Is Manitou on the verge of becoming the brand of choice?

PB Forum :: Downhill
Is Manitou on the verge of becoming the brand of choice?
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flag wera308
Posted: Oct 3, 2013 at 3:57 Quote
It seems that ever since Manitou has been run/owned by Hayes, they have been putting out some fantastic products at very reasonable prices. I wonder how long it will take for people to catch on or are we just too brand loyal to care?
flag Shoe2190
O+
Posted: Oct 3, 2013 at 4:24 Quote
Enduro is the buzzword just now and by all account the Pike is the fork to beat in that area so we will have to see how the Mattoc does.

Do you work for Manitou?
flag wera308
Posted: Oct 3, 2013 at 4:50 Quote
Haha, no I do not work for Manitou. I am just one of Uncle Sams bastard children. I've become very interested in Manitou products. Kind of wondering why I don't see more people using them.
flag slidways
Posted: Oct 3, 2013 at 4:58 Quote
no they are just back in the game.

They were big, than had a few shocker years, now they are coming back. I think it does depend what discipline we are talking about but for dh, BOS are massive but not destoying the entire market, RS is still very respected and are rumoour to be doing some big stuff for next gen forks. Fox are clearly very good if not the best fork right now for dh. 888 are highly praised and back in the game but I don't think any brand is really "the choice" right now.

Id put my money on fox been the closes though.
flag jumpman2334
Posted: Oct 3, 2013 at 9:09 Quote
slidways wrote:
no they are just back in the game.

They were big, than had a few shocker years, now they are coming back. I think it does depend what discipline we are talking about but for dh, BOS are massive but not destoying the entire market, RS is still very respected and are rumoour to be doing some big stuff for next gen forks. Fox are clearly very good if not the best fork right now for dh. 888 are highly praised and back in the game but I don't think any brand is really "the choice" right now.

Id put my money on fox been the closes though.
end of this year is going to be a really big one for dh forks:

-the new marz fork is coming out soon
-new dvo out soon as well
-everyone is waiting on RS to drop info about the charger damper in their boxxer
-float 40 has been out for a while, and ive only read good things about it (so far)

lets also not forget shox too (even tho thats not what were talking about here):
-dvo shock.. hopefully a production date isnt too far off
-marz shock, which i believe should be ready fairly soon (i dont follow marz, so i just know what i see here on PB)
-proto air fox shock (no production date announced, still tweakin)
-ohlins shock (spesh only), so far ive herd good things


anywho, back on topic. the only gripe i have with mani is i know for some of their older forks its impossible to get parts for. my buddy and his dad had these 'black' forks, and i guess they needed parts for them right when they got picked up by hayes (or whoever in the hell they got bought out by), so im assuming new management jumbled somethings up and got rid of stuff people still needed (im favor of releasing their new stuff).

i dont believe they have this issue anymore, as they have been with hayes for a while.. but still, lame. ive only herd good things about dorados, and the new 'enduro' fork doesnt look half bad.
flag slidways
Posted: Oct 3, 2013 at 22:49 Quote
Yeah I'd hope they are a bit better with support than I have seen previously, a mate had a warranty job on his 888 back in 08ish took him over 8months to get it sorted.

Definately looking forward to the next gen if forks. Its awesome to see DVO bring in another USD, BOS bring in a very very linear air fork that is claimed to feel like a spring as most like that linear feel.

Maz have got nothing but praise recently.

If DVO take off I'm curious to see if fox revist the USD again, they have clear advantages over conventional forks.

Great to see more manufacturers coming into the suspension market.
DVO should be good given the guy originated at maz so there is lots of experience behind the product.

I'm waiting for shock manufacturers to move to needle point bearing, the bos is noticeably better with them. I'm curious why fox dont bring one into the game. I'm assuming Maintance and wear. Can always use RWC bearings though so always an option anyway.
I actually think fox might be in a bit of a jam soon in the read, lots of more tuned and higher quality shocks coming out. The rc4 is becoming a little general now. They really need to add tunes to thier distribution.
flag wera308
Posted: Oct 4, 2013 at 14:12 Quote
Well I guess we'll have to see what the next year brings. For now, my money is on the Dorado...literally.
flag jumpman2334
Posted: Oct 5, 2013 at 10:35 Quote
slidways wrote:
Definately looking forward to the next gen if forks. Its awesome to see DVO bring in another USD, BOS bring in a very very linear air fork that is claimed to feel like a spring as most like that linear feel.

