Transition Patrol, Scout, Sentinel & Suppressor, Giddy Up & SBG Post your bike and discuss here!

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Transition Patrol, Scout, Sentinel & Suppressor, Giddy Up & SBG Post your bike and discuss here!
Author Message
Posted: May 23, 2019 at 9:26 Quote
skerby wrote:
GlassGuy wrote:
buddymtb wrote:
I just got a Transition Patrol and I am trying to get used to the geometry of the bike. I notice that the front wheel wants to turn under and catch when I turn it hard into corners either high speed or low speed. I rolled the bars back a little and that seemed to help. I know this could just be a need to get used to the shorter fork offset but has anyone else experienced this?

I got an '18 Scout with the reduced offset fork, and since I also have a first gen Scout I expected(and wanted) it to feel the same.
I really don't like what the low offset does to the feeling of the bike...ruins it in my opinion. I feel like I'm riding a 29...dull, slow turns, and I had to run a longer stem to feel semi comfortable...it just felt awkward.
I pulled the 44mm offset fork off my older Scout and put on the '18 and it really woke the bike up!
I now have the Fox 36 that came on the 18 Scout for sale and put a new Marz Z1 with 44mm offset on it and I like it waaaayy better. I was considering selling the new bike and getting a '17 with the previous geo, but it's staying with me now.(I probably will still get a '17 Scout for reserves before everything goes 29 and dull!).
I'd suggest getting a fork with more offset and try it out.

I actually contacted Transition about this change in how the Scout feels...one guy agreed that the Scout isn't as fun as it used to be...another guy seemed kind of defensive and said it's more popular now, and an angle headset plus less travel may help also to get what I want. I'm riding 150 and don't plan to drop it.
I expect these are similar critiques to apply to the Patrol since basically they're the same bike just more travel

Should be throwing a 44mm offset fork on an SBG patrol some day soon. I'll let you know what that's like. Never tried the shorter offset, but it sounds pretty lame from your experience.

It's my opinion that the mtn bike industry is steadily moving towards making bikes more "user friendly"...controlled, planted, stable...hence the fast rise of 29 bikes---a 29er rolls over stuff easier, is more stable...other side, not as snappy, jumpy, "playful". Longer bikes also means more stable, and now this new lower offset fork I think lends to the trend of dulling down bikes. Look at how many parks are being made with those, smooth, groomed trails that you could ride a rigid hardtail on
I like popping off roots and rocks, throwing my back end around, twisting through tight trees...the first Scout was like getting on a BMX bike for trails and it's the only bike I'd ride, so I sold my others.
I quit racing because I wasn't having fun with it anymore..I want my bike to be fun, not so serious and finish line oriented

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 9:27 Quote
I've noticed that a lot of people who enjoyed the new shorter offset forks on the SBG bikes tend to push their bikes harder than those who disliked the changes.

That being said, both short an standard offsets on the SBG bikes don't make that much of a difference, in the end you will get used to the changes the more you ride.

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 9:38 Quote
raisincrunch wrote:
I've noticed that a lot of people who enjoyed the new shorter offset forks on the SBG bikes tend to push their bikes harder than those who disliked the changes.

That being said, both short an standard offsets on the SBG bikes don't make that much of a difference, in the end you will get used to the changes the more you ride.
I think you're quite wrong, but thanks for the opinion. I rode both bikes with swapped forks and would take test rides back to back...a VERY noticeable difference!(and this is over a period of a couple weeks so I could make sure I was assessing things fairly). It may also depend on how you're riding....I look for fun lines on the trail and I mostly ride tight, twisty singletrack, so I like steering to be snappy and quick so I can get loose...I'm not pushing fast and hard on mostly descents with drawn out turns.
"I've noticed that a lot of people who enjoyed the new shorter offset forks on the SBG bikes tend to push their bikes harder than those who disliked the changes." How many people can you possibly know that ride Transitions in order to make a statement like that? How do you measure how a person is pushing "harder"? Are you watching a full ride? Timing them? Maybe they're pushing harder because it's actually harder to turn. Further, unless you've actually tried it you shouldn't give an opinion. And to comment on your second part...if you read the rest of my previous comment you'd see I had this discussion with people at Transition and my thoughts are validated, even given tips on how to change how the new bike feels.
And you're correct..I would eventually get "used to the changes"...you'll get used to anything if you have to. But, I bought a newer Scout after snapping the chainstay a third time and being told the '18 is more burly and it would suit me better. So, I don't want changes..I want the same feeling as the older Scout because it's the bike I love riding and it's a lot of fun!

