if it's an either or scenario?
and if both gases are equal for your applications, why even bother stocking nitrogen?

I am not trying to disrespect you at all, and I totally appreciate the irony of me posting about hack advice when I clearly I am missing a piece of the picture. thanks.

Hang on a sec - if something needs to be filled completely with nitrogen shouldn't it be done in a sealed chamber with no air? If you open up something, screw the cap on, add nitrogen, isn't the can already been filled with atmospheric air before you got out the nitrogen gun?
flag oldmanDan
Posted: Feb 26, 2017 at 13:17 Quote
chickenrunz wrote:
cmcrawfo wrote:
oldmanDan wrote:


When did I say " air is the same as nitrogen"?
Air is 78.8% nitrogen. Fact.
the reason why some manufacturers charge shocks with nitrogen is the other elements in the air (including moisture) can vary the heat generated within the shock.
Nitrogen alone has a very consistent pressure/temperature ratio, the other elements can vary in amounts giving an inconsistent compression rate of the gas.
In a manufacturers world, production consistency is key so by using nitrogen they can ensure that regardless of the air quality on any given day, the gas inside is always the same.
Some however just use air...
You may notice the difference, you may not.
If you really feel that 78.8% isn't enough nitrogen then that's fine, but if if was really an issue then why do some manufacturers still just use air?

And before you call me a hack and say I know nothing about nitrogen or gases, I use them daily....

I am sorry if you took offence to my post, but honestly, there is a shit tone of hack advice that gets thrown around here from some people who don't know a wrench from their ass hole.

Personally, I will continue to use Nitrogen when it is recommended by the manufacturer.. just like I will continue to used the recommended torque, fluids, bolts and what not. IMO the ability to follow the manufacturer's recommendations is a hallmark of a good mechanic. I am no chemist or engineer, perhaps you are .. and perhaps that's what gives you the ability waver outside of the recommended ranges.... Otherwise, someone just winging it out side of the specs cant be called anything but a hack.

and not to beat a dead horse, but If nitrogen is available, why not reccomend it? even if it's an either or scenario?
and if both gases are equal for your applications, why even bother stocking nitrogen?

I am not trying to disrespect you at all, and I totally appreciate the irony of me posting about hack advice when I clearly I am missing a piece of the picture. thanks.

Hang on a sec - if something needs to be filled completely with nitrogen shouldn't it be done in a sealed chamber with no air? If you open up something, screw the cap on, add nitrogen, isn't the can already been filled with atmospheric air before you got out the nitrogen gun?
@chickenrunz I don't think you understand how it works...
the chamber is already empty at the point the nitrogen is added.... there is no air in there!
It is put in to pressurise the damping fluid to stop foaming and cavitation.

@cmcrawfo I use nitrogen myself for ease of use and consistency in my shock reservoir. I have an almost unlimited supply and as such, it's easy for me.
Most people however, don't have access to it or can't warrant buying a huge bottle just to charge a shock maybe twice a year.
The amount of gas used in a reservoir is tiny and the difference between air and nitrogen wouldn't realistically be noticed by most riders. A dyno may tell a different story, but the main reason nitrogen is used, as I said before, is it is simply more consistent than air which changes moisture levels etc. every day.
Also, the moisture in the air could cause internal corrosion whilst still on a stockroom shelf, so they use nitrogen to ensure the shelf life of the product.
It is a debate, but if it really was that important, why aren't 'air' shocks filled with just nitrogen?...
flag riish
Posted: Feb 26, 2017 at 13:32 Quote
what he's saying is that the IFP contains normal air at atmospheric pressure before the nitrogen is added. unless it's been extracted and the IFP is at vacuum before nitrogen is added, it'll have a little air in the chamber.
flag Nobble
Posted: Feb 26, 2017 at 13:33 Quote
riish wrote:
what he's saying is that the IFP contains normal air at atmospheric pressure before the nitrogen is added. unless it's been extracted and the IFP is at vacuum before nitrogen is added, it'll have a little air in the chamber.
then purge it with nitrogen before you set the pressure?
flag iffy
Posted: Feb 26, 2017 at 13:33 Quote
I think he is saying there is air at atmospheric pressure unless it is assembled in a vacum, it is pressurised with nitrogen after.

