Marzocchi 380 Master Thread

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Marzocchi 380 Master Thread
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flag way2manyhobbies2keep
Posted: Jan 20, 2016 at 9:46 Quote
Hello All,

I wanted to start a master thread for 380 tuning and repair as 2 years into production people know very little.

I have a 2014 380cr2r ti I have been working with for over a year now and I have learned some things.

Full rebuild details starting on page 3

initially almost all 2014 models came spec'd with a 5.5 nm spring, which even at 150lb/ 68kg there was no mid travel support, but I also couldnt bottom the fork out, Even with the settings set to full hard and full preload, the fork was too soft.

I put in the supplied 6.5nm steel spring and it helped alot, but the steel spring is noisy, and clunks like a fox, so I put in a ti fox blue spring which is close to 7nm and it was silent but dampening suffered, and still I could only make 6" of travel.

If you take your left fork cap off (which has the preload adjuster) you will see a long black plasic shaft, very phallic looking, and if you look down the fork leg you will see another rod with a rubber top. this is the bottom out system, when the two rods meet they compress a second much harder spring in the lower of the fork, hence why the fork ramps up HARD at 6"+ of travel.

Now take your spring out and re-install the fork cap/preload adjuster and cycle the fork, now you can get a feel for the spring rate of the second spring and measure to see if the fork hard bottoms before 8", mine stopped at 7.5"

I contacted Marz, here in the US the only tech was Massimo, the guy is a not fun to work with, he tried to feed me bullshit and wouldn't admit to any problem with the fork. He said the fork needed to be revalved for the stiffer springrate and if I sent it in for $80 he would revalve it, after paying shipping both ways just within CA, this was $120 service.

Upon the return of my fork, the notes said revalve and trimmed rubber bumper to make full travel (thats a warranty issue imo). The new valving made the fork so stiff, i would liken it to getting on a 200lb persons bike, super stiff, noticeably different. The silver lining here, now my fork feels awesome with my 5.5nm ti spring and I couldn't be happier.

So why am I whining, because Marz was full of shit, and used my money to fix their shortcomings. But if you are having the same problems I did, these are simple solutions.

I look forward to more feedback from you guys

Is your fork experiencing stiction? Here's a note from @potato for diagnosing
On top of this advice I have a couple other points.

I pull the fork off both the crowns.
Cycle the damper side, is it plush as you think?
Cycle the spring side, with the top cap off, is it good?

I started with 200ml of oil in the spring side, because I wanted a more progressive travel, but I lowered down to 100ml and that improved the plushness.

Also the crown bolts need to be torqued properly, not overly tight.
Bottom crown first.
Then top crown with the steerer bolt loose and top cap lightly finger tight.

Loosely mount the wheel with axle, cycle the fork and see if it is as plush as you expect.
Tighten the steerer bolt, and top cap. Check plushness.
Start tightening the axle and check plushness.

And like said before you need to narrow down where the stiffness is coming from.
Which leg? Axle?
flag way2manyhobbies2keep
Posted: Jan 20, 2016 at 10:03 Quote
As stated earlier, the 2014 manual said 60cc/ml, 2015+ says 80ml, and I'm not the first person to hear more is better

When removing the compression unit, DO NOT TURN HIGH SPEED ALL THE WAY OUT. this caused my compression unit to seperate and drop all the shims. The oil had them all stuck together so it was easy to re-assemble after I damn near had a heart attack and called Naz.

When re-installing the compression unit, make sure low speed compression is turned all the way out

Removing the damper,
first remove the rebound knobs, on the r2c2 this is done by removing the set grub screw with a tiny allen, i am unsure of size.under the rebound know is the HRS key which is 7mm, you will need to hold this with a mm wrench or socket while loosening the 14mm base nut. assuming the crown is already off the forks, use a 33mm socket to remove the top cap.
while over an oil pan, remove the damper, the fork leg is now free floating, you can pull it out if you want.
[PI=https://www.pinkbike.com/u/jewpowered/album/Marzocchi-380/?directtolastphoto size=l0 align=c][/PI]
Clamp the damper gently in a vice as shown, With a 26mm cone wrench ($8 from park on amazon) you can index the HSC know to the flat spots on the top cap, make sure your HSC is not turned all the way out! but your LSR should be all the way out. If the HSR is turned all the way out during disassemble it can drop the shims which was an easy fix, but a cause of an anxious beer break. Using your wrench turn the cap all the way out, keep a hand on top as its under pressure and keep a rag handy, there will be oil!


