Marzocchi 380 Master Thread

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Marzocchi 380 Master Thread
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Posted: Jan 12, 2018 at 2:58 Quote
MetalheadWolfRider wrote:
potato wrote:
sernik wrote:
I have twisted my compression settings. Bolt is spinning around. Do I need to change whole catrige?


Did you take the cartridge out and see if it is damaged?
Maybe stripped threads.

This is most probably stripped threads, happened to me and i haven't been able to get a new one. Be very careful if you're taking it out because the bottom of the compresion stack along with the stack of washers and the hsc spring. And trust me, it's extremely hard to take out. I always have the hsc and lsc fully open anyways.

They told me that its damaged. The guy who made service

Posted: Jan 16, 2018 at 17:23 Quote
Great thread, going to strip mine down this weekend now knowing what's involved.
Just one query,..the oil levels for the spring side, 110cc filled from the top,..do you not need to add some to the lowers as well or not?..
Cheers

Posted: Jan 16, 2018 at 17:31 Quote
jewpowered wrote:
As stated earlier, the 2014 manual said 60cc/ml, 2015+ says 80ml, and I'm not the first person to hear more is better

When removing the compression unit, DO NOT TURN HIGH SPEED ALL THE WAY OUT. this caused my compression unit to seperate and drop all the shims. The oil had them all stuck together so it was easy to re-assemble after I damn near had a heart attack and called Naz.

When re-installing the compression unit, make sure low speed compression is turned all the way out

Removing the damper,
first remove the rebound knobs, on the r2c2 this is done by removing the set grub screw with a tiny allen, i am unsure of size.under the rebound know is the HRS key which is 7mm, you will need to hold this with a mm wrench or socket while loosening the 14mm base nut. assuming the crown is already off the forks, use a 33mm socket to remove the top cap.
while over an oil pan, remove the damper, the fork leg is now free floating, you can pull it out if you want.
[PI=https://www.pinkbike.com/u/jewpowered/album/Marzocchi-380/?directtolastphoto size=l0 align=c][/PI]
Clamp the damper gently in a vice as shown, With a 26mm cone wrench ($8 from park on amazon) you can index the HSC know to the flat spots on the top cap, make sure your HSC is not turned all the way out! but your LSR should be all the way out. If the HSR is turned all the way out during disassemble it can drop the shims which was an easy fix, but a cause of an anxious beer break. Using your wrench turn the cap all the way out, keep a hand on top as its under pressure and keep a rag handy, there will be oil!


Once removed, remove the damper from the vice and pour/cycle out all oil, return the damper to the vice, fill the damper with 7.5wt oil about 3inches from the top, slowly cycle the leg until all the bubbles are out, if you cycle it fast, you're gonna spray oil (SON OF A BITCH). Fill the damper to 67mm from the top (2 5/8") doesn't have to be exact

When re-installing the compression unit, did you make sure the LSC is all the way out?, with a rag wrap the damper compensation ports(bleed holes), if you don't it will spray oil in a stream out both sides (MOTHERF****). Press the compression unit in with moderate force and screw it down a thread or two before switching to your wrench to finish it off. Your Done! Re-install in reverse order. oil instructions below
To remove the Spring side, I like to remove the top cap (33mm) and spring first and drain the leg. On the bottom of the leg its secured by a 14mm nut, once again you will need to secure the middle with a 8mm allen, with the nut removed you can remove the leg, the spring assemble is attached to the leg with a snap ring, remove the snap ring and out comes the base and elastomer.
My elastomer measured 6" as Marzocchi had already trimmed it. I further trimmed mine down to 5" using a utility knife in a sawing action.

After reinstalling the spring base assembly back into the (cleaned) leg and re-installing the snap ring, I reinstalled the leg into the fork and tightened the base nut, there is more than one way to skin a pig here so feel free to deviate. I filled the spring leg from the top and re-installed the spring and top cap. As recommended I filled the leg with 150cc/ml of 7.5 weight, but for this leg you can really use any weight you want! Should have used the shit tons of Maxima 10wt I have running around. Spring side is done!

