Why does everyone hate on Specialized?

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Why does everyone hate on Specialized?
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flag TheRaven
Posted: Nov 14, 2015 at 19:05 Quote
RunsWithScissors wrote:
Too many bikes that don't have the same problems? Where are these bikes? I haven't The Santa Cruz Bronson that my boss just sold had cable routing that didn't go around a suspension pivot or through the frame in some stupid way. It also had a threaded bottom bracket shell and a head tube that doesn't use an "integrated" headset.

The Nomad that is replacing his Bronson has internal routing, but it has a better design that is easier to feed cable through, and again, no integrated headset or press fit bottom bracket, and no stupid cable routing.

Ok, but what about the major carbon delamination issues that both frames have at their bottom bracket shells? That's a bit worse i'd say. It's one thing to have a tough time with cable routing, or have to fiddle with your bottom bracket on a regular basis, but a $3000 frame that just comes apart? Add to that Santa Cruz is not nearly as accommodating in it's warranty process as Specialized.

RunsWithScissors wrote:
There's an older Ibis Mojo sitting in one of our racks that also doesn't have integrated headset or press fit bb, or shitty cable routing.

We just built up a new Mojo for one of our customers and while it DID have internal cable routing, it wasn't a pain in the ass to work with.

We also have an older Scott Spark sitting in the shop with cable routing that doesn't suck, a threaded bottom bracket and non-integrated headset.

Ok but what about the fact that neither Ibis or Scott are even in the same league with their carbon frames as Specialized? Build quality, finish, and durability are much bigger concerns than with Specialized, and again, i'd take bottom bracket and cable routing headaches any day over a broken frame.

Intense is the exact same way. They build arguably the best alloy frames in the business, but i'm not sure i'd trust one of their carbon frames. In addition, the lower pivots on both the carbon and alloy frames are a terrible design. Stones and twigs picked up by the rear tire are launched right into the pivot between the lower link and chainstay, and when the suspension compresses, they lodge themselves in the gap. Stones take nice big chunks out of the link, and can only be removed by compressing the suspension, which either means letting all the air out of the shock, or what I do, unbolting the lower shock mount. That said, my Tracer is tied with my (former) second gen Enduro for the best bike i've ever ridden. I still highly recommend Intense to anyone just as I highly recommend Specialized.

So again, I won't say that I love integrated headsets or custom shock mounts, but those things are a walk in the park compared to what alot of other brands will put you through.
flag nate35
O+
Posted: Nov 14, 2015 at 19:28 Quote
RunsWithScissors wrote:
Today at work I found another reason to hate Specialized: Internal cable routing for the dropper post on a new Enduro. Our customer decided to try to assemble his new bike himself and was in way over his head skill wise. He totally jacked up the cable to the dropper post and made a real mess out of it. There appeared to be a sleeve inside the frame made of some kind of foam that was supposed to act as a guide for the cable housing, but thanks to my customer it was all torn up to the point of being useless, so it was about an hour long fishing expedition to get cable housing down the seat tube and out of the port near the bottom bracket.

If they can't come up with a better idea than that for internal routing they should just leave well enough alone and route externally.

Not only that, but the derailleur cable and rear brake route underneath the bottom bracket. I've already had to replace the brake cable because it got a big cut in it and my derailleur cable is almost needing to be replaced as well for the same reason. $4,000 for an S Works enduro frame... Should at least have proper internal cable routing
flag nate35
O+
Posted: Nov 14, 2015 at 20:03 Quote
[Quote="TheRaven"]
nate35 wrote:
panaphonic wrote:
Enduro 29. Cs is actually 435 not 430. Bb is 351 it was originally listed as 335, then later changed to 351 ( probably because they got called out on it) which is what it actually is. Still a great bike but just goes to show spec is not to be trusted.

So because they misprinted numbers on ONE FRAME, now they "lie"? Uh huh. If you don't like Spec, that's fine, but don't invent some noble justification. Just say you don't like them, nothing wrong with that.

On Spec's customer service - this is a subject on which I am very well versed, and I completely disagree. First, you NEED to go through a shop to deal with Spec, if you try to go direct you will not get very far. Second, there are some real top-notch A-hole shops out there, especially the "concept" stores. The dealer closest to me is like this. I actually drive well out of my way to go to a smaller shop that I grew up near...those guys are great and along with Spec, provide excellent service. If you do it the right way, you'll find that Spec has some of the best warranty policies in the business. Broke your frame? No to worry, even if you were doing something stupid when it happened, and YES even if you bought it second hand, just take it back to the shop and they'll swap it for you. Spec's policy is to supply you with a current model-year, one trim HIGHER than what you had. So if my 2013 SJ Evo Expert frame broke, I would receive a 2015 S-Works Evo as a replacement. Pretty frikin awesome. Not the experience you had? Find a better shop.

