Basic Full Suspension Types / Reference With Pictures

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Basic Full Suspension Types / Reference With Pictures
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flag ohklee
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Posted: Mar 23, 2013 at 1:08 Quote
This is an updated version of the Basic Full Suspension Types / Reference to help beginners understand the ever-changing and evolving world of suspension design and to assist you in assessing what design works best for you and your riding style whether you are looking for a new full suspension bike or if you are switching from a hardtail to a full suspension bike.

It should be noted that this is meant as a guide to help you feel for suspension design factors that you prefer and by developing these preferences choose bikes that make for a more enjoyable ride. Ultimately a bike purchase should be decided by testing out a bike (or several bikes) rather than by going only off of what you read on the internet. Apart from what bike companies would have you believe, there is no perfect design out there, but hopefully this guide can help you find the perfect design for you are your riding preferences.

Below you will find a list of important terms and concepts to help you talk the talk and understand the important factors in successful suspension design. Following that is a break down of the major designs available today with the names of the major manufacturers that use them, pros and cons of the designs, and variations of the designs that may alter performance.


Important Terms

Rear Swing Arm: The part of the frame rearward of the seat-tube.
Front Triangle: The part of the frame forward of the seat-tube.
Pivot Point: Anywhere two parts are connected by a rotating bearing or bushing.
Pedal-bob: The loss of acceleration due to the compression of the suspension.
Chain growth: When the chain is stretched as the suspension moves causing pedal feedback.
Brake Jack: When the use of brakes inhibits the movement of a suspension system.
Link: a small part between two sets of bearings or bushings.
Linkage: a system of links working together to actuate the shock as it responds to inputs.
Travel: The distance covered by the wheels as the suspension goes from uncompressed to fully compressed.
Stroke: The distance covered by the shock as the suspension goes from uncompressed to fully compressed.
Shock: A device used to absorb impact.
Leverage Ratio: The ratio created by the difference between the shocks stroke and the wheels travel.
Bottom Bracket: The location of the axle on which the crank arms rotate.
Seat-stays: The linkages heading from near the seat down to the rear axle.
Chain-stays: The linkages heading from near the bottom bracket rearward to the rear axle.
Floating Brake Caliper: A device that prevents the brake caliper from moving during suspension compression thus eliminating interference with the movement of the suspension when the brakes are applied.
Compression Rate: The speed at which the suspension goes from uncompressed to fully compressed.
Linear Compression Rate: The compression rate remains constant through compression.
Progressive or Rising Compression Rate: The compression rate slows down through compression.
Falling Compression Rate: The compression rate speeds up through compression.
Wheel Path: The line created by the rear axle as it moves through the suspensions compression designed to express the designs ride characteristics.
Frame Geometry: The dimensions of the frame as they relate to the fit and feel of the bike.

Important Concepts

Weight Distribution - Ideally the bulk of the weight should be centered between both wheels and as low as possible while maintaining an adequate bottom bracket height for the intended use of the bike. This gives a bike stability and overall better handling. Some brands will not change the size of the rear stays when building a larger or smaller sized frame which will also throw off the bikes stability for a particularly taller or shorter rider as most bikes are built around a medium sized rider. Norco uses what they call Gravity Tune which is the rotation of the bottom bracket shell to lengthen or shorten the chainstays for small and large frames.

Simplicity is Key - Many designs may seem more sophisticated through being more complex and having more moving parts, however the opposite is true. Not only do more parts equal more weight, but it also means that it will be much harder to keep the bike clean and the dirt will have far more bearings or bushings that it can wear out. Having to replace all your bearings or bushing is not cheap and is often a factor brands would rather have you ignore. Ultimately a balance between simplicity and important design details makes for the best designs.

