DEBATE: U.S.A.

Author Message
flag ov3r1d3
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 at 19:25 Quote
Pretty much none they were the old worlds version of a dictatorship............ Im sure the colonists would rather have had a peaceful break with the British but considering the conditions that many of the colonists found themselves in America to begin with it wasnt likely, but it all works out, the Brits are one our best allies and one of the worlds greatest cultures........ they gave us Led Zeppelin!!!!!!!!
flag signorvince2
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 at 21:18 Quote
AqueousBeef wrote:
ov3r1d3 wrote:
I dont think many of the people commenting have been to Mexico and seen how its run or what the people put up with and do nothing about. Something to keep in mind America was formed as a reaction to unfair treatment from the British thats why the colonists stood up to them. Why dont the Mexicans take back THEIR resource rich and beautiful country from their corrupt leaders?Their govt produces literature on how to cross the border illegally and now money sent back is their #1 source of revenue!
#3 actually Big Grin . Yeah it bothers me too, a lot actually, but we can't just deport ALL the ones that are already here...

Because then the politicians would lose thousands of voters after they grant them amnesty
flag marty660
Posted: Sep 15, 2008 at 8:33 Quote
F*ck guys. Learn some history.
Look at every other country in the world at the time of America's indpendance. We have France, which ruled under the idea of "absolutism" - that is, the king has absolute power. We have Spain, which was much the same, except the Church had a much larger role. Prussia was basically a military dictatorship, and the concept of a united German state was scarcely imagined. In Russia, serfdom was accepted as the most effecient way.
Then we have England, where the powers of the King were severely handicapped by Parliament and its laws. Where people were kicked out of the country for being religious bigots. Where scientists all over Europe had come because it was a safe haven from the oppresive Catholic Church.
I don't mean to paint England as having been an utopia, they were stuck in the times with their empirical ambitions and such. However, it is quite ironic that what's deemed as one of the most liberating moments in history really didn't accomplish anything for a good while, and that it was against what is considered to have been a liberal force for the time. Just because they had a king doesn't mean it was an evil empire. There've been lots of good kings, just a lot of bad ones too.
And they gave us Led Zeppelin.

And Rys Canada officially gained independance in 1867, the Brits controlled us legally for some time after (therefore "The Dominion of Canada") but we started making all of our decisions right around WW2. We technically became fully indpendant in '82 but it didn't mean much at all.
flag ov3r1d3
Posted: Sep 15, 2008 at 16:02 Quote
Most of the people who fled for religious reasons werent bigots, the king had plenty of power to make your life miserable if he saw fit and living under the empires rule was harsh enough that many were willing to brave an uncertain trip to an unknown land for a better life. Im pretty sure gaining freedom from the worlds biggest empire was a pretty good feeling for those who fought for it, their spirit is still here today............. my bloodline among them
flag FriedRys
Posted: Sep 15, 2008 at 17:52 Quote
The British were never known for just letting things go, hell, when did India get their independence '47, 49'? Ireland?
flag signorvince2
Posted: Sep 15, 2008 at 20:02 Quote
ov3r1d3 wrote:
Most of the people who fled for religious reasons werent bigots, the king had plenty of power to make your life miserable if he saw fit and living under the empires rule was harsh enough that many were willing to brave an uncertain trip to an unknown land for a better life. Im pretty sure gaining freedom from the worlds biggest empire was a pretty good feeling for those who fought for it, their spirit is still here today............. my bloodline among them

Not back then it wasn't.
flag marty660
Posted: Sep 16, 2008 at 10:48 Quote
ov3r1d3 wrote:
Most of the people who fled for religious reasons werent bigots, the king had plenty of power to make your life miserable if he saw fit and living under the empires rule was harsh enough that many were willing to brave an uncertain trip to an unknown land for a better life. Im pretty sure gaining freedom from the worlds biggest empire was a pretty good feeling for those who fought for it, their spirit is still here today............. my bloodline among them

The American government after the revolution was still by modern standards bloodthirsty. You guys invaded Canada in 1812 for no reason. Slavery was considered integral to the system.
Yes the King could have any poor peasant killed for no reason. But then so could the President.
If you want I could actually bring my references out and tell you a bunch of things that show that Britain was a liberal country (FOR THE TIMES).
And Rys we're talking about the 1780's not the 1940's.

Note that I'm not trying to degrade your revolution. It was a wonderful thing for the world, certainly a good thing. If we accept that the modern world is a good place, and that the USA was a major catalyst in making it good, then we can therefore accept that the revolution was a good thing. I'm just saying it's funny that it happened under the yoke of the liberal British and not the French or the Russians or someone.
flag ov3r1d3
Posted: Sep 16, 2008 at 13:46 Quote
I can see your point and appreciate your knowledge and Im not saying we started out smelling like roses but liberal then vs now are very different and there were always just as many good as bad people same as today ie slavery/over aggressive actions but look what came through it all- what started it all, people who wanted to be free and treat all with respect, by the way that world map youve got is hilarious.
flag carnell
O+
Posted: Sep 16, 2008 at 22:35 Quote
Override, man i have to say its great to see someone who is willing to debate and actually listen to others oppinions!

+1 awesomeness
flag marty660
Posted: Sep 17, 2008 at 8:08 Quote
carnell wrote:
Override, man i have to say its great to see someone who is willing to debate and actually listen to others oppinions!

+1 awesomeness

+2! And thanks for that map comment.

 


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