Official Vernon Riders Thread

PB Forum :: Canada - West
Official Vernon Riders Thread
Author Message
Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 12:03 Quote
vernonjeff wrote:
Some pretty tough words for NOCS and Noble Canyon. There is no active building in Noble. We are maintaining what is there. If NOCS wants to help out then great if not they dont have to ride it or help at all. No one has asked for help or an opinion.

At what point do we stop maintaining existing trails there?

Seen that....

A lot of what I've predicted is coming to fruition and the same BS is probably gonna happen to the south - gillard. Unfortunately this isn't coming from nocs, they are simply the messenger, the provincial government is using them; a scapegoat. It's happening all over the province and its forcing clubs to make very difficult discussions which is negatively affecting their trails, their volunteer builders and their communities.
Shoot me a pm if ya wanna discuss.

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 12:09 Quote
If the trail association doesn't provide an experience for a group of users, said users will more than likely create the experience they desire. A lot of the trail associations need to advocate for new harder trails.... not just smooth bermed trails.

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 12:17 Quote
jaydawg69 wrote:
If the trail association doesn't provide an experience for a group of users, said users will more than likely create the experience they desire. A lot of the trail associations need to advocate for new harder trails.... not just smooth bermed trails.

F#kn Preach it Brother! Serious lack of Death-Core trails in Vernon... What's a guy gonna let it hang out on? Squamish has certain near Death trails. Wish Vernon was that Metal!

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 15:01 Quote
ridayobike wrote:
jaydawg69 wrote:
If the trail association doesn't provide an experience for a group of users, said users will more than likely create the experience they desire. A lot of the trail associations need to advocate for new harder trails.... not just smooth bermed trails.

F#kn Preach it Brother! Serious lack of Death-Core trails in Vernon... What's a guy gonna let it hang out on? Squamish has certain near Death trails. Wish Vernon was that Metal!

You guys are breaking your own vrt rules but I guess with how limp the contents been lately all rules are off the table....

Clubs can't advocate for what they're not allowed to do....Whistler trail standards state no double black trails allowed and rstbc has been cracking down on the few double blacks that exist out there.

As for squamish, these metal trails you speak of are not legit, often not on trailforks and one of the main rogue builders was recently asked to stop or legal action was coming his was via rstbc. Sorca then hired him to run their trail crew and in his contract it states hes not allowed to build illegal trails.

Dark times my friends

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 15:12 Quote
k-towntrailryder wrote:
ridayobike wrote:
jaydawg69 wrote:
If the trail association doesn't provide an experience for a group of users, said users will more than likely create the experience they desire. A lot of the trail associations need to advocate for new harder trails.... not just smooth bermed trails.

F#kn Preach it Brother! Serious lack of Death-Core trails in Vernon... What's a guy gonna let it hang out on? Squamish has certain near Death trails. Wish Vernon was that Metal!

You guys are breaking your own vrt rules but I guess with how limp the contents been lately all rules are off the table....

Clubs can't advocate for what they're not allowed to do....Whistler trail standards state no double black trails allowed and rstbc has been cracking down on the few double blacks that exist out there.

As for squamish, these metal trails you speak of are not legit, often not on trailforks and one of the main rogue builders was recently asked to stop or legal action was coming his was via rstbc. Sorca then hired him to run their trail crew and in his contract it states hes not allowed to build illegal trails.

Dark times my friends

There's some pretty scary trails @ Alice Lake in Squamish bro.... Maybe your gnar scale is less sensitive than XB's .... There's a few steep lines that almost don't look Rideable on some legit trails there for sure...

Tell you the truth, XB not much cares in real life: old, bitter to the crust. Mostly ride road now, lol.

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 15:23 Quote
ridayobike wrote:
Tell you the truth, XB not much cares in real life: old, bitter to the crust. Mostly ride road now, lol.

Half those trails are on the Cheema lands and therefore dont follow under the jurisdiction of rstbc

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 15:31 Quote
k-towntrailryder wrote:
ridayobike wrote:
Tell you the truth, XB not much cares in real life: old, bitter to the crust. Mostly ride road now, lol.

Half those trails are on the Cheema lands and therefore dont follow under the jurisdiction of rstbc

Ok, fair enough....