I'm waiting for shock manufacturers to move to needle point bearing, the bos is noticeably better with them. I'm curious why fox dont bring one into the game. Can always use RWC bearings though so always an option anyway.

I actually think fox might be in a bit of a jam soon in the read, lots of more tuned and higher quality shocks coming out. The rc4 is becoming a little general now. They really need to add tunes to thier distribution.


DVO is going to give a lot of other companies a run for their money, and they know it. all of the hype comsumers and themselves have been creating is also good for business. esp. a really new company like this. (when i say 'hype', i dont mean it in a bad way, its just the fact that nothing is actually out on the market yet.. although very soon that will change)

fox just updated their bushings (starting with the 2013 models), so id venture to say that if they have something in the works for a new bushing, it wont be for a while until they release another 'new' bushing.. so far, the newer bushings are far better than what came on my 2012 dhx rc4, so i replaced it with the RWC kit. which now 'clicks' upon compression.. still trying to find out a solution to this problem. (my 2012 bushings already started rubbing the ano off the rocker arm, and i wasnt even finished building the bike yet!)

as for your last paragraph, i am a fox guy, and i can admit it. fox will be in a 'jam' here very very soon. rather they like it or not, the big three basically have to realize that there isnt so much of the 'big 3' left anymore (fox, RS, and marz). not saying they dont produce quality stuff anymore, but its just the fact that now the consumers really have a lot of options when it comes to suspension..

as for your comment about tunes: id venture off to say fox does this to make it easier on them. believe it or not, a lot of frames actually work pretty well with the rc4 right out of the box, although there will always be those frames that need a tune to get the most out of the shock.. they actually do have some specifically tuned shocks that ive seen (like vivid airs) come from the factory. but im not sure if they're slated for aftermarket frames, or OEM bikes.. ive only ever seen two, which i both believe were on ebay. i managed to get my 2012 dhc rc4 for so cheap, that if i had a frame that needed the shock to be tuned to get the most out of it, i wouldnt have a problem doing so, since i didnt pay a whole lot for the shock in the first place. my vote would be to send it off to push, or avalanche.
flag slidways
Posted: Oct 5, 2013 at 22:55 Quote
jumpman2334 wrote:
slidways wrote:
Definately looking forward to the next gen if forks. Its awesome to see DVO bring in another USD, BOS bring in a very very linear air fork that is claimed to feel like a spring as most like that linear feel.

I'm waiting for shock manufacturers to move to needle point bearing, the bos is noticeably better with them. I'm curious why fox dont bring one into the game. Can always use RWC bearings though so always an option anyway.

I actually think fox might be in a bit of a jam soon in the read, lots of more tuned and higher quality shocks coming out. The rc4 is becoming a little general now. They really need to add tunes to thier distribution.


DVO is going to give a lot of other companies a run for their money, and they know it. all of the hype comsumers and themselves have been creating is also good for business. esp. a really new company like this. (when i say 'hype', i dont mean it in a bad way, its just the fact that nothing is actually out on the market yet.. although very soon that will change)

fox just updated their bushings (starting with the 2013 models), so id venture to say that if they have something in the works for a new bushing, it wont be for a while until they release another 'new' bushing.. so far, the newer bushings are far better than what came on my 2012 dhx rc4, so i replaced it with the RWC kit. which now 'clicks' upon compression.. still trying to find out a solution to this problem. (my 2012 bushings already started rubbing the ano off the rocker arm, and i wasnt even finished building the bike yet!)

as for your last paragraph, i am a fox guy, and i can admit it. fox will be in a 'jam' here very very soon. rather they like it or not, the big three basically have to realize that there isnt so much of the 'big 3' left anymore (fox, RS, and marz). not saying they dont produce quality stuff anymore, but its just the fact that now the consumers really have a lot of options when it comes to suspension..

as for your comment about tunes: id venture off to say fox does this to make it easier on them. believe it or not, a lot of frames actually work pretty well with the rc4 right out of the box, although there will always be those frames that need a tune to get the most out of the shock.. they actually do have some specifically tuned shocks that ive seen (like vivid airs) come from the factory. but im not sure if they're slated for aftermarket frames, or OEM bikes.. ive only ever seen two, which i both believe were on ebay. i managed to get my 2012 dhc rc4 for so cheap, that if i had a frame that needed the shock to be tuned to get the most out of it, i wouldnt have a problem doing so, since i didnt pay a whole lot for the shock in the first place. my vote would be to send it off to push, or avalanche.