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 12:27 Quote
Before my Sentinel I had a Mondraker Crafty with 44 offset and I could definitely tell the difference compared to my friend's Crafty with 51 offset. Personally I prefer the extra stability of the shorter offset.

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 14:23 Quote
GlassGuy wrote:
Should be throwing a 44mm offset fork on an SBG patrol some day soon. I'll let you know what that's like. Never tried the shorter offset, but it sounds pretty lame from your experience.

I'm looking at getting a frame only and as a bit worried about trying to find the reduced offset fork if I need it. If the bike actually feels better with normal offset forks, I'd be stoked. Heck, I'd be happy if it even felt passable with normal offset forks. The 37mm offset 27.5 forks are crazy expensive over here, because none of the big shops have them.

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 14:55 Quote
mrtoodles wrote:
GlassGuy wrote:
Should be throwing a 44mm offset fork on an SBG patrol some day soon. I'll let you know what that's like. Never tried the shorter offset, but it sounds pretty lame from your experience.

I'm looking at getting a frame only and as a bit worried about trying to find the reduced offset fork if I need it. If the bike actually feels better with normal offset forks, I'd be stoked. Heck, I'd be happy if it even felt passable with normal offset forks. The 37mm offset 27.5 forks are crazy expensive over here, because none of the big shops have them.
Who says you "need" the reduced offset? That's just how they've stocked them...seems like yet another trend we have to accept...like boost, or metric, etc., etc. It's getting harder and harder to swap parts. I ended up buying a new fork to replace the Fox on the '18 because the bike has a boost wheelset, and I didn't want to deal with using a different front wheel or getting a new set just so I could use a non boost fork. I could've grabbed a barely used Lyrik for half the cost, but...boost wheelset!
Just put your normal fork on see how it goes...as stated I think the bike is much more lively and fun with the 44 offset

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 15:08 Quote
GlassGuy wrote:
buddymtb wrote:
I just got a Transition Patrol and I am trying to get used to the geometry of the bike. I notice that the front wheel wants to turn under and catch when I turn it hard into corners either high speed or low speed. I rolled the bars back a little and that seemed to help. I know this could just be a need to get used to the shorter fork offset but has anyone else experienced this?

I got an '18 Scout with the reduced offset fork, and since I also have a first gen Scout I expected(and wanted) it to feel the same.
I really don't like what the low offset does to the feeling of the bike...ruins it in my opinion. I feel like I'm riding a 29...dull, slow turns, and I had to run a longer stem to feel semi comfortable...it just felt awkward.
I pulled the 44mm offset fork off my older Scout and put on the '18 and it really woke the bike up!
I now have the Fox 36 that came on the 18 Scout for sale and put a new Marz Z1 with 44mm offset on it and I like it waaaayy better. I was considering selling the new bike and getting a '17 with the previous geo, but it's staying with me now.(I probably will still get a '17 Scout for reserves before everything goes 29 and dull!).
I'd suggest getting a fork with more offset and try it out.