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 16:52 Quote
k-towntrailryder wrote:
ridayobike wrote:
jaydawg69 wrote:
If the trail association doesn't provide an experience for a group of users, said users will more than likely create the experience they desire. A lot of the trail associations need to advocate for new harder trails.... not just smooth bermed trails.

F#kn Preach it Brother! Serious lack of Death-Core trails in Vernon... What's a guy gonna let it hang out on? Squamish has certain near Death trails. Wish Vernon was that Metal!

You guys are breaking your own vrt rules but I guess with how limp the contents been lately all rules are off the table....

Clubs can't advocate for what they're not allowed to do....Whistler trail standards state no double black trails allowed and rstbc has been cracking down on the few double blacks that exist out there.

As for squamish, these metal trails you speak of are not legit, often not on trailforks and one of the main rogue builders was recently asked to stop or legal action was coming his was via rstbc. Sorca then hired him to run their trail crew and in his contract it states hes not allowed to build illegal trails.

Dark times my friends

There is no reason why trail advocacy groups can't lobby for harder trails... Land Managers are not responsible for injuries (read BC Occupiers Liability Act) and it is what a large percentage of riders are looking for. Advocacy groups need to act on behalf of all mtb riders (ebikes don't count) otherwise that segment will not support the advocacy group and build their own.

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 17:13 Quote
jaydawg69 wrote:
There is no reason why trail advocacy groups can't lobby for harder trails... Land Managers are not responsible for injuries (read BC Occupiers Liability Act) and it is what a large percentage of riders are looking for. Advocacy groups need to act on behalf of all mtb riders (ebikes don't count) otherwise that segment will not support the advocacy group and build their own.

Sort of...

Steep squamish slab lines technically fall under the fair game category you're right but the terrain doesnt dictate these types of trails here so we need to build ttf's, both wooden and dirt and as soon as you start building structures the crown has a duty of care to ensure these structures are safe and dont pose any serious risk or harm and therefore assume all liability. That's why double black trails can't exist and clubs are unable to advocate for them.

"(3)Despite subsection (1), an occupier has no duty of care to a person in respect of risks willingly assumed by that person other than a duty not to

(a)create a danger with intent to do harm to the person or damage to the person's property, or

(b)act with reckless disregard to the safety of the person or the integrity of the person's property."


I 100% agree though, serve the people or the people will serve themselves...unfortunately compliance and enforcement can slap you with some pretty heavy fines and possible jail time although it hasnt happened yet, several groups have been threatened.

I wanna know why imba canada isn't taking this on? They're currently a meaningless advocacy group with hardly any support and if they were to take this on and succeed it could be a huge turning point for them...

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 18:09 Quote
This sh#t is getting Technical... Getting popcorn... Cracks a beer.

Posted: Jan 20, 2020 at 19:19 Quote
k-towntrailryder wrote:
jaydawg69 wrote:
There is no reason why trail advocacy groups can't lobby for harder trails... Land Managers are not responsible for injuries (read BC Occupiers Liability Act) and it is what a large percentage of riders are looking for. Advocacy groups need to act on behalf of all mtb riders (ebikes don't count) otherwise that segment will not support the advocacy group and build their own.

Sort of...

Steep squamish slab lines technically fall under the fair game category you're right but the terrain doesnt dictate these types of trails here so we need to build ttf's, both wooden and dirt and as soon as you start building structures the crown has a duty of care to ensure these structures are safe and dont pose any serious risk or harm and therefore assume all liability. That's why double black trails can't exist and clubs are unable to advocate for them.

"(3)Despite subsection (1), an occupier has no duty of care to a person in respect of risks willingly assumed by that person other than a duty not to

(a)create a danger with intent to do harm to the person or damage to the person's property, or

(b)act with reckless disregard to the safety of the person or the integrity of the person's property."


I 100% agree though, serve the people or the people will serve themselves...unfortunately compliance and enforcement can slap you with some pretty heavy fines and possible jail time although it hasnt happened yet, several groups have been threatened.

I wanna know why imba canada isn't taking this on? They're currently a meaningless advocacy group with hardly any support and if they were to take this on and succeed it could be a huge turning point for them...

