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How come no bike companies use Boxxer World Cup forks?

PB Forum :: Downhill
How come no bike companies use Boxxer World Cup forks?
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Posted: Feb 8, 2017 at 15:51 Quote
Factory setting for rebound is of no concern to setting up your fork, since the rebound damping is dependant on your forks springrate. Therefore set it to some setting that feels reasonable and go from there.
Rebound damping is basically only acting against the stored energy in the spring, thus making it rather simple to setup.

Posted: Feb 8, 2017 at 16:48 Quote
So under what circumstance would someone opt for an air sprung fork like the WC or 40?
Does having an air sprung fork better suit a certain type of riding, for example flowy jump trials vs tech?

I personally have an older Boxxer RC and am contemplating an upgrade

Posted: Feb 8, 2017 at 18:02 Quote
tbsivad wrote:
I personally have an older Boxxer RC and am contemplating an upgrade

Having come from an older Boxxer RC to a much better fork myself, I can confidently say you should get a better one no matter what you end up going with. As people here say, air is easier to adjust for your weight, and also seem to ramp up more throughout its travel. I run an air fork now (dvo emerald) and I'm really happy with it.

Posted: Feb 8, 2017 at 18:41 Quote
Again, the type of spring is not the only determining factor of the forks characteristic.

Pros Air:
- Easily adjustable
- light
- extremely high end progression (if that´s important to you)
- can be set up to be extremely progressive (again, if you need it...it also makes for a harsh ride)

Negatives coil:
- higher friction due to more/tighter seals
- more prone to defects
- not a linear rate, thus often dive in midstroke


Pros coil spring:
- linear rate makes setup easier and performance more predictable. also less forkdive in midstroke
- less friction due to less seals --> smoother ride
- reliable system, spring can hardly ever fail (titanium fork springs being the exception here)

Negatives coil:
- a little more weight

There is no arguing a coil spring is the ideal spring type for great suspension performance. That´s the reason all manufacturers try to make their air springs have a linear rate (just like a coil spring). The "big" selling point for air springs is weight. Performance wise nothing beats coil.

You guys however now are mixing up damping and spring type when comparing the RC as a coil sprung fork against a high end air sprung fork.
If you´re debating whether you should upgrade from a Boxxer RC your primary concern is not the spring type. It´s upgrading from the crappy ass damper in the RC.
The RC´s coil spring is the same as in a Boxxer Team. And the Team is superior to the WC. The difference is just the damping.

Depending on your Boxxers model year it may be as easy (and cheap) as just tossing the new Charger damper cartridge in it and you´re good to go. That´ll basically make your RC into a Team.

Posted: Feb 9, 2017 at 6:37 Quote
Loki87 wrote:
Definitely not.
Both are high end air forks. Both work well.
The inherent problem of air springs is present in both forks.

If you want real performance gain, get the fork set up by a tuning company like Avalanche or PUSH.
There is also the option of the AWK upgrade if you´re willing to order from germany. It´s a small upgrade to the air chamber of the boxxer which adjusts it to mimic a coil spring. It´s easy to install and apparently really transforms the fork. It´s what i´m gonna do to my WC for this season along with a few tweaks to the Charger pistons and shimstacks.

Out of curiosity since you´re asking whether you should upgrade. Why do you feel the need to upgrade? What do you feel the Boxxer is lacking?

I am actually brand new to the downhill scene, I just see more people using a fox 40 than a WC. I would LOVE to send my WC out for upgrades and maintenance for the upcoming season and I'm very happy to hear you say you wouldn't swap. You sound pretty knowledgeable and that's great, what company should I contact to have my fork gone over? I am in the states

Posted: Feb 9, 2017 at 6:53 Quote
EAmato88 wrote:
Loki87 wrote:
Definitely not.
Both are high end air forks. Both work well.
The inherent problem of air springs is present in both forks.

If you want real performance gain, get the fork set up by a tuning company like Avalanche or PUSH.
There is also the option of the AWK upgrade if you´re willing to order from germany. It´s a small upgrade to the air chamber of the boxxer which adjusts it to mimic a coil spring. It´s easy to install and apparently really transforms the fork. It´s what i´m gonna do to my WC for this season along with a few tweaks to the Charger pistons and shimstacks.

Out of curiosity since you´re asking whether you should upgrade. Why do you feel the need to upgrade? What do you feel the Boxxer is lacking?