I actually contacted Transition about this change in how the Scout feels...one guy agreed that the Scout isn't as fun as it used to be...another guy seemed kind of defensive and said it's more popular now, and an angle headset plus less travel may help also to get what I want. I'm riding 150 and don't plan to drop it.
I expect these are similar critiques to apply to the Patrol since basically they're the same bike just more travel

I find the Patrol with the shorter offset very playful, it bombs downhill and jumps really great as well. It corners great at high speed, the issue I am having is on really techy tight corners as that is where the front wheel wants to tuck under the bike. Rolling the bars back just a little bit helped with this. Really like the bike as it climbs way better than it should and eats everything up on the downhills.

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 15:32 Quote
buddymtb wrote:
GlassGuy wrote:
buddymtb wrote:
I just got a Transition Patrol and I am trying to get used to the geometry of the bike. I notice that the front wheel wants to turn under and catch when I turn it hard into corners either high speed or low speed. I rolled the bars back a little and that seemed to help. I know this could just be a need to get used to the shorter fork offset but has anyone else experienced this?

I got an '18 Scout with the reduced offset fork, and since I also have a first gen Scout I expected(and wanted) it to feel the same.
I really don't like what the low offset does to the feeling of the bike...ruins it in my opinion. I feel like I'm riding a 29...dull, slow turns, and I had to run a longer stem to feel semi comfortable...it just felt awkward.
I pulled the 44mm offset fork off my older Scout and put on the '18 and it really woke the bike up!
I now have the Fox 36 that came on the 18 Scout for sale and put a new Marz Z1 with 44mm offset on it and I like it waaaayy better. I was considering selling the new bike and getting a '17 with the previous geo, but it's staying with me now.(I probably will still get a '17 Scout for reserves before everything goes 29 and dull!).
I'd suggest getting a fork with more offset and try it out.

I actually contacted Transition about this change in how the Scout feels...one guy agreed that the Scout isn't as fun as it used to be...another guy seemed kind of defensive and said it's more popular now, and an angle headset plus less travel may help also to get what I want. I'm riding 150 and don't plan to drop it.
I expect these are similar critiques to apply to the Patrol since basically they're the same bike just more travel

I find the Patrol with the shorter offset very playful, it bombs downhill and jumps really great as well. It corners great at high speed, the issue I am having is on really techy tight corners as that is where the front wheel wants to tuck under the bike. Rolling the bars back just a little bit helped with this. Really like the bike as it climbs way better than it should and eats everything up on the downhills.
Did you ride a previous version(pre SBG)? I haven't ridden a Patrol but I imagine they're fairly similar, with the Scout being the more bouncy of the two
And that's been my point...this low offset is fine if you are doing longer, drawn out turns...like riding a 29, but if you like a snappy bike for tighter trails and more funnery then it's a detriment. The low offset dulls it down. I think of my older Scout as a BMX trail bike and I wanted the new one to be similar

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 19:00 Quote
GlassGuy wrote:
buddymtb wrote:
GlassGuy wrote:


I got an '18 Scout with the reduced offset fork, and since I also have a first gen Scout I expected(and wanted) it to feel the same.
I really don't like what the low offset does to the feeling of the bike...ruins it in my opinion. I feel like I'm riding a 29...dull, slow turns, and I had to run a longer stem to feel semi comfortable...it just felt awkward.
I pulled the 44mm offset fork off my older Scout and put on the '18 and it really woke the bike up!
I now have the Fox 36 that came on the 18 Scout for sale and put a new Marz Z1 with 44mm offset on it and I like it waaaayy better. I was considering selling the new bike and getting a '17 with the previous geo, but it's staying with me now.(I probably will still get a '17 Scout for reserves before everything goes 29 and dull!).
I'd suggest getting a fork with more offset and try it out.