Lateral Stiffness - Lateral flex in a suspension design will greatly reduce pedalling efficiency as your energy is lost side to side rather than used to direct you forward. Lateral flex will also accellerate the demise of your bearings and bushings. Lateral flex can also cause additional heat build up and wear on your rear shock and its various seals. The basic rule is if your links are smaller or not reinforced very well laterally, you will wear out your bearings much faster. Some brands will cut corners on the cost of their design by using lighter smaller links which make the bike seem lighter and more desirable despite the fact that bearing life is drastically decreased. Extremely long unsupported seat stays or chain stays can also cause lateral flex, which is often seen on bikes with shocks mounted horizontally. Vertically mounted shocks often use a rocker link which keeps the seat stays much shorter and stiffer.
Specialized Enduro EVO Link
^Smaller lighter link on a Specialized Enduro

Because links generally have to be attached from either side of the bike, how they are attached is very important to how much strength they will have. Rocker links are links that teeter on a pivot and often times they are merely two pieces of aluminum bolted together. This isn't a particularly strong design as the hardware can easily develop play and wear out whereas some manufacturers will weld the two sides of the rocker link together to eliminate play.
photo
^Rocker link on a Giant Glory

Some rocker links are made out of one piece of Magnesium in which case there is no welding at all which makes for the strongest link.
Custom hand polished evo one piece rocker link on my Session 88 FR
^Magnesium one piece rocker link on a Trek Session

Some manufactures have started using thru-axles at their pivots for additional lateral stiffness.
New Cannondale Jekyll 4 2012 being unboxed and set up Crank Brothers 5050 3s
^Thru-Axle Pivots on a Cannondale Jekyll

Many manufacturers are now experimenting with lower links and swing arms that rotate concentrically around the bottom bracket for added stiffness thanks to the larger pivot points as well as allow for a lower center of gravity. This should also improve pedaling performance as there is no chain growth.
Specialized Demo
^Lower swing arm from the 2015 Specialized Demo
Antidote Lifeline DH review test Photo by Mike Kazimer
^Lower link on an Antidote Lifeline DH
2013 Devinci Wilson Carbon Full Shimano Saint build
^Lower link on a Devinci Wilson

This is an important feature of a bike to be aware of as a consumer because by not offering a laterally stiff bike, manufactures are basically charging you extra money for their faulty designs which is also known as planned obsolescence. The new bearings and bushings are often propreitary which means you can only buy them from the original manufacturer so they can charge whatever they like. This may need to be done as often as once a year and it can be quite expensive for all new bearings and bushings. Without replacing your bushings and bearings the bike will literally rattle apart and most likely damage your rear shock.

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Suspension Designs


Single Pivot
(i.e. Santa Cruz Heckler, Orange, Fezzari Widows Peak, Morewood (excluding the Sukuma & Jabula)
Rear swing arm connects to the front triangle at only one pivot point.
Pros: Simplicity & Strength, Cons: Pedal-bob & Brake Jack
They often rely on rear shocks capable of reducing pedal-bob and floating brake caliper set ups to reduce brake jack.
photo
^Orange Patriot^
photo
^Floating Brake Set Up On a Foes Fly^

*Variations of Single Pivot:
- Transition TR450, TR250, & TR500, Morewood Makula & Kalula, Scott Gambler, Lapiere DH 727, Nukeproof Pulse & Scalp, Saracen Carbon Myst, Foes Bikes, Evil Following, Insurgent and Uprising and Rocky Mountain Flatline use additional linkages to slightly alter the leverage ratio allowing them to get more travel out of a smaller shock and lower the center of gravity, but more links means more weight and more bearings to wear out. It is also very tricky to keep clean.
2013 Rocky Mountain Flatline Blackout frame...
^Rocky Mountain Flatline^

- GT, Mongoose (older), and the Lapiere DH 722 have bottom brackets that are either part of the rear swing arm or are floating between the rear swing arm and the front triangle on a linkage. This design is meant to compensate for the pedal-bob, but the movement of the bottom bracket can be felt during compression. The bottom bracket is an area of the bike that requires the most amount of strength as much of the riders weight moves here during a landing. The bearing life of the linkages holding the bottom bracket to the rest of the frame could be a concern long term.
The 2014 GT Fury
^GT Fury^
mongoose teocali frame with fox rp23 shock
^Mongoose Teocali Comp^

- Older designs by Corsair Bikes featured a linkage system that rotated around the bottom bracket shell and incorporated a built in pulley system to deal with the massive amount of chain growth inherent in the high pivot design. This was part of the craze of high pivot designs which at the time were thought to be the best.
photo
^Corsair Marque^

