Avid XO Trail Brakes - Noisy Shudder - HELP

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Avid XO Trail Brakes - Noisy Shudder - HELP
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flag fran7802
Posted: Feb 21, 2013 at 10:23 Quote
Hi All,

I bought a new bike ...... http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/sjfsr/stumpjumperfsrexpertevo29#specs
....and well the brakes are making one hell of a noise, especially the rear brake. At first the front was ok, but now its also starting this shit.
Ive had the bike back at the Concept Store and they replaced the rear pad with a steel pad, the bike came with an organic pad. It worked for a day and on the 2nd ride its kinda back again, but not as bad as it was.

Ive now taken the bike back again, so lets see......
......however I was wondering if anyone else out there has experienced the same issue and how you resolved it.....

I spoke to SRAM themselves and the guy reckon that they would replaced pads back to organic and at the same time also new rotors.......this should solve the issue.......well hopefully the shop will order these new parts.

Im quite disappointed, ive always been riding HOPE Tech M4's and now issues what so ever......I do like to feel of the Avid's, but F%$#ck the noise will drive me insane, plus its a brand new bike, im mean really?

So please if anyone has any info regarding this issue, please share.......otherwise im back to HOPE!!!!
flag DARKSTAR63
O+
Posted: Feb 21, 2013 at 10:37 Quote
I have an XO trail brake that works well enough but makes AWFUL noise. I did address this issue previously with Avid Juicy's by fitting organic pads. I have not tried anything with the XO, I was under the impression the stock pads are organic. Truth be told I took it off and fitted Shimano XT's.

Do try re-aligning the caliper, due to the Avid "Tri-Align" sometimes the caliper can end up not quite square with the rotor. Also, try cleaning the rotors with brake cleaner and perhaps even take a very high grit sand paper to the brake surface to clean them up and get rid of any glazing or pad material.

When all else fails....

Hope Tech M4 is a nice brake Wink
flag whattheheel
Posted: Feb 21, 2013 at 11:19 Quote
Get some fingernail paint and paint the back of the pads with it and let it dry. Install and ride. There is a small amount of play in between the pad and caliper that will make this happen. I am not sure if there is aftermarket XO Trail pads out from Jagwire but I have solved this problem with the blue jagwire pads on Elixers. And yes make sure caliper is aligned.
flag iffy
Posted: Feb 21, 2013 at 11:32 Quote
this has been very hard to pin down with loads of different solutions, that work for some not others etc..

my opinion is bed in is critical as well as careful setup, the whole deal with the pad material being deposited on the disk is one of the key points.

i think riding in wet muddy conditions can cause this layer of pad material on the disk to be rubbed off resulting in turkey squalking brakes,

brake hard and get some heat into the system works for me, gentle braking just kill mine Wink

i brake in new pads pedaling down a hill while braking quite hard several times but never stopping. this has worked well for me with all types of pad.

good luck!

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-Silence-That-Squeaky-Disc-Brake-2011.html
flag DARKSTAR63
O+
Posted: Feb 21, 2013 at 11:40 Quote
Good find on that article. That's exactly what I had in mind.
flag marcus8402
O+
Posted: Apr 25, 2013 at 7:41 Quote
I have the same bike and the same problem. The fronts are fine, but the rears are god awful! I first tried re-bedding them with no luck. I took the bike in to my LBS after that, and they couldn't fix it either so SRAM on warranty replaced the rotors & pads. LBS told me they did the bed in and they seemed to be OK. Took it out yesterday for a ride and same problem! Really hate to box up a $300 set of brakes.

Side note it is funny to let them howl approaching bikers/hikers from behind.
flag danthepirate
O+
Posted: Sep 6, 2013 at 21:55 Quote
I too have the exact same problem! Also running them on a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Evo as they come stock on that bike. And just the rear brake with that issue. Not only is the noise so loud and harsh, I can actually feel vibrations go right to my feet! Not loosing any power, but very annoying and frustrating to say the least. And very uncomfortable feeling the vibrations when I brake. I've tried everything from re-aligning my caliper to buying new pads and sanding and cleaning both the rotors and pads. That will solve the issue for one ride and then it starts all over again. I don't know what to do anymore, so since my bike is still within a year of purchase date I think I'll get my shop to send them back for warranty during the winter. Any feedback and suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks!

Daniel
flag iffy
Posted: Sep 7, 2013 at 2:20 Quote
try rotating the caliper slightly by putting a washer on just one of the mounts.

also try paint the back of the pads with nail varnish/similar or some of the brake squeal killer stuff if you find some.
flag whattheheel
Posted: Sep 7, 2013 at 6:52 Quote
Either paint the back of the pads or find some teflon grease type stuff on the back of pads. It's on four bar bikes and caused by the metal of brake pad and metal of the piston rubbing together. You running resin pads or metal?
flag danthepirate
O+
Posted: Sep 9, 2013 at 22:41 Quote
Thanks for the info! I'm running metallic pads. I was riding with two friends this last weekend who had the same problem with there bikes which are also Stumpy's. He talked to one of the engineers at Specialized who informed him it was not the brake but instead a design factor with the cable routing and the super light aluminum seat stays that caused the extreme noise and vibrations. He said to align the housing so it faces down on an angle (roughly 45 degrees or so) and then just leave it attached to the chain stay and remove the housing clip on the seat stay. I tried that and even after a whole day of doing runs down Whistler so far so good!
flag ajax-ripper
Posted: Sep 10, 2013 at 1:26 Quote
fran7802 wrote:
Hi All,

I bought a new bike ...... http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/sjfsr/stumpjumperfsrexpertevo29#specs
....and well the brakes are making one hell of a noise, especially the rear brake. At first the front was ok, but now its also starting this shit.
Ive had the bike back at the Concept Store and they replaced the rear pad with a steel pad, the bike came with an organic pad. It worked for a day and on the 2nd ride its kinda back again, but not as bad as it was.

