Transition Patrol, Scout, Sentinel & Suppressor, Giddy Up & SBG Post your bike and discuss here!

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Transition Patrol, Scout, Sentinel & Suppressor, Giddy Up & SBG Post your bike and discuss here!
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Posted: Jul 16, 2019 at 14:22 Quote
adrenalated wrote:
danielwest330 wrote:
Could someone with a 2018/19 size medium alloy patrol or sentinel measure the maximum dropper insertion? They have it on their website but it hasn't been accurate before. Thanks.

My OneUp V1 170mm dropper will go into the frame all the way to the collar on my '19 carbon medium Patrol. According to OneUp, that's 243mm. Transition website claims 225mm max insertion.
(I know the alloy is different, but hope that helps.)

When i bought my large patrol their website said it had 275mm of insertion. I measured it at about 240mm, which just barely enough to get by with my post. After complaining to them about it they re-did their measurements and now they list 225mm on the large, giving themselves some wiggle room I guess. I think their numbers are relatively safe at this point.

Of course I called and asked to double check the insertion depth BEFORE i ordered the bike and they assured me their measurements were accurate. Rolleyes

Posted: Jul 16, 2019 at 14:53 Quote
Agree or disagree? SBG set a new standard for geometry. While brands might not say it, look at how brands like Yeti are reducing fork offsets and are using a kinked downtube to get a steeper seat tube angle.

Posted: Jul 16, 2019 at 15:26 Quote
Yeah but I’m sure transition got it from somewhere also. But there is a trend going on for sure.

Posted: Jul 16, 2019 at 15:32 Quote
jackspice wrote:
Agree or disagree? SBG set a new standard for geometry. While brands might not say it, look at how brands like Yeti are reducing fork offsets and are using a kinked downtube to get a steeper seat tube angle.

I agree. Slacker head angles, steeper seat tube angles, and longer reach has been happening for a while so it's not surprising to see basically every other brand doing the same thing. But transition were the first to mess with a reduced fork offset. However, I only think that happened because Fox and RS had also been doing the same thing and were able to make forks for their bikes. My 2017 YT Jeffsy had a 46mm offset on a 29er fork and I didn't even know. YT wasn't discussing that in their marketing at all. So reduced offset forks existed, they just weren't being used. At least I think that's how it works.

Posted: Jul 16, 2019 at 15:57 Quote
Guys like Chris Porter at Mojo in the UK have been playing around with fork offsets for a while now. He was doing it the same way the Fox and RS do, by mating different wheel size uppers and lowers together. The Nicolai/Mojo Geometron was the first (I think) bike to really embrace the low, long wheelbase, long reach, slack hta, steep sta ideas. Si at Cotic and the lads at Transition (not forgetting Pole as well) were on the same page pretty quickly, but obviously developed their own ideas about exactly how far you can take the idea/what will actually sell in any number.

Posted: Jul 16, 2019 at 16:44 Quote
gbeaks33 wrote:
But transition were the first to mess with a reduced fork offset. However, I only think that happened because Fox and RS had also been doing the same thing and were able to make forks for their bikes. My 2017 YT Jeffsy had a 46mm offset on a 29er fork and I didn't even know. YT wasn't discussing that in their marketing at all. So reduced offset forks existed, they just weren't being used. At least I think that's how it works.
My understanding is Rockshox and Fox still had the tooling for 26" CSUs - the reduced offset 27.5 fork is "normal" 27.5 lowers with a 26" crown. Same with 29" - they just pair them with a 27.5" crown.

Posted: Jul 16, 2019 at 19:22 Quote
kingtut87 wrote:
Guys like Chris Porter at Mojo in the UK have been playing around with fork offsets for a while now. He was doing it the same way the Fox and RS do, by mating different wheel size uppers and lowers together. The Nicolai/Mojo Geometron was the first (I think) bike to really embrace the low, long wheelbase, long reach, slack hta, steep sta ideas. Si at Cotic and the lads at Transition (not forgetting Pole as well) were on the same page pretty quickly, but obviously developed their own ideas about exactly how far you can take the idea/what will actually sell in any number.