- Yeti Bikes use eccentric pivots (Switch Technology), aluminum rods (Switch Infinity) and pivots that slide on rails to reduce pedal-bob and brake jack. While being innovative, adding complex parts can increase the likelihood of part failure.
Large 2010 Yeti 303 RDH frame with extra derailleur hanger.
^Yeti 303WC rail system^
2012 yeti sb66 small
^Yeti SB66 Switch Technology^
Yeti 2015
^Yeti SB5c Switch Infinity Technology^

- The Evil Revolt & Undead use a number of small linkages that allows the shock to float and be compressed from both ends. While this can reduce pedal-bob it does require more links and bearings which add weight and increase the likelihood of part failure. It is also very tricky to keep clean.
Check out the Evil Undead at http fanatikbike.com product 13evil-undead-frame-9927.htm
^Evil Undead^
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Four-bar/Rocker Link
(i.e. Kona, NS Bikes (excluding the Fuzz), Morpheus, Banshee, Cannondale, Scott (excluding the Gambler), Jamis, Fezzari TIMP Peak, Cascade Peak, Abajo Peak & Wiki Peak, Nukeproof Mega AM, Mega TR & Rook)
The pivot closest to the rear axle is located ahead of and above the rear axle on the seat-stays.
Pros: Gets more travel out of a smaller shock than single pivot designs, Cons: Pedal-bob & Brake Jack
They often rely on rear shocks cable of reducing pedal-bob and floating brake caliper set ups to reduce brake jack.
2013 Kona supreme operator
^Kona Supreme Operator^
photo
^Kona’s D.O.P.E. Floating Brake System^

*Variations of Four-bar/Rocker Link:
- Kona’s “Magic Link” places an additional shock and linkage in where the shock would normally connect to the down-tube. This shock is designed to compress when riding downhill to increase travel as well as resist compression when riding uphill. It is also very tricky to keep clean
Magic Link air side
^Kona’s “Magic Link” on the Coilair^

-The newer Kona Process does away with the ancient Kona design by throwing out the massive rocker link and trading it for a smaller link located lower on the bike which actuates a small connection to the shock on the inside of the front triangle. This new design allows for a long and low geometry.
2014 Kona Process 153 Bike - Large
^Process 153^

- Cannondale’s Pull Shocks are proprietary shocks that resist shock expansion rather than compression through the use of negatively pressurized chambers. This design allows greater control of the suspension travel with remote handlebar mounted controls. Changing the travel also allows the geometry to be altered to better handle the terrain. Each travel setting also receives its own rebound adjustment. The downside is that the shock cannot be switched to a normal compression shock.
frame of the claymore
^Cannondale’s DYAD pull shock design on the Claymore^

- Scott once used a system very similar to Cannondale’s pull shocks but has now switched to a proprietary “push” shock that allows for different travel settings that can be adjusted from the handlebar. Changing the travel also allows the geometry to be altered to better handle the terrain. Each travel setting also receives its own rebound adjustment. The downside is that there are not any other shocks on the market that offer this if one wanted to change to a different shock.
Scott Genius LT
^2014 Scott Genius

- Commencal connects the shock from the linkage to the chain-stays rather than the front triangle creating a floating shock that compresses from both ends to reduce pedal-bob, but this design does interrupt the seat-tube thus adding additional weight to maintain the strength of the frame.
My new 2013 Commencal Meta AM VIP build large
^Commencal Meta V3^
-Commencals new Contact System found on the Meta V4 is very similar to what you would find on the Specialized Enduro but with the rear pivot above the axle. Brake jack then is still an issue and the ability of the bike to prevent pedal-bob will come down to how sophisticated the placement of the pivot is.
Commencal Meta V4 suspension 2015
^Commencal Meta V4 Contact System^

