Vertical vs Horizontal DH Suspension?

PB Forum :: Downhill
Vertical vs Horizontal DH Suspension?
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flag Billjohn6
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Posted: Aug 22, 2014 at 18:40 Quote
How do vertical vs. horizontal rear suspension setups translate to downhill riding experience? I am not too knowledgable on how the physics of rear suspensions work and how vertical and horizontal shocks transmit their energy/absorption through the frame pivot swingarm. Maybe the question I should be asking is not how vertical vs. horizontal shocks affect the riding experience but rather how the varying rear suspension pivot mechanism set-ups perform? Either way, I am a strong intermediate rider who loves steep rocks but also want a bike that is fun to throw around in the air and will track corners well. I don't need a racing machine, just a nice, playful bike. The new Trek 9.8 looks really fun, the Demo is an obvious winner for play and low BB cornering ability, and the banshee darkside seems like it would be a blast, plus running a cane creek DB air shock would drop some weight. I would really appreciate learning more about how rear suspensions affect downhill riding experience in regards to being set up vertically vs horizontally and if swingarm mechanics also plays a role. Thanks!
flag Gloryracer
Posted: Aug 23, 2014 at 4:31 Quote
I would like to give a longer answer for your well written question but the answer is simple no difference ! But if you are gonna do Downhill then horizontal is prefered
flag dmadness
Posted: Aug 23, 2014 at 21:46 Quote
different suspention platform perform differently, I.e. a single pivot vs a 4 bar. also different bikes leverage ratios. look into those more if you want to understand what is lost and gained by different platforms..

i.e. a single pivot will suffer more brake jack generally than a 4 bar as the forces are transmitted more directly to the pivot point..

Salute
flag johan90
Posted: Aug 24, 2014 at 10:23 Quote
The actual variance in wheelpath between bikes are pretty negligible, all goes up and down. No design is even close to being horizontal, the Canfield Jedi I think has had around 9 vert and 3 horizontal inches of travel. The Jedi is extreme compared to almost all others besides the Zerode and maybe a few more.

What will matter is linkage rates and what shocks are combined. For instance a bike design around a super progressive air shock wont be as good with a linear coil shock.
flag Billjohn6
O+
Posted: Sep 1, 2014 at 18:26 Quote
Thanks, good places to start looking in terms of single pivot vs 4 bar and how they respond to various suspension setups/frame designs. Any other advice will be much appreciated as I am still trying to educate myself about downhill suspensions!
flag johan90
Posted: Sep 2, 2014 at 12:53 Quote
The actual linkages stuff is not that important to understand more than the basic, for example rising, falling or linear rate is pretty much the only thing you need to know about any linkage.

However, do try to learn how to tune and properly set up your suspension units. That will make the most difference.
flag Billjohn6
O+
Posted: Sep 9, 2014 at 19:10 Quote
What is a good source for reading about how suspensions function and how to repair them? Thanks.
flag dmadness
Posted: Sep 9, 2014 at 22:27 Quote
you must understand mechanics to understand anything with moving parts/ suspension works with oil moving through ports which usually employ needle valves to regulate flow ( turning your rebound knob in for example closes the port opening more resulting in slower flow of fluid ) and oil that moves in circuits.

if you really want to understand how shocks move look for exploded views of shocks and suspension, cane creek have good examples of how their twin tube works, using needle valves and Poppet valves that control the high speed and low speed.


also google search things.

mechanics
fluid dynamics
hydraulics
speed actuated valves..

etc..

Salute
flag Billjohn6
O+
Posted: Sep 13, 2014 at 9:27 Quote
Awesome. Great winter project.
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