I actually contacted Transition about this change in how the Scout feels...one guy agreed that the Scout isn't as fun as it used to be...another guy seemed kind of defensive and said it's more popular now, and an angle headset plus less travel may help also to get what I want. I'm riding 150 and don't plan to drop it.
I expect these are similar critiques to apply to the Patrol since basically they're the same bike just more travel

I find the Patrol with the shorter offset very playful, it bombs downhill and jumps really great as well. It corners great at high speed, the issue I am having is on really techy tight corners as that is where the front wheel wants to tuck under the bike. Rolling the bars back just a little bit helped with this. Really like the bike as it climbs way better than it should and eats everything up on the downhills.
Did you ride a previous version(pre SBG)? I haven't ridden a Patrol but I imagine they're fairly similar, with the Scout being the more bouncy of the two
And that's been my point...this low offset is fine if you are doing longer, drawn out turns...like riding a 29, but if you like a snappy bike for tighter trails and more funnery then it's a detriment. The low offset dulls it down. I think of my older Scout as a BMX trail bike and I wanted the new one to be similar

No I came off of a YT Jeffsy that I had tricked out with a 160mm fork and a coil shock. I still own the Jeffsy which is a super playful bike because of the geometry and the progressive suspension. I got the Patrol because some of the downhill stuff I ride is really knarly and was to much for the jeffsy. I would think that with the shorter offset on the Patrol that it would make it snappier on the tighter trails and my experience so far on the tight techy trails seems to confirm that. The other huge advantage to the shorter fork offset that I am experiencing is on really technical climbs as the front wheel track really good for a bike with 170 mm of travel and it also makes it easy to pop over large obstacle while climbing.

The only drawback I am seeing to the steeper fork offset is the issue I described in my earlier post. This could simply be my need to get used to the change in geo on the Patrol as on the Jeffsy you needed to throw it into the corners a little to get the best out of it. I am noticing on the Patrol that I need to trust more in how the bike tracks so well and not be so aggressive with my body weight and movement into the corners. Could also be that I had the bars rolled to far forward which was putting to much weight on the front tire and causing it to roll in. I adjusted the roll back a little and will be taking the bike out on some crazy fun downhill tracks tomorrow with plenty of chunk and some big drops, so I will let you know how it goes and if the bar roll issue helped.

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 21:02 Quote
mrtoodles wrote:
GlassGuy wrote:
Should be throwing a 44mm offset fork on an SBG patrol some day soon. I'll let you know what that's like. Never tried the shorter offset, but it sounds pretty lame from your experience.

I'm looking at getting a frame only and as a bit worried about trying to find the reduced offset fork if I need it. If the bike actually feels better with normal offset forks, I'd be stoked. Heck, I'd be happy if it even felt passable with normal offset forks. The 37mm offset 27.5 forks are crazy expensive over here, because none of the big shops have them.

I've been riding a patrol with an 42mm offset fork for the last year. The shorter offset might be better, but it rides just fine with a normal offset fork. Even transition says, if you look around a little bit, that is works with either short or normal offset.

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 23:13 Quote
GlassGuy wrote:

I got an '18 Scout with the reduced offset fork, and since I also have a first gen Scout I expected(and wanted) it to feel the same.
I really don't like what the low offset does to the feeling of the bike...ruins it in my opinion. I feel like I'm riding a 29...dull, slow turns, and I had to run a longer stem to feel semi comfortable...it just felt awkward.
I pulled the 44mm offset fork off my older Scout and put on the '18 and it really woke the bike up!
I now have the Fox 36 that came on the 18 Scout for sale and put a new Marz Z1 with 44mm offset on it and I like it waaaayy better. I was considering selling the new bike and getting a '17 with the previous geo, but it's staying with me now.(I probably will still get a '17 Scout for reserves before everything goes 29 and dull!).
I'd suggest getting a fork with more offset and try it out.

It'd be interesting to try a 51mm offset 27.5 fork on the Scout and see how that is.

And before anyone says "they don't make that". Fox produces a 27.5 fork with a 51mm offset. Hard to find and maybe originally OEM only, but they are out there.

