does anybody else know the truth about global warming

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does anybody else know the truth about global warming
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Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 7:41 Quote
I didn't expect people to understand.

Dostoevsky on freedom:
bigquotesMan is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that great gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born.


I met a rural Peruvian woman on the weekend. She'd lost an eye and the use of her right hand to some disease or other. Couldn't go to the doctor because it cost the equivalent of about $110. She'll probably be dead within a few years. Had four kids.

Why don't you go tell her that that vote and freedom of speech will do her a world of good eh.

bigquotesFreedom in capitalist society always remains the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners.
Lenin on freedom.

A little off topic however.

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 8:19 Quote
It's freedom that has given you the right to go to Peru in the first place, it's freedom that allows scientists to develop ways of curing diseases, hell it's freedom that gives you the right to say that freedom is worth shit all. Quoting Lenin hardly proves anything: he ran an autocratic dictatorship where what he said went, no one had rights, dissent was not tolerate and you were told whether or not you were going to go to university and what job you were going to do, hardly any freedom there whatsoever: no freedom of choice, no freedom of speech and no freedom of mobility. What he said about freedom was more to stir up the proleteriat and gain support than his own views. I think you really need to sit down and count your blessings.

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 8:29 Quote
I think I do.

Your point about Lenin is spurious, you didn't address the issue at all, you addressed the person who said it - great big ad hominem fallacy right there. That quote holds 100% true.

If I had to rank things in order of importance, I'd put them like this:

1) people not starving or dying of easily preventable causes
2) everything else

You should read The Grand Inquisitor. It's very intsresting,

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 8:59 Quote
harriieee wrote:

If I had to rank things in order of importance, I'd put them like this:

1) people not starving or dying of easily preventable causes
2) everything else

You should read The Grand Inquisitor. It's very intsresting,

I completely agree and I think the way we do that is through freedom. There is soooooo much aid going to countries that need help but corrupt governments. Economic freedom is another thing that would help these countries/nations create wealth. If they had the freedom to property rights and to export and import goods they would have a huge advantage to raise these people out of poverty. In fact Hernado de Soto is from Peru and heads the institute for liberty and democracy in Lima and he has written books about how to liberate third world countries from poverty and subsequently disease.

Freedom from those government would help hundreds of thousands if not millions of people but instead they never get the help because they are oppressed by "their" government

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 11:25 Quote
marty660 wrote:
"A society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Ben Franklin

Then no one has any real "freedom". I can't talk about bombs in an airport without getting arrested, that's "freedom of speech" sacrificed for "national security". I can't feel free to hit you in the face, but it makes everyone else a little more secure.


Whambam, nice Lenin quotes there. The rich REALLY are the ones who have freedom, they just present us peasants with the illusion of it.

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 12:28 Quote
harriieee wrote:
I think I do.

Your point about Lenin is spurious, you didn't address the issue at all, you addressed the person who said it - great big ad hominem fallacy right there. That quote holds 100% true.

If I had to rank things in order of importance, I'd put them like this:

1) people not starving or dying of easily preventable causes
2) everything else

You should read The Grand Inquisitor. It's very intsresting,

It's not ad hominem if he's a hypocrite.

AMP, you're not a peasant. you are the elite.

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 12:33 Quote
Pretty rare Vince sighting....

Josh, I'd say that freedom hasn't done a particularly good jov of stopping people starving for the last 17,000 years, so I don't see why it will suddenly start doing a good job of it.

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 12:49 Quote
harriieee wrote:
Pretty rare Vince sighting....

Josh, I'd say that freedom hasn't done a particularly good jov of stopping people starving for the last 17,000 years, so I don't see why it will suddenly start doing a good job of it.

You think the past 17,000 years were years of freedom? There was no slavery, or oppression from the church or governments. I have no way of measuring freedom but studies measuring economic freedom show places like Hong Kong in the lead... 40 years ago Hong Kong was a slum and when Britain just let them be and only enforced the rule of law Hong Kong took off. It's GDP per capita is almost that of the US. In 30 years they went from a majority of poverty to a majority of wealth.

Kinda off topic but unless we can find a root reason as to why their is poverty and hunger then its impossible to address it properly. and I believe a lot of it has to do with the governments in these areas.

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 13:17 Quote
This discussion will get nowhere. There's just way too much depth to the topic. I suggest not even wasting he bandwidth lol

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 13:52 Quote
ledzeppie wrote:
This discussion will get nowhere. There's just way too much depth to the topic. I suggest not even wasting he bandwidth lol

and you think global warming discussion will Wink

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 14:01 Quote
gibson19 wrote:
ledzeppie wrote:
This discussion will get nowhere. There's just way too much depth to the topic. I suggest not even wasting he bandwidth lol

and you think global warming discussion will Wink

I think it will get farther than this one lol

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 14:13 Quote
gibson19 wrote:
Kinda off topic but unless we can find a root reason as to why their is poverty and hunger then its impossible to address it properly.

There is poverty because there is wealth. There is wealth because being on the top of the pile is in our core instinct.

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 14:27 Quote
Will to power.

That is all

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 15:41 Quote
ezekiel wrote:
There is poverty because there is wealth. There is wealth because being on the top of the pile is in our core instinct.

Boom.

My point was a little less than specific, I'll admit Josh. But the free market don't mean wealth for all anywhere other than the economics classroom.

Posted: Jul 15, 2010 at 16:17 Quote
harriieee wrote:
ezekiel wrote:
There is poverty because there is wealth. There is wealth because being on the top of the pile is in our core instinct.

Boom.

My point was a little less than specific, I'll admit Josh. But the free market don't mean wealth for all anywhere other than the economics classroom.

Absolutely.. I realize free market isn't gonna bring everyone out of poverty but I'm sure it'll help more than it will hurt. Especially considering they are all in poverty to begin with... and on top of that they need a government that helps them rather than steal the aid being sent to them


 
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