Ive now taken the bike back again, so lets see......
......however I was wondering if anyone else out there has experienced the same issue and how you resolved it.....

I spoke to SRAM themselves and the guy reckon that they would replaced pads back to organic and at the same time also new rotors.......this should solve the issue.......well hopefully the shop will order these new parts.

Im quite disappointed, ive always been riding HOPE Tech M4's and now issues what so ever......I do like to feel of the Avid's, but F%$#ck the noise will drive me insane, plus its a brand new bike, im mean really?

So please if anyone has any info regarding this issue, please share.......otherwise im back to HOPE!!!!

Saw a number of bikes with this issue while I was working at a shop. It is caused by shutter from the pans moving on the piston behind them, As mentioned above some disk brake grease on the back can help... The root cause of the problem however is the rotors, The shape causes the pad to move more then typical creating a more sever noise/vibration/shutter then typical and in many cases the solution is a new set of organic pads and a different rotor ( the more uniform it is in shape the better.)

In the Giants I worked on it was caused by the specific avd G3 rotor causing the pads to move forward and backward at a frequency almost identical to that of the frames harmonic resonance. It could be something simular in you case...

EDIT: after reading the latest post it isn't brake related. Good to know
flag urinalmint
O+
Posted: Sep 20, 2013 at 22:40 Quote
danthepirate wrote:
Thanks for the info! I'm running metallic pads. I was riding with two friends this last weekend who had the same problem with there bikes which are also Stumpy's. He talked to one of the engineers at Specialized who informed him it was not the brake but instead a design factor with the cable routing and the super light aluminum seat stays that caused the extreme noise and vibrations. He said to align the housing so it faces down on an angle (roughly 45 degrees or so) and then just leave it attached to the chain stay and remove the housing clip on the seat stay. I tried that and even after a whole day of doing runs down Whistler so far so good!
Then why does my front brake on my Enduro do the same thing? Same on my wife's Stumpy and my buddy's Stumpy. All 2013. All came with Elixir 5's. The shop owner where I bought my bike told me today that Specialized wants nothing to do with this and that they are saying it's Avid's issue.
flag ajax-ripper
Posted: Sep 21, 2013 at 2:38 Quote
urinalmint wrote:
danthepirate wrote:
Thanks for the info! I'm running metallic pads. I was riding with two friends this last weekend who had the same problem with there bikes which are also Stumpy's. He talked to one of the engineers at Specialized who informed him it was not the brake but instead a design factor with the cable routing and the super light aluminum seat stays that caused the extreme noise and vibrations. He said to align the housing so it faces down on an angle (roughly 45 degrees or so) and then just leave it attached to the chain stay and remove the housing clip on the seat stay. I tried that and even after a whole day of doing runs down Whistler so far so good!
Then why does my front brake on my Enduro do the same thing? Same on my wife's Stumpy and my buddy's Stumpy. All 2013. All came with Elixir 5's. The shop owner where I bought my bike told me today that Specialized wants nothing to do with this and that they are saying it's Avid's issue.

Trying re-aligning the pad and a more round rotor.
flag whattheheel
Posted: Sep 21, 2013 at 6:37 Quote
Get jagwire pads that have the painted back on them or get out your wife's fingernail paint and paint the backside of the pads. Or try some lithium grease on the back of the pads.
flag urinalmint
O+
Posted: Sep 21, 2013 at 14:38 Quote
ajax-ripper wrote:
urinalmint wrote:
danthepirate wrote:
Thanks for the info! I'm running metallic pads. I was riding with two friends this last weekend who had the same problem with there bikes which are also Stumpy's. He talked to one of the engineers at Specialized who informed him it was not the brake but instead a design factor with the cable routing and the super light aluminum seat stays that caused the extreme noise and vibrations. He said to align the housing so it faces down on an angle (roughly 45 degrees or so) and then just leave it attached to the chain stay and remove the housing clip on the seat stay. I tried that and even after a whole day of doing runs down Whistler so far so good!
Then why does my front brake on my Enduro do the same thing? Same on my wife's Stumpy and my buddy's Stumpy. All 2013. All came with Elixir 5's. The shop owner where I bought my bike told me today that Specialized wants nothing to do with this and that they are saying it's Avid's issue.

Trying re-aligning the pad and a more round rotor.
Nope. Done and done. Same problem. And I've sanded the pads, torched and sanded the pads, scuffed the rotors with a scotchbrite pad, cleaned the rotors, changed the rotors, changed the pads, put a weight on the caliper, put a weight on the chain stay and finally completely changed out the brakes. Code R's on the bike, no problem. Elixir 5's, nothing but problems. But unfortunately I need the Code R's on my DH bike! Trust me, I've messed with these things all season. The only thing I haven't tried is painting the back of the pads. And I plan to try that next.

Besides all that, why should a customer have to go through all this crap to get brakes that work properly? Were talking $3000 or $4000 bikes here. Not walmart bikes. My wife and I have over 6g's worth of Specialized bikes that were purchased this season that have shitty brakes that don't work properly. And we ride 3 to 4 days a week. It's not like they are just sitting in the garage. The other day I grabbed a brand new Stumpy at the shop and rolled it around the store then applied the front brake. Same crap. Brand new, not even out the door yet. Maybe they got a really large batch of really bad brakes. Maybe the brakes just suck. Either way, Spesh and Avid should be embarrassed. It's time they deal with this.
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