Then Pole, then Transition?

Posted: Jul 16, 2019 at 19:50 Quote
I think Pole had their bikes in the market before Transition got the SBG bikes out, but exactly who started working on what and when, I have no idea.

Posted: Jul 17, 2019 at 0:54 Quote
OllyHodgson wrote:
My understanding is Rockshox and Fox still had the tooling for 26" CSUs - the reduced offset 27.5 fork is "normal" 27.5 lowers with a 26" crown. Same with 29" - they just pair them with a 27.5" crown.

That's true for the 29 using the 27 offset csu because a boost 27 crown existed. But there were no 26 crowns that were boost, so the 27 reduced offset csu had to be manufactured.

Posted: Jul 17, 2019 at 4:06 Quote
jackspice wrote:
Agree or disagree? SBG set a new standard for geometry. While brands might not say it, look at how brands like Yeti are reducing fork offsets and are using a kinked downtube to get a steeper seat tube angle.
I think it was actually me a few years ago using a 26 inch Fox 40 on my Transition TR500 with 27.5 wheels. I had to lower the ride height in the clamps, but found out it rode amazing due to the ROSFL. (I only tried it because I was too tight to buy a proper pair of 27.5 fox 40's! Ha ha

Posted: Jul 17, 2019 at 12:55 Quote
jackspice wrote:
Agree or disagree? SBG set a new standard for geometry. While brands might not say it, look at how brands like Yeti are reducing fork offsets and are using a kinked downtube to get a steeper seat tube angle.
Kona also used redused offset forks on their bikes a while ago, a friend owns an early 2016 kona process 153 wiith 42mm offset, kona never used the redused offset as in marketing though, it's one of the reasons those damn bikes handle so well without being to slack and excessively long. Now everything gets slackerer and shortere r at the offset Smile ????????????????????

Posted: Jul 17, 2019 at 13:34 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
jackspice wrote:
Agree or disagree? SBG set a new standard for geometry. While brands might not say it, look at how brands like Yeti are reducing fork offsets and are using a kinked downtube to get a steeper seat tube angle.
Kona also used redused offset forks on their bikes a while ago, a friend owns an early 2016 kona process 153 wiith 42mm offset, kona never used the redused offset as in marketing though, it's one of the reasons those damn bikes handle so well without being to slack and excessively long. Now everything gets slackerer and shortere r at the offset Smile ????????????????????
correct me if I’m wrong here but 42mm is a standard offset for a 27.5 fork. Transition dropped that number to 37 which is the reduced offset for a 27.5 fork

Posted: Jul 17, 2019 at 13:38 Quote
Yup, 43mm or there abouts would be shorter for a 29er fork or standard for a 650b I think. the Transition 650b bikes use 37mm offset forks.
I think Giant went the opposite way when they first released the new Reign and used a longer offset fork, 46mm IIRC.

Posted: Jul 17, 2019 at 14:35 Quote
Transition's side of the story in this video.
https://www.transitionbikes.com/Feature_BehindTheBikesLaborOfLove.cfm
I remember reading in an interview they were definitely influenced by Pole. Apparently Transition was able to convince Fox and RS to build the reduced offset forks for the mass market?

Posted: Jul 17, 2019 at 14:46 Quote
I think the geometry is here to stay. Even more mainstream, conservative brands like Santa Cruz, Specialized, and Yeti are cranking up the STA, and slackening up the HTA. Reach is universally increasing. It's not just a fad, these bikes definitely ride better than the previous generation, both up and down the hill.

I think the fork offset thing will probably hang around, but won't become the new standard. There's pros and cons to both, depending on what and how you ride, and the effect remains subtle. My Smuggler feels a bit more nimble than my Sentinel, but I couldn't say for certain that it's due to fork offset (51 on Smuggler, 44 on Sentinel) or difference in head angles.


 
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