Mechanics Quick Question Thread [Ask Questions Here]

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Mechanics Quick Question Thread [Ask Questions Here]
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Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 10:54 Quote
blackbeard5974 wrote:
SRAM XG-1180 11 Speed Cassette on my 2016 Stumpjumper FSR Elite 650b. 2 full years in CO on the bike, and now a full season down here in FL on it. Just took the cassette off for a really good cleaning and it is 'looking' worn. What i don't know is how worn is "too" worn? How do i know when it is time to look at replacing the cassette? Also, do I just replace with the same exact item or is there value in uprading? What would be an upgrade, and why? Really mysterious part of my mountain bike. Excited to learn more. Thank you.

My rule was if the cog teeth look like shark fins then it's time to change it or when It skips

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 11:15 Quote
So Shimano I spec ev, is it comparable with I spec ii. I want to run the new 8120 xt brakes but stay shimano 11 spd years.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 11:39 Quote
blackbeard5974 wrote:
SRAM XG-1180 11 Speed Cassette on my 2016 Stumpjumper FSR Elite 650b. 2 full years in CO on the bike, and now a full season down here in FL on it. Just took the cassette off for a really good cleaning and it is 'looking' worn. What i don't know is how worn is "too" worn? How do i know when it is time to look at replacing the cassette? Also, do I just replace with the same exact item or is there value in uprading? What would be an upgrade, and why? Really mysterious part of my mountain bike. Excited to learn more. Thank you.

Before we get to the cassette:

Your chain is meant to be the expendable component of the drivetrain. The chain elongates due to erosion of the pivots (not "stretching") and forces the sprockets to wear into a compatible shape. Try to match the rates at which all components change dimension with the techniques described below.

You can nearly double chain life by turning it "inside out" (disconnect it and flip the side that contacts the sprockets). Another good strategy is to remove it when the wear is slightly over 0.5% and replace it with a new chain. Run that chain (with inside-out flipping) until it's around 0.75%, then keep switching between the two chains every 0.25% wear until the drivetrain is shot (determined by poor shifting and/or derailment) - you can even use three chains, if you're super keen on maxing out the lifespan. If you're using a single chainring, expect to replace the ring before both chains are at 0.75% wear. This technique will triple the life of your cassette, relative to simply running one chain until the system fails.

A steel chainring will last two to three times as long as an aluminum chainring and preserve the rest of the components.

"Wet" lubes can work fairly well for chains, but "dry" or "wax" chain lubes are much better for cassette and chainring lifespan. My favourite is Rock n Roll Absolute Dry.

There are two phases of "death" for a cassette:

1. When it can no longer accept a new chain because the distance between teeth has become too large and a new chain gets "stuck" trying to span the distance. At this point, you have to use worn chains, but there's still plenty of life left if you rotate among a couple of progressively wearing chains.

2. When the whole system is so worn that shifting is garbage and the chain can pop off the sprockets. Nothing can save it at this point.

A top-of-the-line cassette will not shift better; it will only be lighter. The XG-1180 is a nice balance of weight reduction and price: diminishing returns kick in pretty hard above this level.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 12:09 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
blackbeard5974 wrote:
SRAM XG-1180 11 Speed Cassette on my 2016 Stumpjumper FSR Elite 650b. 2 full years in CO on the bike, and now a full season down here in FL on it. Just took the cassette off for a really good cleaning and it is 'looking' worn. What i don't know is how worn is "too" worn? How do i know when it is time to look at replacing the cassette? Also, do I just replace with the same exact item or is there value in uprading? What would be an upgrade, and why? Really mysterious part of my mountain bike. Excited to learn more. Thank you.

Before we get to the cassette:

Your chain is meant to be the expendable component of the drivetrain. The chain elongates due to erosion of the pivots (not "stretching") and forces the sprockets to wear into a compatible shape. Try to match the rates at which all components change dimension with the techniques described below.

