Sealed bike drive why does it not exist?

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Sealed bike drive why does it not exist?
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Posted: Jul 31, 2013 at 9:48 Quote
I have been working Sealed bike drives for some time


https://www.pinkbike.com/video/218538/

So I know that it is possible to make it work
I have almost finished latest prototype that can have 11-40 gearing on a single 32 tooth front chairing all within clearance size of the chain rings
WHY IS THIS NOT AVAILABLE TO BUY?
The only conclusion that I can think is would make gearing parts last too long?

Posted: Jul 31, 2013 at 15:42 Quote
My question would be, what is the advantage(s)? Not saying there aren't advantages... just asking what they are.

Posted: Aug 1, 2013 at 4:35 Quote
Just guessing but...

1) Cost.
2) Specialized and limited component selection.
3) Difficulty servicing a sealed system.
4) Weight.
5) Too durable? Manufacturers want us to buy new stuff once in a while. Sealed from the elements, thing tend to last.

There have been a number of sealed systems over the years and some commuter bike makers offer them still. Not many in the MTB arena. Most have been shaft driven and recently belt as far as I've seen.

Posted: Sep 3, 2013 at 5:00 Quote
ironxcross wrote:
My question would be, what is the advantage(s)? Not saying there aren't advantages... just asking what they are.
The advantages of sealed drive is that chain and drive parts do not get dirty and when standard drive gets dirty will be less efficient

Posted: Sep 3, 2013 at 5:03 Quote
k3818919 wrote:
Just guessing but...

1) Cost.
2) Specialized and limited component selection.
3) Difficulty servicing a sealed system.
4) Weight.
5) Too durable? Manufacturers want us to buy new stuff once in a while. Sealed from the elements, thing tend to last.

There have been a number of sealed systems over the years and some commuter bike makers offer them still. Not many in the MTB arena. Most have been shaft driven and recently belt as far as I've seen.

Yes thanks for comment Too durable is the problem once it is sealed properly

Posted: Sep 3, 2013 at 15:02 Quote
I don’t buy “too durable” as some conspiracy theory as to why it would not sell. I am reasonably sure anyone could make a bike that would last 30 years and never need servicing. The bike however would weigh 50lbs, have 5 speeds would be hard to pedal. And no one would be interested in buying it--even if it were being pushed by the manufacturers.

The human body is an incredibly inefficient engine to move a bike. Bike performance is absolutely paramount—and is what cyclists will pay for.

There is a fantastically durable system out there already in the internally geared hub (Rohloff). Sealed gearing system. 14 speed (I think). No derailleurs to get caught on rocks/roots. German engineering, tough as nails. I mean, it sounds fantastic, but the hub has a bit of drag and weighs a bit more. And this small amount of inefficiency is enough to kill most of the potential market for an internally geared hub. It is why the chain and derailleur system has persisted for as long as it has. The low weight and efficiency cannot really be beat.

If you could deliver a sealed unit bike that performed every bit as well as a production chain+derailleur bike, you would have a winner. I mean, if my choice was grabbing a Stumpjumper (just as an example) or your bike, where the ONLY performance difference was your bike has a perma-clean drivetrain, I would gladly spend the money on your bike. But, if your bike only has 6 speeds, has less travel, is a less efficient climber, does not hold a line as well, does not shift as crisply and weighs 10lbs more, then the perma-clean drivetrain is nowhere near enough of a selling feature to overcome the weaknesses. I would grab the Stumpjumper.

I mean it’s great you have a prototype rolling around a grassy field. How does the bike perform while ridden aggressively on the trails? More importantly, how does your bike perform on the trails vs. the Stumpjumper (again, just an example)?

Posted: Sep 12, 2013 at 11:41 Quote
Cackerman wrote:
I don’t buy “too durable” as some conspiracy theory as to why it would not sell. I am reasonably sure anyone could make a bike that would last 30 years and never need servicing. The bike however would weigh 50lbs, have 5 speeds would be hard to pedal. And no one would be interested in buying it--even if it were being pushed by the manufacturers.

The human body is an incredibly inefficient engine to move a bike. Bike performance is absolutely paramount—and is what cyclists will pay for.

There is a fantastically durable system out there already in the internally geared hub (Rohloff). Sealed gearing system. 14 speed (I think). No derailleurs to get caught on rocks/roots. German engineering, tough as nails. I mean, it sounds fantastic, but the hub has a bit of drag and weighs a bit more. And this small amount of inefficiency is enough to kill most of the potential market for an internally geared hub. It is why the chain and derailleur system has persisted for as long as it has. The low weight and efficiency cannot really be beat.

If you could deliver a sealed unit bike that performed every bit as well as a production chain+derailleur bike, you would have a winner. I mean, if my choice was grabbing a Stumpjumper (just as an example) or your bike, where the ONLY performance difference was your bike has a perma-clean drivetrain, I would gladly spend the money on your bike. But, if your bike only has 6 speeds, has less travel, is a less efficient climber, does not hold a line as well, does not shift as crisply and weighs 10lbs more, then the perma-clean drivetrain is nowhere near enough of a selling feature to overcome the weaknesses. I would grab the Stumpjumper.

I mean it’s great you have a prototype rolling around a grassy field. How does the bike perform while ridden aggressively on the trails? More importantly, how does your bike perform on the trails vs. the Stumpjumper (again, just an example)?
Yes I am saying that it a sealed drive can be done efficiently enough to make it competitive

Posted: Sep 12, 2013 at 12:36 Quote
aljoburr wrote:
Yes I am saying that it a sealed drive can be done efficiently enough to make it competitive

It was a terribly wet summer here, extreme flooding to the south of us. And I am tossing around the idea of getting back into winter riding. So I for one would be a potential customer for a perma-clean-drivetrain system/dodad/gizmo/thingamaging.

Posted: Nov 3, 2013 at 2:33 Quote
Cackerman wrote:
aljoburr wrote:
Yes I am saying that it a sealed drive can be done efficiently enough to make it competitive

It was a terribly wet summer here, extreme flooding to the south of us. And I am tossing around the idea of getting back into winter riding. So I for one would be a potential customer for a perma-clean-drivetrain system/dodad/gizmo/thingamaging.

Well it can be done but need help to develop, as most bikes have chain stay in wrong place or shape to fit gearing
Sad but true

Posted: Nov 5, 2013 at 19:37 Quote
aljoburr wrote:
Cackerman wrote:
aljoburr wrote:
Yes I am saying that it a sealed drive can be done efficiently enough to make it competitive

It was a terribly wet summer here, extreme flooding to the south of us. And I am tossing around the idea of getting back into winter riding. So I for one would be a potential customer for a perma-clean-drivetrain system/dodad/gizmo/thingamaging.

Well it can be done but need help to develop, as most bikes have chain stay in wrong place or shape to fit gearing
Sad but true
That's another issue, if a new system does not bolt up to a 'standard' frame configuration, you will have a much harder time selling the idea as few people want to buy a whole new frame to go with their new drive train. Too many proprietary parts will cause consumer resistance.

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