- Solstice bikes uses a reverse design in which the floating shock is actuated by the scissor effect between the seat stays and chain stays. Needless to say the shock wouldn't be very protected from mud, neither would any of the bearings which may also come in contact with rocks.
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.mountainflyermagazine.com/img/upimages/Gear/BIKES/Bikes_2011/Solstice/_DSC0028.jpg
^Solstice^
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Horst-link/FSR “Future Shock Rear”
(i.e. Norco, Specialized, Ghost, Transition (excluding TR250, TR450 & TR500), YT Industries, Ellsworth, Carver, Cube, Lapiere, NS Fuzz, Canyon, Mongoose, Fezzari Nebo Peak & Alto Peak)
The pivot closest to the rear axle is located ahead of and below the rear axle on the chain-stays.
Pros: Active under braking, Extremely plush over small bumps and big hits
Cons: Minimal pedal-bob when climbing in granny ring
They often rely on rear shocks capable of reducing pedal bob while climbing, pedal-bob is reduced on more sophisticated versions of the design.
photo
^Norco Range^

*Variations of Horst-link/FSR “Future Shock Rear”:
- Rocky Mountain Bikes (excluding the Flatline) have the pivot ahead of and above the rear axle on the chain-stays which slightly reduces the chain growth that causes pedal bob. They call it Smooth Link. The only downside is that it does limit their ability to alter the pivots location for different riding styles and characteristics hence why they know use a flip chip at the shock mount to change suspension feel.
Rocky Mountain Slayer 70 18 black
^Rocky Mountain Slayer^

- Knolly Bikes add a secondary linkage which slightly alters the leverage ratio, but adds weight and extra bearings and thus increases likelihood of small part failure.
photo
^Knolly Delerium^

- The Specialized Epic uses a small cylinder called “the Brain” connected to the chain-stays which monitors the compression rate of the suspension to stiffen the shock when climbing and to relax when descending. So far this technology is only available for Cross Country Applications. Electronic versions of this design are now becoming available aftermarket and work with all suspension designs.
Specialized Futureshock Brain by Fox with ability to make it soft and squishy or hardtail firm 160mm rear rotor
^"The Brain" on the Specialized Epic.^

-The new Specialized Demo now uses a pivot a concentric pivot around the bottom bracket rather than above or behind it. This same design can be found on their P-Slope, slopestyle bike. Mostly like this was done to add strength, making the chainstays larger, allow for more design freedom above the bottom bracket area and shorten the rear stays. With the FSR patent dead this could also be an attempt to keep the ancient design looking fresh in 2014. An asymmetrical design to the frame exposes the shock on the non-driveside of the frame, and I'm sure the carbon has been strengthened to prevent side to side torsion from tweaking the one sided support.
2015 Specialized Demo
^2014 Specialized Demo Carbon^

- The Ghost Riot employs the use of a small hidden linkage near the bottom bracket that attaches to the swing arm as well acts as the main shock mount. This linkage compresses the shock from the bottom so that it is then compressed from both sides as the bike moves through its travel. The purpose of doing this is to reduce pedal-bob and improve pedalling performance. This system does add extra small linkages and bearings that may be difficult to keep clean and could be subject to accelerated wear.

Ghost Riot>
photo
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.nsmb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/2014-ghost-amr-riot-1600.gif

- The GT Sensor and GT force use their "AOS" design where the linkage that is used to actuate the shock is placed at the bottom of the system, rather than the top and the bottom bracket sits with in it. As the suspension compresses the cranks move with the system to eliminate chain growth which is the prime cause of pedal bob. The movement of the cranks may be felt while riding and because the bottom bracket area is such a high stress area any lateral play could cause severe bearing and bushing failure.

GT Force> Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://hansrey.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/image0091.jpg

- The 2014 Marin Mount Vision uses a Horst Link design that uses frame flex within the carbon stays as the rear pivot. While it may be lighter system and may eliminate a bearing that could fail, using frame flex as a pivot could cause frame failure if pushed too hard.
2014 Marin Mount Vision 650B - Sea Otter Classic Day 1
^2014 Marin Mount Vision

- The 2014 NS Fuzz use a Horst Link design combined with a floating rear shock that mounts to the swing arm. In this way the rear shock is compressed by both end from the linkage and the swing arm with the goal of reducing pedal-bob and improving pedalling performance. This does however interrupt the seat tube and require the use of additional material around the shock to maintain the frames strength.
NS Bikes
^NS Fuzz
______________________________________________________________________________________________