photo
Once removed, remove the damper from the vice and pour/cycle out all oil, return the damper to the vice, fill the damper with 7.5wt oil about 3inches from the top, slowly cycle the leg until all the bubbles are out, if you cycle it fast, you're gonna spray oil (SON OF A BITCH). Fill the damper to 67mm from the top (2 5/8") doesn't have to be exact

When re-installing the compression unit, did you make sure the LSC is all the way out?, with a rag wrap the damper compensation ports(bleed holes), if you don't it will spray oil in a stream out both sides (MOTHERF****). Press the compression unit in with moderate force and screw it down a thread or two before switching to your wrench to finish it off. Your Done! Re-install in reverse order. oil instructions below
photo
To remove the Spring side, I like to remove the top cap (33mm) and spring first and drain the leg. On the bottom of the leg its secured by a 14mm nut, once again you will need to secure the middle with a 8mm allen, with the nut removed you can remove the leg, the spring assemble is attached to the leg with a snap ring, remove the snap ring and out comes the base and elastomer.
photo
My elastomer measured 6" as Marzocchi had already trimmed it. I further trimmed mine down to 5" using a utility knife in a sawing action.

After reinstalling the spring base assembly back into the (cleaned) leg and re-installing the snap ring, I reinstalled the leg into the fork and tightened the base nut, there is more than one way to skin a pig here so feel free to deviate. I filled the spring leg from the top and re-installed the spring and top cap. As recommended I filled the leg with 150cc/ml of 7.5 weight, but for this leg you can really use any weight you want! Should have used the shit tons of Maxima 10wt I have running around. Spring side is done!

I slid the right leg gently into the lowers, grease is recommended, then installed/screwed the damper into the leg, pulling the leg out just enough to leave a gap at the hole int the lowers, I added 110cc/ml of 7.5wt to the damper leg through the hole and re-installed the base nut.


Update 09/17


Installed the updated bumper, uncut it is far more compliant and linear, still only using about 7" of travel but it racks well

photo

went down to 110cc of oil in each leg

3 years on the original seals! I should have replaced them but I want to see how long they will go

I removed the shrink wrap and immediately regret it, from silent to rattling


I checked my high speed shim stack and it looks like the largest 27mm? shim I have a 4 stack of and then 1 each down from there

Also, I did a couple other things.

photo
flag seismicninja
Posted: Jan 22, 2016 at 18:38 Quote
Good thread dude. I'm looking to possibly pick up a 380 c2r2 so I'll be checking in with you if I have any questions. I love to tinker with forks so hopefully I can pick one up and mod it if needed.
flag mark3
Posted: Jan 24, 2016 at 3:23 Quote
great wright up, I bought the 2015 380 cr, put in a second hand ti spring 6.5nm, like you I think it needs a bit more support in the middle of the travel, I have got it set up pretty good but may get the cartridge reshimmed later on when I have had a bit more time riding them
flag jazzawil
O+
Posted: Feb 13, 2016 at 14:43 Quote
after watching the Windwave 350 travel change video and reading their blog page I just did a oil change on my new 350cr. pretty simple.

Is it safe to say the 380c2r2 is a similar procedure, just more oil in the lowers?
I had 888s for years and did all my own servicing, im just a little unsure about the dbc cartridge, how it works and the procedure to change the oil. very hard to find any info on these things!
flag mark3
Posted: Feb 14, 2016 at 10:25 Quote
I decided to have my 380's set up by J-TECH suspension in the uk, they did a fantastic job on them by shimming and revalving the compression settings to suit my body weight of 84kg with riding kit on, the forks are as plush as standard in the first few inches of travel then have a lot more mid range support ramping up to full travel very well, they also cut down the bump stop to achieve the full 200mm travel. so far as I can tell it was worth every penny of the £60 they charged inc postage, highly recommended
flag cksequoia
Posted: Feb 18, 2016 at 23:12 Quote
Mark3 - Picked up a x-heavy spring but Fox doesn't have anyone trained on the 380 line yet from the Marzocchi acquisition ;( Since you've done a spring replacement on your 380CR, is it true you only need to replace the left side which houses the spring and replace any lost oil? The right side contains the cartridge so no second spring required?
Appreciate assistance on this...Thanks
flag way2manyhobbies2keep
Posted: Feb 19, 2016 at 8:31 Quote
cksequoia wrote:
Mark3 - Picked up a x-heavy spring but Fox doesn't have anyone trained on the 380 line yet from the Marzocchi acquisition ;( Since you've done a spring replacement on your 380CR, is it true you only need to replace the left side which houses the spring and replace any lost oil? The right side contains the cartridge so no second spring required?
Appreciate assistance on this...Thanks

most modern forks only use one spring, so yes you are correct, the left fork leg, remove the cap and the spring, then put in the new one, you can replace the estimated oil, but remember oil level isn't precise on the spring side, its only for lubrication.