You can nearly double chain life by turning it "inside out" (disconnect it and flip the side that contacts the sprockets). Another good strategy is to remove it when the wear is slightly over 0.5% and replace it with a new chain. Run that chain (with inside-out flipping) until it's around 0.75%, then keep switching between the two chains every 0.25% wear until the drivetrain is shot (determined by poor shifting and/or derailment) - you can even use three chains, if you're super keen on maxing out the lifespan. If you're using a single chainring, expect to replace the ring before both chains are at 0.75% wear. This technique will triple the life of your cassette, relative to simply running one chain until the system fails.

A steel chainring will last two to three times as long as an aluminum chainring and preserve the rest of the components.

"Wet" lubes can work fairly well for chains, but "dry" or "wax" chain lubes are much better for cassette and chainring lifespan. My favourite is Rock n Roll Absolute Dry.

There are two phases of "death" for a cassette:

1. When it can no longer accept a new chain because the distance between teeth has become too large and a new chain gets "stuck" trying to span the distance. At this point, you have to use worn chains, but there's still plenty of life left if you rotate among a couple of progressively wearing chains.

2. When the whole system is so worn that shifting is garbage and the chain can pop off the sprockets. Nothing can save it at this point.

A top-of-the-line cassette will not shift better; it will only be lighter. The XG-1180 is a nice balance of weight reduction and price: diminishing returns kick in pretty hard above this level.

This method will not work on the newer Shimano 11-speed chains though, as they are asymmetric.

Also the best chain "lube" is actually the full wax treatment in a crock pot. Easily lasts for 6-10 months.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 12:21 Quote
seraph wrote:
This method will not work on the newer Shimano 11-speed chains though, as they are asymmetric.

Also the best chain "lube" is actually the full wax treatment in a crock pot. Easily lasts for 6-10 months.

Yes, I know, but that's probably not what's being used on a 2016 Stumpjumper with XG-1180 cassette.

And yes, the full wax treatment is great, but I'm not convinced it lasts anywhere near that long. Most posts from people who use it report several hundred km to, at most, 2000 km between applications. That can be as little as a week or two for a high-mileage road rider.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 12:55 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
seraph wrote:
This method will not work on the newer Shimano 11-speed chains though, as they are asymmetric.

Also the best chain "lube" is actually the full wax treatment in a crock pot. Easily lasts for 6-10 months.

Yes, I know, but that's probably not what's being used on a 2016 Stumpjumper with XG-1180 cassette.

And yes, the full wax treatment is great, but I'm not convinced it lasts anywhere near that long. Most posts from people who use it report several hundred km to, at most, 2000 km between applications. That can be as little as a week or two for a high-mileage road rider.

If you do the Molten Speed Wax stuff, it lasts super long. I had mine on for about 5 months before I put a new chain on. I average about 50-60 miles a week.

And it's entirely possible that one could be running a Shimano 11-speed chain on an XG-1180 cassette.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 14:37 Quote
blackbeard5974 wrote:
SRAM XG-1180 11 Speed Cassette on my 2016 Stumpjumper FSR Elite 650b. 2 full years in CO on the bike, and now a full season down here in FL on it. Just took the cassette off for a really good cleaning and it is 'looking' worn. What i don't know is how worn is "too" worn? How do i know when it is time to look at replacing the cassette? Also, do I just replace with the same exact item or is there value in uprading? What would be an upgrade, and why? Really mysterious part of my mountain bike. Excited to learn more. Thank you.
one "upgrade" is to a wider range cassette (e13, Garbaruk, Sunrace, etc), if you can benefit from more gear range.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 15:06 Quote
seraph wrote:
If you do the Molten Speed Wax stuff, it lasts super long. I had mine on for about 5 months before I put a new chain on. I average about 50-60 miles a week.

And it's entirely possible that one could be running a Shimano 11-speed chain on an XG-1180 cassette.

That mileage makes more sense than the time estimate. When I was racing road, I averaged about that distance per day. Your numbers work out to about 1750 km, which is on the high end of what people have reported for wax treatments, but not totally out of line.

What caused you to replace the chain? Wear? Squeaking?