ABP "Active Braking Pivot" or Split Pivot
(i.e. Devinci, Morewood Sukuma & Jabula)
The pivot is placed concentrically on the rear axle.
Pros: Active under braking & greatly improves pedaling performance, Cons: Depending on the design, may not be the plushiest system, causing one to run the rear shock too soft for big hits or too stiff for small bumps .
2012 Devinci Dixon RC - rear bolt-on axle

*Variations of ABP "Active Braking Pivot" or Split Pivot:
- The Devinci Wilson flips the design upside down. Normally the shock driving link would be placed above the main swing arm, but in this case it is below it rotating around the bottom bracket area. This design looks similar to a Santa Cruz or Intense, but it is not a virtual pivot. The purpose is to change the leverage ratio, place the weight of the shock lower for stability and improve square bump compliance. This design does require the interruption of the seat tube.
photo
- Trek bikes use a simple but efficient floating suspension design that works with the ABP technology. At no point does the rear shock mount to the front triangle, but instead “floats” between the linkage and the swing arm while not interrupting the seat-tube. The shock mount on the chain-stays moves with the direction of the compression to allow more travel with a smaller shock and creates a more linear compression rate even with normally more progressive rate shocks. This works in conjunction with the ABP to allow the suspension to remain active while braking, but it also greatly eliminates pedal-bob and softens up on rougher terrain. One downside is that it doesn’t make for the plushiest of suspension systems, at least with standard air shocks. This is why Trek uses a special DRCV (dual rate control valve) Fox branded air shock that makes the system as plush as anything else on the market without sacrificing any of its pedalling benefits. Being that the shock is proprietary, switching to a different shock is near impossible without custom machining mounting hardware.
Slash 9 F S
^Trek Slash^
______________________________________________________________________________________________

VPP “Virtual Pivot Point”
(i.e. Giant, Ibis, Santa Cruz (excluding the Heckler), Intense, Banshee, Pivot, Turner, Cove, BMC, Marin (except for the Mount Vision), Fezzari Hidden Peak, Niner and any bike with DW LINK)
Also commonly referred to as Maestro (Giant) or DW(Dave Weagle) LINK, this design uses a small linkage directly behind the bottom bracket on which a solid rear triangle moves connected to another linkage below the seat clamp to actuate the shock. Because the suspension appears to rotate around a point in the frame where there is no real pivot it is considered to be a virtual pivot point.
Pros: Active under braking, Pedals well uphill, Cons: Flex in the linkages leading to shortened bearing life & Falling rate compression rate.
Generally more expensive designs will do more to reduce flex and promote long bearing life.
Falling rate compression rates cause bikes to blow through travel unnecessarily and can potentially damage shocks. Falling rate compression rates occur on some bikes with this design however the placement of linkages will greatly alter the compression rate hence the differences in ride quality despite the similarities in appearance and generally more expensive designs address this.
The rear shock mounts low in the frame for a lower center of gravity and better cornering. This combined with the DW-link s anti-squat characteristics makes for a low stiff bike that corners on a dime without the penalties normally associated with a low BB. The DW linkage shown here is mounted on 17mm pivot pins with a double row of EnduroMax bearings for long life and a supple ride. Additionally the short DW link and the 83mm wide bb shell contribute to minimize lateral flex.
^DW-LINK^
2012 Giant Faith- 7 Maestro Suspension RockShox Vivid Coil RC2 550lbs. coil Truvativ Descendant crankset w MRP G2 Mini SL SRAM X9 Derailleur
^Maestro^

*Variations of VPP “Virtual Pivot Point”:
- Santa Cruz employs VPP in a slightly different way in order to eliminate falling rate compression. They do this by placing the shock horizontally actuated by a linkage designed to increase the leverage ratio and change the suspension curve or path to be more lively when pedaling. It rotates in the opposite direction as the lower link whereas on a maestro bike the two links rotate in the same direction thus accounting for the difference in ride feel.
2015 Santa Cruz Nomad
^Santa Cruz Nomad^

- The Canfield Balance is similar to traditional virtual pivot designs except that it does away with a rocker link with a vertical shock and instead employs a horizontal shock actuated by a link designed to alter the leverage ratio and add much needed stiffness which is also added to the lower link at the expense of the seat tube.
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.freerider.ro/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Canfield-Balance-3.jpg^Canfield Balance^