Where are you getting your frame prices? Please don't tell me you are looking at MSRP on Spec's site and comparing it to online discount store prices for other brands. Dealer price on the new SJ Evo 29er frame is $3199. The Intense Spider 29c frame is $2999 as is the Pivot Mach 429 frame. I call that pretty competitive especially since I would definitely trust a Specialized carbon frame over an Intense or Pivot carbon frame (same does not go for aluminum though).

You are right on one thing though, you might get sued for your comments, and I might get sued for listing prices online.

I've broken frames and stays from specialized multiple times I've had some replaced for free, but sometimes I've had to buy a crash replacement. There's really no consistency with them. Sometimes they're good to work with sometimes they totally screw you over. I've had other issues just trying to figure out simple questions like spoke length. If you want good customer service deal with Crank Brothers and SRAM / Rock Shox. If anything breaks, they will almost always just give you a brand new one no questions asked. I've had a ton of dealing with both companies and had awesome service everytime..... And fast. It's taken specialized over 8 weeks to get me a crash replacement frame before. Oh yeah, and by the way in regards to your comment about them making a mistake on the numbers? If you print up numbers that are not accurate, you're either a f****** idiot or you're trying to punk the customer by specing #'s that look more desirable. Either way it's unacceptable. Now let's discuss frame prices... $4,000 for a carbon enduro frame. Comes with a crappy proprietary shock and seatpost. No internal cable routing and the chainstays not even carbon! So essentially, $4,000 for half a carbon frame. Santa Cruz Nomad frame out the door under $3,000. Full carbon, threaded bb, external grease port, and really nice cable routing. My crash replacement enduro frame cost me twenty six hundred bucks out the door. I can't recall I've ever even seen a frame cost $4,000 before. Can you find me a frame, any frame that cost $4,000 or more? I don't believe I've ever seen one before.
I really like my enduro, it's one of the funnest bikes I've ever had. It's overpriced and It has some lame design issues but I still love it..... Make no mistake though, spec is a bastard of a company and there's a whole lotta reasons to not like them.
flag TheRaven
Posted: Nov 15, 2015 at 10:09 Quote
nate35 wrote:
I've broken frames and stays from specialized multiple times I've had some replaced for free, but sometimes I've had to buy a crash replacement. There's really no consistency with them. Sometimes they're good to work with sometimes they totally screw you over. I've had other issues just trying to figure out simple questions like spoke length. If you want good customer service deal with Crank Brothers and SRAM / Rock Shox. If anything breaks, they will almost always just give you a brand new one no questions asked. I've had a ton of dealing with both companies and had awesome service everytime..... And fast. It's taken specialized over 8 weeks to get me a crash replacement frame before.

Again, SHOP. Find a better dealer. And on SRAM, I have not had the same positive experience you have..that's another can of worms in itself. Can't comment on Crank Bro's cause i've never had to use their customer service.

nate35 wrote:
Now let's discuss frame prices... $4,000 for a carbon enduro frame. Comes with a crappy proprietary shock and seatpost. No internal cable routing and the chainstays not even carbon! So essentially, $4,000 for half a carbon frame. Santa Cruz Nomad frame out the door under $3,000. Full carbon, threaded bb, external grease port, and really nice cable routing. My crash replacement enduro frame cost me twenty six hundred bucks out the door. I can't recall I've ever even seen a frame cost $4,000 before. Can you find me a frame, any frame that cost $4,000 or more? I don't believe I've ever seen one before.

Where are you getting $4000 for an Enduro frame? You won't even pay that much for the S-Works frame! The Expert is $3199, and the S-works is $3499. Either you are looking at MSRP on the site or an a-hole shop. So yeah, the Enduro Carbon frame is a little more expensive than the Nomad carbon frame, but then again, you don't have to worry about your bottom bracket shell shattering on the trail because the carbon delaminated on your Enduro. pretty big deal if you ask me.

nate35 wrote:
I really like my enduro, it's one of the funnest bikes I've ever had. It's overpriced and It has some lame design issues but I still love it..... Make no mistake though, spec is a bastard of a company and there's a whole lotta reasons to not like them.

Now this is fair. I won't disagree.
flag MX298
Posted: Nov 15, 2015 at 15:22 Quote
Ryan83@ I disagree with you saying it's not Specialized fault if your local Specialized shop sucks. . . . . I have contacted Specialized about how poor their local shop was and they actually acknowledged they knew about it . . . . . . Nothing changed! ! !

 


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