Yes, it's possible for a directional Shimano 11sp chain on this drivetrain. Note to OP: avoid directional Shimano chains; they're more hassle than they're worth and take away your options to max out drivetrain life. They do run quietly and shift nicely, though that's more of an issue with multiple chainrings.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 15:32 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
seraph wrote:
If you do the Molten Speed Wax stuff, it lasts super long. I had mine on for about 5 months before I put a new chain on. I average about 50-60 miles a week.

And it's entirely possible that one could be running a Shimano 11-speed chain on an XG-1180 cassette.

That mileage makes more sense than the time estimate. When I was racing road, I averaged about that distance per day. Your numbers work out to about 1750 km, which is on the high end of what people have reported for wax treatments, but not totally out of line.

What caused you to replace the chain? Wear? Squeaking?

Yes, it's possible for a directional Shimano 11sp chain on this drivetrain. Note to OP: avoid directional Shimano chains; they're more hassle than they're worth and take away your options to max out drivetrain life. They do run quietly and shift nicely, though that's more of an issue with multiple chainrings.

As a mechanic I also meticulously maintain my bike and chain, so I take care of my shit lol It makes it last.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 16:06 Quote
seraph wrote:
As a mechanic I also meticulously maintain my bike and chain, so I take care of my shit lol It makes it last.

Mechanics' bikes are either the best maintained or the worst, because they can't stand to look at one more bike after wrenching on customers' bikes all day!

What maintenance did you do on your chain while it was waxed? It sounds like you just waxed it once and didn't have to touch it for five months, then you replaced it.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 18:06 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
seraph wrote:
As a mechanic I also meticulously maintain my bike and chain, so I take care of my shit lol It makes it last.

Mechanics' bikes are either the best maintained or the worst, because they can't stand to look at one more bike after wrenching on customers' bikes all day!

What maintenance did you do on your chain while it was waxed? It sounds like you just waxed it once and didn't have to touch it for five months, then you replaced it.

I kept the rest of my drivetrain clean, which helped keep the chain clean. I put my cassette and chain ring in the solvent tank about once a week.

Posted: Jun 15, 2019 at 22:48 Quote
seraph wrote:
R-M-R wrote:
seraph wrote:
As a mechanic I also meticulously maintain my bike and chain, so I take care of my shit lol It makes it last.

Mechanics' bikes are either the best maintained or the worst, because they can't stand to look at one more bike after wrenching on customers' bikes all day!

What maintenance did you do on your chain while it was waxed? It sounds like you just waxed it once and didn't have to touch it for five months, then you replaced it.

I kept the rest of my drivetrain clean, which helped keep the chain clean. I put my cassette and chain ring in the solvent tank about once a week.

Impressive ... but I'm not sure this whole process is a time-saver!

Posted: Jun 16, 2019 at 0:39 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
seraph wrote:
R-M-R wrote:


Mechanics' bikes are either the best maintained or the worst, because they can't stand to look at one more bike after wrenching on customers' bikes all day!

What maintenance did you do on your chain while it was waxed? It sounds like you just waxed it once and didn't have to touch it for five months, then you replaced it.

I kept the rest of my drivetrain clean, which helped keep the chain clean. I put my cassette and chain ring in the solvent tank about once a week.

Impressive ... but I'm not sure this whole process is a time-saver!

It's a money saver, and time is money.

Posted: Jun 16, 2019 at 5:58 Quote
I have a set of 650b 2017 Traverse SLs here with bead bearings front and rear. Does anyone have a list of bearings needed to get them back to life?

I will be disassembling the caps and measuring the bearings with calipers, but to be sure it would be nice to have a confirmation from someone that knows.

Posted: Jun 16, 2019 at 8:39 Quote
Primoz wrote:
I have a set of 650b 2017 Traverse SLs here with bead bearings front and rear. Does anyone have a list of bearings needed to get them back to life?

I will be disassembling the caps and measuring the bearings with calipers, but to be sure it would be nice to have a confirmation from someone that knows.

I'm pretty sure the Traverse SL use 350 hub internals, at least they do in the back. So you're dealing with cartridge bearings, not loose ball. The bearings will have model numbers on them when you take the hub caps off.


 
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