I slid the right leg gently into the lowers, grease is recommended, then installed/screwed the damper into the leg, pulling the leg out just enough to leave a gap at the hole int the lowers, I added 110cc/ml of 7.5wt to the damper leg through the hole and re-installed the base nut.


Update 09/17


Installed the updated bumper, uncut it is far more compliant and linear, still only using about 7" of travel but it racks well


went down to 110cc of oil in each leg

3 years on the original seals! I should have replaced them but I want to see how long they will go

I removed the shrink wrap and immediately regret it, from silent to rattling


I checked my high speed shim stack and it looks like the largest 27mm? shim I have a 4 stack of and then 1 each down from there

Also, I did a couple other things.


Great thread, I'm going to strip mine down this weekend now knowing what's involved.
Just one query, the oil level in the spring side,.. I am going to fill with approx 110cc from the top, do the lowers need any oil in for lubrication or not?..

Cheers

Posted: Jan 16, 2018 at 19:30 Quote
The oil is free to move around the entire spring leg including the lowers, doesnt matter if it goes in the top or bottom although i prefer to put some oil on the bushings, then insert the stanchion, then fill from the bottom.

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 15:12 Quote
Can someone help me figure out what's wrong with my fork? I can't really get that plushness this fork is supposed to offer, i stripped it down, went through the exact same process you guys have posted here, went to the lightest spring possible (i'm 120 pounds) used 7.5 wt oil and molykote 55 grease, i went through EVERYTHING and i still struggle to get it plush, it hurts to ride long bike park days in this thing... there must be something i'm missing...

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 15:54 Quote
MetalheadWolfRider wrote:
Can someone help me figure out what's wrong with my fork? I can't really get that plushness this fork is supposed to offer, i stripped it down, went through the exact same process you guys have posted here, went to the lightest spring possible (i'm 120 pounds) used 7.5 wt oil and molykote 55 grease, i went through EVERYTHING and i still struggle to get it plush, it hurts to ride long bike park days in this thing... there must be something i'm missing...
Its pretty much impossible to diagnose an issue without physically being there and seeing the fork/riding it so i'll throw out some suggestions in no particular order.

1) Check for bushings binding, pop the top cap off of the spring side and unthread the top of the damper, then cycle the fork through the travel. Should pretty much compress under the weight of the bike at this point, maybe needs a tap from a pinky finger to get it going. If it takes any sort of force or its stiff/sticky or notchy anywhere then there are issues of some sort.

2) Play with rebound settings, if too slow the fork will pack up and be very harsh, especially with the soft spring in there. You will probably need to be running both the hsr and lsr pretty much full open. Could even need to tune the rebound shimstack to be lighter at your weight, but try the external adjusters first.

3) If you aren't running any compression damping, add some lsc to the fork. This will help keep the fork up higher in the travel and further prevent packing up and can actually reduce the harshness to your hands from bumps. One of the recent Tuesday Tune episodes explains this very well.

4) Also maybe try running the medium spring, it might not feel as "plush" in the parking lot but it will make the fork ride higher in the travel. It will also provide more force against the rebound damping to help extend the fork quicker again helping prevent pack up.

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 16:41 Quote
naturaltalent wrote:
MetalheadWolfRider wrote:
Can someone help me figure out what's wrong with my fork? I can't really get that plushness this fork is supposed to offer, i stripped it down, went through the exact same process you guys have posted here, went to the lightest spring possible (i'm 120 pounds) used 7.5 wt oil and molykote 55 grease, i went through EVERYTHING and i still struggle to get it plush, it hurts to ride long bike park days in this thing... there must be something i'm missing...
Its pretty much impossible to diagnose an issue without physically being there and seeing the fork/riding it so i'll throw out some suggestions in no particular order.