Posted: May 24, 2019 at 5:24 Quote
buddymtb wrote:
GlassGuy wrote:
buddymtb wrote:


I find the Patrol with the shorter offset very playful, it bombs downhill and jumps really great as well. It corners great at high speed, the issue I am having is on really techy tight corners as that is where the front wheel wants to tuck under the bike. Rolling the bars back just a little bit helped with this. Really like the bike as it climbs way better than it should and eats everything up on the downhills.
Did you ride a previous version(pre SBG)? I haven't ridden a Patrol but I imagine they're fairly similar, with the Scout being the more bouncy of the two
And that's been my point...this low offset is fine if you are doing longer, drawn out turns...like riding a 29, but if you like a snappy bike for tighter trails and more funnery then it's a detriment. The low offset dulls it down. I think of my older Scout as a BMX trail bike and I wanted the new one to be similar

No I came off of a YT Jeffsy that I had tricked out with a 160mm fork and a coil shock. I still own the Jeffsy which is a super playful bike because of the geometry and the progressive suspension. I got the Patrol because some of the downhill stuff I ride is really knarly and was to much for the jeffsy. I would think that with the shorter offset on the Patrol that it would make it snappier on the tighter trails and my experience so far on the tight techy trails seems to confirm that. The other huge advantage to the shorter fork offset that I am experiencing is on really technical climbs as the front wheel track really good for a bike with 170 mm of travel and it also makes it easy to pop over large obstacle while climbing.

The only drawback I am seeing to the steeper fork offset is the issue I described in my earlier post. This could simply be my need to get used to the change in geo on the Patrol as on the Jeffsy you needed to throw it into the corners a little to get the best out of it. I am noticing on the Patrol that I need to trust more in how the bike tracks so well and not be so aggressive with my body weight and movement into the corners. Could also be that I had the bars rolled to far forward which was putting to much weight on the front tire and causing it to roll in. I adjusted the roll back a little and will be taking the bike out on some crazy fun downhill tracks tomorrow with plenty of chunk and some big drops, so I will let you know how it goes and if the bar roll issue helped.
You're comparing two completely different bikes so it's not really fair to judge how the offset affects the Patrol...you're getting used to how one brand feels compared to the other....I'm comparing a Scout to a Scout with the updated geo and how that has affected the ride quality. If I hadn't ever ridden a previous Scout I'd think the new one rides just fine with how it came. Honestly, until this I hadn't ever even thought about fork offset.

Posted: May 24, 2019 at 5:30 Quote
kwapik wrote:
GlassGuy wrote:

I got an '18 Scout with the reduced offset fork, and since I also have a first gen Scout I expected(and wanted) it to feel the same.
I really don't like what the low offset does to the feeling of the bike...ruins it in my opinion. I feel like I'm riding a 29...dull, slow turns, and I had to run a longer stem to feel semi comfortable...it just felt awkward.
I pulled the 44mm offset fork off my older Scout and put on the '18 and it really woke the bike up!
I now have the Fox 36 that came on the 18 Scout for sale and put a new Marz Z1 with 44mm offset on it and I like it waaaayy better. I was considering selling the new bike and getting a '17 with the previous geo, but it's staying with me now.(I probably will still get a '17 Scout for reserves before everything goes 29 and dull!).
I'd suggest getting a fork with more offset and try it out.

It'd be interesting to try a 51mm offset 27.5 fork on the Scout and see how that is.

And before anyone says "they don't make that". Fox produces a 27.5 fork with a 51mm offset. Hard to find and maybe originally OEM only, but they are out there.

I'd ride my older Scout as a 26 if I could! When I got it I raised the fork to 150 and dropped my cranks from 175 to 170 as I was having pedal strikes I never had on trails I know very well. If I went to 26 I'd have to change all sorts of stuff again! But, I can only imagine how crazy poppy the bike would be!
A couple days ago I actually saw a video I made and I was on a 26" and going into and through super tight rock sections and clearing through really small openings...it then occurred to me I haven't made any of these sections since changing wheel sizes...even though I love the Scout I always felt hung up trying to go through these areas that if you fall you're going to get really banged up, so I stopped trying.
I think their may be a 51mm Lyrik also

Posted: May 24, 2019 at 8:27 Quote
GlassGuy wrote:
raisincrunch wrote:
I've noticed that a lot of people who enjoyed the new shorter offset forks on the SBG bikes tend to push their bikes harder than those who disliked the changes.