I am actually brand new to the downhill scene, I just see more people using a fox 40 than a WC. I would LOVE to send my WC out for upgrades and maintenance for the upcoming season and I'm very happy to hear you say you wouldn't swap. You sound pretty knowledgeable and that's great, what company should I contact to have my fork gone over? I am in the states

The WC is a really good fork. What exactly is it that you don´t like about it, because that´s really important to what needs to be changed about your fork.
If you´re just looking for "better", and are just curious about something new, contact Avalanche suspension. People have nothing but praise for the guy and apparently he takes a lot of time to talk to customers on the phone, so you´re definitely in good hands there. Another option is PUSH, another company with a great reputation.
The last option is FAST suspension, which offer a upgrade for the charger cartridge, adding high speed compression and individual setup. I don´t know about the US distributor or any service centers for FAST though, so u gotta do some research there yourself.
The last option, as i allready stated is getting the AWK kit from Germany. It´s a small part, so shipping is not a big problem. Installation is really easy by just following the installation manual. This will be to give the WC a better, more linear air spring thus enabling it to stay higher in its travel while still being able to run reduced pressure for better small bump sensitivity.

From personal experience, an individually setup fork is always better than the best/most expensive off the shelf fork. A standard fork is always setup for the average weight, average riding skill rider. If you do not fit into one of those categories, an individual setup may be just what you need.
But if you´re a beginner with average weight and skill, the standard fork may really be nearly as good as it gets for you anyways, so be honest with yourself about the whole thing and wether you really need an upgrade.
Sometimes as a beginner it´s also worth it to go make yourself familiar with suspension theory, because most beginner setups are catastrophic due to them not understanding what the adjuster on their forks do exactly. It´s not as simple as "one makes it harder, the other one softer".
To start out with this i recommend Steven Mathews youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIF1fjRe-xXWztlig1TiT5g

Posted: Feb 9, 2017 at 7:40 Quote
Loki87 wrote:
EAmato88 wrote:
Loki87 wrote:
Definitely not.
Both are high end air forks. Both work well.
The inherent problem of air springs is present in both forks.

If you want real performance gain, get the fork set up by a tuning company like Avalanche or PUSH.
There is also the option of the AWK upgrade if you´re willing to order from germany. It´s a small upgrade to the air chamber of the boxxer which adjusts it to mimic a coil spring. It´s easy to install and apparently really transforms the fork. It´s what i´m gonna do to my WC for this season along with a few tweaks to the Charger pistons and shimstacks.

Out of curiosity since you´re asking whether you should upgrade. Why do you feel the need to upgrade? What do you feel the Boxxer is lacking?

I am actually brand new to the downhill scene, I just see more people using a fox 40 than a WC. I would LOVE to send my WC out for upgrades and maintenance for the upcoming season and I'm very happy to hear you say you wouldn't swap. You sound pretty knowledgeable and that's great, what company should I contact to have my fork gone over? I am in the states

The WC is a really good fork. What exactly is it that you don´t like about it, because that´s really important to what needs to be changed about your fork.
If you´re just looking for "better", and are just curious about something new, contact Avalanche suspension. People have nothing but praise for the guy and apparently he takes a lot of time to talk to customers on the phone, so you´re definitely in good hands there. Another option is PUSH, another company with a great reputation.
The last option is FAST suspension, which offer a upgrade for the charger cartridge, adding high speed compression and individual setup. I don´t know about the US distributor or any service centers for FAST though, so u gotta do some research there yourself.
The last option, as i allready stated is getting the AWK kit from Germany. It´s a small part, so shipping is not a big problem. Installation is really easy by just following the installation manual. This will be to give the WC a better, more linear air spring thus enabling it to stay higher in its travel while still being able to run reduced pressure for better small bump sensitivity.