edit: ha! you guys are fast.
flag rclugnut
O+
Posted: Feb 26, 2017 at 14:59 Quote
They may fill with the IFP having zero volume? since it is a floating piston? Or they could flow nitrogen in through a smaller filler tube to dispel the regular air then put in valve core and fill? Just thoughts...
flag shadow-flier
Posted: Feb 27, 2017 at 0:29 Quote
Hi all

Did my first bleed on a Guide R brake as the lever was 'squishy' and that was the recommendation I got. Having done it as per the video instructions, it doesn't seem to have made much difference. Is there anything else I shoukd be doing, is it worth doing another bleed, or do I just figure I'm a DIY hack and take it to tbe experts?
Cheers
flag el-booto
Posted: Feb 27, 2017 at 1:05 Quote
shadow-flier wrote:
Hi all

Did my first bleed on a Guide R brake as the lever was 'squishy' and that was the recommendation I got. Having done it as per the video instructions, it doesn't seem to have made much difference. Is there anything else I shoukd be doing, is it worth doing another bleed, or do I just figure I'm a DIY hack and take it to tbe experts?
Cheers

is it an S4 caliper? (uses the new "bleeding edge" fitting)
when you bleed it, can you get fluid from caliper end to the lever?

i found a pretty major problem on a 2017 guide R, OEM new from a 2017 operator. local kona dealer has found the same thing on the majority of operators they've unboxed too
flag chickenrunz
Posted: Feb 27, 2017 at 1:07 Quote
shadow-flier wrote:
Hi all

Did my first bleed on a Guide R brake as the lever was 'squishy' and that was the recommendation I got. Having done it as per the video instructions, it doesn't seem to have made much difference. Is there anything else I shoukd be doing, is it worth doing another bleed, or do I just figure I'm a DIY hack and take it to tbe experts?
Cheers

I had the impression guide brakes are supposed to be squishy unlike shimano when it bites hard at first sight.
flag shadow-flier
Posted: Feb 27, 2017 at 1:23 Quote
el-booto wrote:
shadow-flier wrote:
Hi all

Did my first bleed on a Guide R brake as the lever was 'squishy' and that was the recommendation I got. Having done it as per the video instructions, it doesn't seem to have made much difference. Is there anything else I shoukd be doing, is it worth doing another bleed, or do I just figure I'm a DIY hack and take it to tbe experts?
Cheers

is it an S4 caliper? (uses the new "bleeding edge" fitting)
when you bleed it, can you get fluid from caliper end to the lever?

i found a pretty major problem on a 2017 guide R, OEM new from a 2017 operator. local kona dealer has found the same thing on the majority of operators they've unboxed too

It's not an s4, just standard; and yeah fluid went through to the lever.

As to the squishiness, they were never as firm as the shimano brakes on my hardtail but i really noticed just how far back the lever was going after travelling with it to NZ. Prior to that I didnt have an issue with it
flag iffy
Posted: Feb 27, 2017 at 2:41 Quote
shadow-flier wrote:
Hi all

Did my first bleed on a Guide R brake as the lever was 'squishy' and that was the recommendation I got. Having done it as per the video instructions, it doesn't seem to have made much difference. Is there anything else I shoukd be doing, is it worth doing another bleed, or do I just figure I'm a DIY hack and take it to tbe experts?
Cheers

you can try removing them from the bike and hanging vertically to help trapped bubbles escape. lots of tapping caliper and lever (at different angles) to dislodge any pockets of trapped air in the castings.

did you de-gas the fluid and use stuff from a fresh bottle?
flag blazekelly
O+
Posted: Feb 27, 2017 at 4:45 Quote
Hey guys easy one for ya here. I'm looking to run a 1x10 using the sunrace 11-40 (or 11-42) casette. So my question is what derailuer to use?
I have a 10 spd zee derailuer on my other bike (shimano 10 spd casette) and really like it. Would this same derailuer work? Any other suggestions or input are appreciated.

 


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