- Many Virtual Pivot designs will mount the shock to the small linkage near the bottom bracket rather than the linkage closer to the seat clamp in order to maximize the amount of travel (Intense M9 or Santa Cruz V10). This design interrupts the seat tube limiting seat height adjustments and will require extra material for strength.
Intense M9 2013
^Intense M9^

- The Mondraker Summum uses their "Zero Suspension" system which is a virtual pivot system with a floating shock mounted to the lower linkage in such a way that the system compresses the shock from both ends. The goal with this is to reduce pedal-bob and improve pedalling performance however it does interrupt the seat tube and require additional material around the shock in order to maintain strength in the frame.
photo
^Mondraker Summum^

- The Polygon Collusus N9 uses their FS3 design which is very similar to the Mondraker Summum despite the fact that they are design for two very different types of riding. The major difference is that the pivot location for the bottom link is much further ahead of the bottom bracket whereas on the Mondraker it is located behind. A lot of material is needed to stretch the rear triangle around the front triangle.
Polygon Collosus N9

^Polygon Collossus N9^

- The Antidote Lifeline DH uses their FDS (Floating Dampening System) suspension design which is very similar idea to the Mondraker Summum in that the the shock is compressed by both the upper and lower link. However the Lifeline also places pivot for the bottom link around the bottom bracket for added stiffness. The way the upper link rotates also helps to change the leverage ratio to keep the bike sitting higher in its travel. The only major downside with this sign is that many of the pivots and the shock are quite exposed to mud, and although the bike does come with a rear fender, those poor pivots may see more wear than most.
Antidote Lifeline DH review test Photo by Mike Kazimer

^Antidote Lifeline DH^

- The Polygon Collusus DH uses their FS2 design which is very similar to the Antidote Lifeline. The major difference is that the upper link allows the shock pivot to move in the direction of the compression rather than against it. This allows the bike to get more travel with a shorter shock. Their latest design now places the main pivot above the bottom bracket rather than around it.
DH9

^Polygon Collossus DH^

I hope you have found this useful. Feel free to share this information with others. If you have any questions or if there are any brands or specific bikes not listed above and you are wondering what type of design they use, just ask. Cheers
flag Tinga
Posted: May 3, 2013 at 0:13 Quote
lots of good info there. thanks.
flag andrewwieland13
Posted: May 6, 2013 at 14:19 Quote
i have an 02 Iron Horse SGS DH... what kind of linkage is that? its very similar to the Specialized Big Hits of that time
flag ohklee
O+
Posted: May 7, 2013 at 8:39 Quote
andrewwieland13 wrote:
i have an 02 Iron Horse SGS DH... what kind of linkage is that? its very similar to the Specialized Big Hits of that time

You are correct, the rear pivot is below and forward of the rear axle and is therefore a Horst Link or FSR design similar to the Specialized Big Hit.
flag andrewwieland13
Posted: May 7, 2013 at 8:42 Quote
thanks for the help man
flag callen240
Posted: May 8, 2013 at 21:30 Quote
Thanks for the thread. Mods, bump this to the top and stickey!
flag ohklee
O+
Posted: May 18, 2013 at 7:50 Quote
callen240 wrote:
Thanks for the thread. Mods, bump this to the top and stickey!

I constantly update this post as new suspension designs come to my attention, if you can share the post in anyway and get it put up as a sticky I think it could be a valuable resource for many people.
flag PHeller
O+
Posted: Aug 1, 2013 at 13:45 Quote
Could you update this for 2013 to include changes to Marin Bikes, Scott (LT now uses traditional shock) and Kona's new suspension designs?

Also, you claim that ABP has no drawbacks, but many will tell you that Maestro bikes climb with less pedal feedback. Why is this?
flag superbikes
Posted: Aug 4, 2013 at 13:39 Quote
So what is the 2013 nuke proof mega AM ? And is it the frames design that makes this pedal very well or is this the shocks setup ? Maybe both
flag ohklee
O+
Posted: Aug 5, 2013 at 22:09 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Could you update this for 2013 to include changes to Marin Bikes, Scott (LT now uses traditional shock) and Kona's new suspension designs?