From personal experience, an individually setup fork is always better than the best/most expensive off the shelf fork. A standard fork is always setup for the average weight, average riding skill rider. If you do not fit into one of those categories, an individual setup may be just what you need.
But if you´re a beginner with average weight and skill, the standard fork may really be nearly as good as it gets for you anyways, so be honest with yourself about the whole thing and wether you really need an upgrade.
Sometimes as a beginner it´s also worth it to go make yourself familiar with suspension theory, because most beginner setups are catastrophic due to them not understanding what the adjuster on their forks do exactly. It´s not as simple as "one makes it harder, the other one softer".
To start out with this i recommend Steven Mathews youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIF1fjRe-xXWztlig1TiT5g

Well I bought the bike used with the fork and I know it's an older model (2011-2012) so I kind of want it serviced just to know it's fresh and ready. The other part is that I am a large rider, 250lbs. I am new to the sport of dh but not to suspension, I have been riding moto for 25 years now and I know how important good suspension is. I have only ridden dh a handful of times so far on a rental bike, I bought my bike at the end of the season in anticipation for the spring. I also anticipate that I will gain confidence and speed pretty quickly judging by how quickly I adapted so far, I think I have moto background to thank for that. Any way, I contacted PUSH and Avalanche. It looks like I'll use Avalanche because PUSH doesn't service rockshox.

Posted: Feb 9, 2017 at 7:45 Quote
Ah, ok, didn´t know push stopped the RS service.
Avalanche certainly is some quality stuff.
Since your WC is one of the older models it´s definitely worth upgrading. Compared to todays forks, those dampers are straight up crap.

Posted: Feb 9, 2017 at 8:32 Quote
Loki87 wrote:
Ah, ok, didn´t know push stopped the RS service.
Avalanche certainly is some quality stuff.
Since your WC is one of the older models it´s definitely worth upgrading. Compared to todays forks, those dampers are straight up crap.

Ok that's great to know also. Here's another thing I was wondering and I was going to talk to Avalanche about, converting to coil spring. Is it possible or even recommended? Just basing things off of my moto knowledge, I would much prefer to have a coil spring fork correctly set up for me. If not, what is the best coil spring fork that I could switch to?

Posted: Feb 9, 2017 at 8:41 Quote
Shouldn´t be a big problem to convert it. Get a spring and the correct topcap (check spare parts catalog for equivalent coil fork topcap from the same model year) and you´re good to go. Super Alloy Racing is also introducing the PSP coil soon, so maybe check that out too once it´s available.

Coil forks are hard to come by nowadays. The Boxxer Team and X-Fusion RV1 are really the only ones that come to my mind right now.
If you have moto knowledge about forks, it is really well applicable to dh as well for the most part (except some companies weird experiments with platform systems and such crap). So if you prefer coil, go for it.

If you do not want to invest too much into your old fork chassis though (age is of much higher concern on a mtb fork than moto. also the new RS castings are much better quality and offer less bushing friction), there´s another option for you. Get a cheap new or only slightly used Boxxer RC, put in an Avalanche Cartridge and you end up with a fork that´ll blow everything else outta the water. Coil, great damper, awesome customer service, all in one fork.

Posted: Feb 9, 2017 at 8:51 Quote
Loki87 wrote:
Shouldn´t be a big problem to convert it. Get a spring and the correct topcap (check spare parts catalog for equivalent coil fork topcap from the same model year) and you´re good to go. Super Alloy Racing is also introducing the PSP coil soon, so maybe check that out too once it´s available.

Coil forks are hard to come by nowadays. The Boxxer Team and X-Fusion RV1 are really the only ones that come to my mind right now.
If you have moto knowledge about forks, it is really well applicable to dh as well for the most part (except some companies weird experiments with platform systems and such crap). So if you prefer coil, go for it.

If you do not want to invest too much into your old fork chassis though (age is of much higher concern on a mtb fork than moto. also the new RS castings are much better quality and offer less bushing friction), there´s another option for you. Get a cheap new or only slightly used Boxxer RC, put in an Avalanche Cartridge and you end up with a fork that´ll blow everything else outta the water. Coil, great damper, awesome customer service, all in one fork.

Hmm. So an RC and Avalanches cartridge eh? I think I like that idea. I really appreciate your help man, can't thank you enough

Posted: Feb 9, 2017 at 8:56 Quote
Not a problem mate. Maybe still give Avalanche a call and talk it through with him, cause i´m in no way an expert and he may have something to offer i didn´t think of.

Posted: Feb 9, 2017 at 13:17 Quote
Loki87 wrote:
Not a problem mate. Maybe still give Avalanche a call and talk it through with him, cause i´m in no way an expert and he may have something to offer i didn´t think of.

Yeah for sure I'm going to let them handle what ever I end up doing

Posted: Aug 24, 2019 at 5:18 Quote
Just look up boxxer specs for rider weight . Your welcome lol it should give you a list of specs for rider weight . Thats how you need to set it up

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