With the RWC bearing they should come with more than one tolerance have you tried changing that?

As for the last bit about tunes, I agree the rc4 works very well with most frames but so would every other shock, its just the other guys are going that step further to make it a little more specific to certain frame. Its not that fox need to do it but to keep up with the market they really should. We are getting to the point where you can buy a rc4 or for the same price buy something else that is more suited and slightly tuned to your bike.
flag jumpman2334
Posted: Oct 5, 2013 at 23:06 Quote
i used the biggest tolerance sleeve for the top mount and second biggest for the bottom. im feeling play in the bottom, my plan is to step it up to the biggest sleeve. ive just been busy playing and diggin on the new property, i still need to make time.

anywho, i agree with everything else you've said. fox is going to have to change some things up if they want to stay up on top in the suspension game. not saying its not possible, but with a company that big, its not something that can be achieved in a night.. or even a week or a weekend per-say Wink
flag joepuddle
Posted: Oct 6, 2013 at 3:16 Quote
I recently put a some manitou circus experts on my new 4x build and have to say I have been really surprised by them. They are really solid the ABS+ is really easy to use and the fact you can run and jump them on lock out is amazing for when your riding bmx or pump tracks when you need/want the suspension. Honestly they were not a brand I gave much thought about but when you look at the price and quality its hard to ignore them.
flag blaing
Posted: Oct 6, 2013 at 5:13 Quote
i love my dorado but its time manitou updated it as its been the same since 2010 especially now every other manufacturer has updated there dh forks and shocks
flag jumpman2334
Posted: Oct 6, 2013 at 10:35 Quote
^ im not sure if RS has been tweaking the boxxer at all, but IIRC its been a while since theyve done anything major to their chassis/platform... on that note, id much rather try a dorado over a boxxer.

hopefully we'll hear some news of the new boxxer within a couple of months tho (charger damper, and possibly black stanctions)
flag EuanBisset145
Posted: Oct 28, 2013 at 20:06 Quote
blaing wrote:
i love my dorado but its time manitou updated it as its been the same since 2010 especially now every other manufacturer has updated there dh forks and shocks

But who says the dorado needs updated to keep up with the other brands stuff, they have a brilliant bottom out circuit which means it's very difficult to have a full on harsh bottom out. It would take a lot to beat what they already have. I'm sure they'll pull something out the bag in the next year or two and take it up another level leaving other companies to attempt to get something close in terms of performance. It's like the Revox rear shock, it still blows a lot of other companies offerings out the water and this is going on my experience on a 2007 model revox.
flag maxyedor
Posted: Oct 28, 2013 at 22:48 Quote
EuanBisset145 wrote:
blaing wrote:
i love my dorado but its time manitou updated it as its been the same since 2010 especially now every other manufacturer has updated there dh forks and shocks

But who says the dorado needs updated to keep up with the other brands stuff, they have a brilliant bottom out circuit which means it's very difficult to have a full on harsh bottom out. It would take a lot to beat what they already have. I'm sure they'll pull something out the bag in the next year or two and take it up another level leaving other companies to attempt to get something close in terms of performance. It's like the Revox rear shock, it still blows a lot of other companies offerings out the water and this is going on my experience on a 2007 model revox.

^This exactly. There's been far too much "new for the sake of being new" in the bike industry. I hope Manitou is working on a secret fork in addition to the Dorado (rather than a replacement), something similar to the Sherman, but with all their latest and greatest internals, and a super stiff chassis. In the mean time, the Dorado is every bit as good as the other forks out there, don't risk screwing up a good thing while trying to rebuild your reputation.

Manitou is in a great position at the moment, but I think they'll have a tough time cornering the market until they can start getting a foothold in the OEM market again. Right or wrong, many people don't view Manitou as a high end product because they don't come on high end bikes.
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