Talking to Ronnie @ DVO who used to be the Marz tech for world cup teams, you can also add excess oil to the spring side to reduce the air in the chamber and add a little ramp up, though I never did this
flag ibex
Posted: Feb 19, 2016 at 9:23 Quote
Hello!

What's the weight of the 2015 380 Ti?
Did anyone verify directly?
(Official figures tend to be off most of the time).

How does the 380 Ti feel? Is there the classic known MZ feel in them?

Thanks.
flag cksequoia
Posted: Feb 19, 2016 at 23:47 Quote
Thanks Ronnie. Will replace this weekend and see how it goes. Thanks for the info!
flag cksequoia
Posted: Feb 19, 2016 at 23:49 Quote
Correction: credit and thanks to Jewpowered Wink
flag mark3
Posted: Feb 21, 2016 at 4:49 Quote
sorry for the late reply,
fork weight seems accurate, the 380's are light. very plush as well, bit too soft for my liking so I had mine custom tuned
j-tech set my forks up with 300ml of oil on the spring side to help with the ramp up, seem to work well so far,
the spring swap is easy to do, though I would recommend facing off a six sided socket so it's flat on the end as the alloy fork spring cap has a shallow hex on it and a normal socket could damage the hex if you are not careful with it
flag madamella
Posted: Feb 23, 2016 at 8:22 Quote
I've been waiting for a this thread!
Thanks jewpowered!
I have a 2014/15 380ti bought last june 2015.the fork felt great but missing mid support it feels like I'm riding on the edge of bottoming out the fork. Jacking up the preload help to kinda sort out the issue.

also the nickel coated stanchion began chipping/flaking only after 3 rides. tried calling marz for warranty issues but no luck. I don't know what happened to them after Fox's acquisition.

Anyone having the same flaking chipping issues?

I came off a marz 66 rcv and it was bomb proof that's why I decided to get the 380ti over the 40s. I hope I didn't make a wrong choice.
flag ibex
Posted: Feb 23, 2016 at 11:18 Quote
madamella wrote:
I've been waiting for a this thread!
Thanks jewpowered!
I have a 2014/15 380ti bought last june 2015.the fork felt great but missing mid support it feels like I'm riding on the edge of bottoming out the fork. Jacking up the preload help to kinda sort out the issue.

also the nickel coated stanchion began chipping/flaking only after 3 rides. tried calling marz for warranty issues but no luck. I don't know what happened to them after Fox's acquisition.

Anyone having the same flaking chipping issues?

I came off a marz 66 rcv and it was bomb proof that's why I decided to get the 380ti over the 40s. I hope I didn't make a wrong choice.

I think they've changed the service stuff/contact details. I had a small issue with an O-ring and I dealt directly with the retailer, which sent the fork themselves to the service. Did you try to contact MZ USA?
flag madamella
Posted: Feb 23, 2016 at 16:43 Quote
ibex wrote:
madamella wrote:
I've been waiting for a this thread!
Thanks jewpowered!
I have a 2014/15 380ti bought last june 2015.the fork felt great but missing mid support it feels like I'm riding on the edge of bottoming out the fork. Jacking up the preload help to kinda sort out the issue.

also the nickel coated stanchion began chipping/flaking only after 3 rides. tried calling marz for warranty issues but no luck. I don't know what happened to them after Fox's acquisition.

Anyone having the same flaking chipping issues?

I came off a marz 66 rcv and it was bomb proof that's why I decided to get the 380ti over the 40s. I hope I didn't make a wrong choice.

I think they've changed the service stuff/contact details. I had a small issue with an O-ring and I dealt directly with the retailer, which sent the fork themselves to the service. Did you try to contact MZ USA?

I got the fork from a pb user smigshot he said even his contact person in marzocchi no longer responds to him since Fox acquired them.

Just in case, any one here tried fitting the expresso coated Stans on their 2014 380?

TIA!
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