1) Check for bushings binding, pop the top cap off of the spring side and unthread the top of the damper, then cycle the fork through the travel. Should pretty much compress under the weight of the bike at this point, maybe needs a tap from a pinky finger to get it going. If it takes any sort of force or its stiff/sticky or notchy anywhere then there are issues of some sort.

2) Play with rebound settings, if too slow the fork will pack up and be very harsh, especially with the soft spring in there. You will probably need to be running both the hsr and lsr pretty much full open. Could even need to tune the rebound shimstack to be lighter at your weight, but try the external adjusters first.

3) If you aren't running any compression damping, add some lsc to the fork. This will help keep the fork up higher in the travel and further prevent packing up and can actually reduce the harshness to your hands from bumps. One of the recent Tuesday Tune episodes explains this very well.

4) Also maybe try running the medium spring, it might not feel as "plush" in the parking lot but it will make the fork ride higher in the travel. It will also provide more force against the rebound damping to help extend the fork quicker again helping prevent pack up.

Thanks bro, i'll try out what you said and let you know. Btw if i crank up some lsc doesn't that mean that the sensivity of the fork would be affected? My main problem is that the fork is sticky and stiff / hard to compress. No packing.It has little sensivity and it's frustrating reading everyone's posts about how good their 380s are but mine isn't haha.

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 17:05 Quote
The key is to try and isolate whe the problem may be. I would take both the damper and spring out and cycle everything seperately. That way you can feel which component may be the source. The damper (with all settings fully open) should have literally no "stickiness" besides the small resistance of oil passing through the circuits, and this should still have a "smooth" feel to it. If thats fine, then cycle the sanctions seperately and see if there is anything there. So far I have seen about 6 diffrent cases of problems in these forks that can cause some kind of sticky feel. The main one has been that the bushings where out of tolerance or not seated correctly. I've seen one other issue where the bottom of the lowers was not molded properly causing the damper to bind and eventually fail.

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 17:11 Quote
MetalheadWolfRider wrote:
naturaltalent wrote:
MetalheadWolfRider wrote:
Can someone help me figure out what's wrong with my fork? I can't really get that plushness this fork is supposed to offer, i stripped it down, went through the exact same process you guys have posted here, went to the lightest spring possible (i'm 120 pounds) used 7.5 wt oil and molykote 55 grease, i went through EVERYTHING and i still struggle to get it plush, it hurts to ride long bike park days in this thing... there must be something i'm missing...
Its pretty much impossible to diagnose an issue without physically being there and seeing the fork/riding it so i'll throw out some suggestions in no particular order.

1) Check for bushings binding, pop the top cap off of the spring side and unthread the top of the damper, then cycle the fork through the travel. Should pretty much compress under the weight of the bike at this point, maybe needs a tap from a pinky finger to get it going. If it takes any sort of force or its stiff/sticky or notchy anywhere then there are issues of some sort.

2) Play with rebound settings, if too slow the fork will pack up and be very harsh, especially with the soft spring in there. You will probably need to be running both the hsr and lsr pretty much full open. Could even need to tune the rebound shimstack to be lighter at your weight, but try the external adjusters first.

3) If you aren't running any compression damping, add some lsc to the fork. This will help keep the fork up higher in the travel and further prevent packing up and can actually reduce the harshness to your hands from bumps. One of the recent Tuesday Tune episodes explains this very well.

4) Also maybe try running the medium spring, it might not feel as "plush" in the parking lot but it will make the fork ride higher in the travel. It will also provide more force against the rebound damping to help extend the fork quicker again helping prevent pack up.

Thanks bro, i'll try out what you said and let you know. Btw if i crank up some lsc doesn't that mean that the sensivity of the fork would be affected? My main problem is that the fork is sticky and stiff / hard to compress. No packing.It has little sensivity and it's frustrating reading everyone's posts about how good their 380s are but mine isn't haha.