Also, you claim that ABP has no drawbacks, but many will tell you that Maestro bikes climb with less pedal feedback. Why is this?

I have updated the guide for the new Marin bikes including the Mount Vision with its unique design. The newer Scott Genius has also been included.

The New Kona Process isn't all that different from the old one apart from the "enduro style" shock mount and a proper laterally reinforced link. Pedalling may be slightly improved due to the laterally mounted shock opposed to a vertically mounted shock, but that's about it. It's just a fancier looking Four Bar.

I have revised the ABP section of the guide, it is not without its drawbacks. Both the Maestro system and ABP pedal well, but I have found that Maestro pedals significantly better when in the saddle, whereas I find ABP pedals just as well whether on or off the saddle.
flag ohklee
O+
Posted: Aug 5, 2013 at 22:15 Quote
superbikes wrote:
So what is the 2013 nuke proof mega AM ? And is it the frames design that makes this pedal very well or is this the shocks setup ? Maybe both

The 2013 Nukeproof Mega AM is a Four Bar design because the rear pivot is located above and forward of the rear axle. Pedalling performance is, as you suggested, a combination of the design and the shock set up. Generally horizontally mounted shocks improve pedalling performance, which is why so many cross country bikes use horizontally mounted shocks, however such a set up does make it difficult to maintain lateral stiffness due smaller links that can fit within the front triangle.
flag superbikes
Posted: Aug 6, 2013 at 0:19 Quote
ohklee wrote:
superbikes wrote:
So what is the 2013 nuke proof mega AM ? And is it the frames design that makes this pedal very well or is this the shocks setup ? Maybe both

The 2013 Nukeproof Mega AM is a Four Bar design because the rear pivot is located above and forward of the rear axle. Pedalling performance is, as you suggested, a combination of the design and the shock set up. Generally horizontally mounted shocks improve pedalling performance, which is why so many cross country bikes use horizontally mounted shocks, however such a set up does make it difficult to maintain lateral stiffness due smaller links that can fit within the front triangle.
brill thanks and no problems with stiffness on this frame but do understand this as I've had other frame like this and they have had a lot of rear end flex . Cheers edit thought I'd list the ones I found with rear end flex .
2010 intense 66 really bad flex.
2012 foes shaver flex at higher speed
2012 intense tracer 2 flex at lower speeds
2012 transition bandit flex at lower speeds
2012 dabomb cherry bomb flex lower and higher speeds .

I do like and prefer the four bar design as it pedals really well but it has took me a while to find one with out rear end flex . I have tried other designs like the 2013 commercial meta am but found that design to active for the rideing I want to do . Wish I spotted this thread before as its very usefull . Got the right frame for me in the end very happy . I suggest to others to check this out and try and learn more about frame design before buying . Many riders I know just think hay shorter travel yeah that's what I won't it will ride well but not knowing frame design makes a massive difranc to how that shock is used .happy trails :-)
flag kamenko
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 at 5:35 Quote
Add few other newer variations in the first post Smile



Mondraker "Zero suspension" system (DW link with floating shock, actuated by both short links)
photo



Ghost Riot "Riot link" - sort of floating shock complex variation of horst-link
photo
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.nsmb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/2014-ghost-amr-riot-1600.gif


new GT chainstay actuated four-bar ("AOS" suspension)
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://hansrey.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/image0091.jpgUnsecure image, only https images allowed: http://stwww.bikemag.com/files/2013/06/GT-Sensor-and-Force-12.jpg
flag ohklee
O+
Posted: Sep 18, 2013 at 10:40 Quote
kamenko wrote:
Add few other newer variations in the first post Smile

Mondraker "Zero suspension" system (DW link with floating shock, actuated by both short links)
Ghost Riot "Riot link" - sort of floating shock complex variation of horst-link
new GT chainstay actuated four-bar ("AOS" suspension)

Thanks for all the great pictures! The mentioned designs have been added.
flag frdh
Posted: Nov 26, 2013 at 5:09 Quote
Lots of really great info on here. One thing as I was reading is that you mentioned the shock on the Evil Undead floats and is able to be compressed from both ends. It's not a floating shock and is only able to be compressed from one end.
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