The Act basically states the land manager/owner is not responsible/liable if someone gets hurt on their land. People take responsibility for their actions on private land, provincial crown land and within municipalities and regional
districts. The Land manger/owner is only negligent if they basically sabotage a ttf in regard to biking.

The liability the land mangers spew is complete garbage. They think putting up signs negates any liability but it really isn't needed.

Make black trails great again!

https://www.orcbc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/OccupiersLiabilityAct_FAQs.pdf

Posted: Jan 21, 2020 at 11:51 Quote
”The RMOW recognizes Expert Unlimited as a difficulty level but due to the small size of the user group, the RMOW will not pursue ownership of these trails, however there may be some of these elements on a trail provided there is a clearly defined alternate route around.“
whistler trail standards

This wording suggests they don’t advocate for double black for reasons of it’s small user base, not risk. Of course, the wording could also be purposefully misleading

Posted: Jan 21, 2020 at 13:48 Quote
6ix9inejay, you're just repeated yourself and seem to have drank the Lee loud cool aid. I agree that gnar is where it's at but if I also think it's important to understand the facts and stay on point, arguing a point way out in left field and holding it dear to your heart isn't gonna help the big picture unfortunately.

Yes land owners are waved or liability but they also have a duty of care to remove all inherent risk. You can't legally fill a swimming pool with water without having fencing around it and you can't leave an open excavation unattended without signage and fencing for the same reason. What you and I see as a perfectly good gap jump or drop is a huge liability (cash grab) for a lawyer and a massive risk to a land owner.

Poached ninja, the whistler trail standards document is now 16 years old and written by the municipality of whistler, not the whistler bike park. 16 years ago there were a lot of really f*cking cool trails and a lot of gnar, this document was written with a lot of open ended statements on purpose...it allows for interpretation as things evolve. Unfortunately we've seen a lot of the gnar decay, not get rebuilt and the standards seem to be getting interpreted more and more conservatively every year.

This past year rstbc had a risk audit done by an external entity and it was found that they are in bad shape and it's my understanding that a crackdown is happening. These are lawyers and government officials who don't mountain bike deciding how we're gonna be riding in 5 years.

As I said a while back, the nobel canyon assessment was sitting on rstbc's desk a year ago, I saw it the last time I was there. Coincidentally a gillard report is due within the same timeline as the nobel report. Funny thing is the tax payers payed for a report 5 years ago for gillard and for the most part we were impressed with it but have been told it's no good and that rstbc needed to do an internal report instead. I'm reading this as it's not a plan to make the trails better but a plan to reduce risk and liability for rstbc. When I saw the nocs newsletter stating that the nobel report was dropping within a similar timeline it threw some red flags.

I really hope I'm wrong.....

As for going rogue, nobel wont be safe after this as it's on their radar now.
In the last 2 years a squamish builder was hit with a major threat and publicly announced his retirement as a trail builder. 2 crews in the Fraser valley got hit with cease and desist orders, threatened stumpage fees and had their stuff cut down. Chiilwack parks society was hit with a cease and desist order, a castlegar club member was hit with a cease and desist order, revy club had shit hit the fan over a new trail and 8 years ago gillard got hit with a cease and desist order.

Posted: Jan 21, 2020 at 13:54 Quote
Wonder why Kelowna got hit first......?

They had sick gaps over Barbed wire fences, Wutt liability.




Holy Yo mama's growing in with trees,

Planning out the landing on the new transfer.

Posted: Jan 21, 2020 at 14:36 Quote
k-towntrailryder wrote:
ridayobike wrote:
jaydawg69 wrote:
If the trail association doesn't provide an experience for a group of users, said users will more than likely create the experience they desire. A lot of the trail associations need to advocate for new harder trails.... not just smooth bermed trails.

F#kn Preach it Brother! Serious lack of Death-Core trails in Vernon... What's a guy gonna let it hang out on? Squamish has certain near Death trails. Wish Vernon was that Metal!

You guys are breaking your own vrt rules but I guess with how limp the contents been lately all rules are off the table....


Dark times my friends

Ha. I like it.


Long story short. Do what’s right for you. Talk about it less.

Anyone seen a stop work order?


 
Copyright © 2000 - 2020. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.009269
Mobile Version of Website