Sounds like a bushing issue. The 14-16 model year forks are notorius for this as brbzantonio mentioned, but seems to be fixed for the 2017 model year forks.

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 18:01 Quote
A big thanks dudes, i'll be troubleshooting tomorrow and get back to you with some results. Also, if it's a bushing issue, how do i solve it?

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 18:24 Quote
MetalheadWolfRider wrote:
A big thanks dudes, i'll be troubleshooting tomorrow and get back to you with some results. Also, if it's a bushing issue, how do i solve it?

One quick thing to try is to loosen the axle with the wheel off and then cycle the fork. On mine, the lowers were pinching the stanchions and making the fork very sticky.

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 19:00 Quote
seismicninja wrote:
MetalheadWolfRider wrote:
A big thanks dudes, i'll be troubleshooting tomorrow and get back to you with some results. Also, if it's a bushing issue, how do i solve it?

One quick thing to try is to loosen the axle with the wheel off and then cycle the fork. On mine, the lowers were pinching the stanchions and making the fork very sticky.

^^If this makes things better then it could be that the hub width is somehow out of tolerance and would be best case scenario as its an easy fix. Shims if its too narrow. Or if the hub happens to be too wide, a little bit of filing. If this does nothing and you do find that it is a bushing issue then there is really only 4 options, but let us know what you find.

1)Have new bushings installed and sized.
2)New lowers making sure they are 2017 model year and up. If you still have warranty on the fork then the lowers should be replaced under warranty and this would be the best option.
3)2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a dowel attached to a power drill and very carefully wet sand each bushing VERY lightly and BRIEFLY to slightly enlarge until the stanchions slide nicely.
4)Get a different fork (hopefully you only have a small simple issue!)

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 20:18 Quote
thanks again bros, will give an update tomorrow.

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 21:01 Quote
naturaltalent wrote:
seismicninja wrote:
MetalheadWolfRider wrote:
A big thanks dudes, i'll be troubleshooting tomorrow and get back to you with some results. Also, if it's a bushing issue, how do i solve it?

One quick thing to try is to loosen the axle with the wheel off and then cycle the fork. On mine, the lowers were pinching the stanchions and making the fork very sticky.

^^If this makes things better then it could be that the hub width is somehow out of tolerance and would be best case scenario as its an easy fix. Shims if its too narrow. Or if the hub happens to be too wide, a little bit of filing. If this does nothing and you do find that it is a bushing issue then there is really only 4 options, but let us know what you find.

1)Have new bushings installed and sized.
2)New lowers making sure they are 2017 model year and up. If you still have warranty on the fork then the lowers should be replaced under warranty and this would be the best option.
3)2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a dowel attached to a power drill and very carefully wet sand each bushing VERY lightly and BRIEFLY to slightly enlarge until the stanchions slide nicely.
4)Get a different fork (hopefully you only have a small simple issue!)

Mine started out uber plush. Like unbelievably plush. Then within a few rides got very sticky, so I am going with bushing friction and not the hub. Plus other forks work just fine on that same hub. Hopefully the new ones have all this stuff figured out, because when it was running good for the first few rides, it was an absolute animal of a fork. It was the most active fork I've ridden so far.

Posted: Jan 19, 2018 at 13:05 Quote
On top of this advice I have a couple other points.

I pull the fork off both the crowns.
Cycle the damper side, is it plush as you think?
Cycle the spring side, with the top cap off, is it good?

I started with 200ml of oil in the spring side, because I wanted a more progressive travel, but I lowered down to 100ml and that improved the plushness.

Also the crown bolts need to be torqued properly, not overly tight.
Bottom crown first.
Then top crown with the steerer bolt loose and top cap lightly finger tight.

Loosely mount the wheel with axle, cycle the fork and see if it is as plush as you expect.
Tighten the steerer bolt, and top cap. Check plushness.
Start tightening the axle and check plushness.

And like said before you need to narrow down where the stiffness is coming from.
Which leg? Axle?


 
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