That being said, both short an standard offsets on the SBG bikes don't make that much of a difference, in the end you will get used to the changes the more you ride.
I think you're quite wrong, but thanks for the opinion. I rode both bikes with swapped forks and would take test rides back to back...a VERY noticeable difference!(and this is over a period of a couple weeks so I could make sure I was assessing things fairly). It may also depend on how you're riding....I look for fun lines on the trail and I mostly ride tight, twisty singletrack, so I like steering to be snappy and quick so I can get loose...I'm not pushing fast and hard on mostly descents with drawn out turns.
"I've noticed that a lot of people who enjoyed the new shorter offset forks on the SBG bikes tend to push their bikes harder than those who disliked the changes." How many people can you possibly know that ride Transitions in order to make a statement like that? How do you measure how a person is pushing "harder"? Are you watching a full ride? Timing them? Maybe they're pushing harder because it's actually harder to turn. Further, unless you've actually tried it you shouldn't give an opinion. And to comment on your second part...if you read the rest of my previous comment you'd see I had this discussion with people at Transition and my thoughts are validated, even given tips on how to change how the new bike feels.
And you're correct..I would eventually get "used to the changes"...you'll get used to anything if you have to. But, I bought a newer Scout after snapping the chainstay a third time and being told the '18 is more burly and it would suit me better. So, I don't want changes..I want the same feeling as the older Scout because it's the bike I love riding and it's a lot of fun!

I should have worded my sentence differently... However, all of this is based off of my personal experience and also those that I know who also own an SBG bike. Most of us have found that the SBG bikes do very well at high speeds. Whether that's fast flowy sections or fast chunky sections. However, slow and technical stuff the bikes feel slow and harder to manipulate.

I didn't do any scientific tests but I can name at least 10 people who own an SBG bike. They all own either a Scout, Patrol or Sentinel. With the Sentinel and Patrol being the most common in the area.

Living here in Vancouver, we all ride the North Shore regularly as well as Squamish and Whistler. Our trails are some of the best in the world. Fast, technical, flow, we have them all. So it's safe to say we don't lack any types of trails to ride our bikes on.

I'll agree with you though, these newer bikes are not as poppy as the older generations but they are definitely faster and more stable. Cornering is much better, unless they are slow corners (switchbacks, flat turns)

"unless you've actually tried it you shouldn't give an opinion"

Sorry, do I have to tell you everything that i've done before giving you an opinion?
Well to satisfy you, i've tried 4 different forks on my bike and have currently settled with a DVO Diamond with a reduced off set. I've tried 2 Fox 36 with both offsets and a Lyrik as well. I have found that the standard offset made the bike harder to maneuver at slower speeds but once you got to a relatively fast speed on the trail, it didn't make much of a difference until you went into fast corners.

I settled on a short offset fork because it felt more comfortable on faster corners as well as the bike park.

From what i've read, it seems like you're just on the wrong type of bike. Have you considered a bike like the 5010? Newer transition bikes are getting slacker and longer and it sounds like you prefer bikes that are steeper and have shorter wheelbases and chainstays.

Posted: May 24, 2019 at 8:33 Quote
I have both a Sentinel and Smuggler (SBG). I have a reduced offset fork on the Sentinel, and a standard offset one on the Smuggler. The Smuggler has noticeably twitchier steering. I would like to replace it with a short offset one if I can find a used / takeoff one. I strongly prefer stability at speed and through rough to twitchiness for slow speeds.


 
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