Help on selecting bike (Pivot Mach 6, Evil Insurgent, Yeti SB6c)

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Help on selecting bike (Pivot Mach 6, Evil Insurgent, Yeti SB6c)
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flag tandrews87
O+
Posted: Apr 23, 2017 at 9:37 Quote
I currently own the Mach 6 and have been riding it for the past 2.5 years. It's been a really solid bike but I've been getting that itch to look around and wanted to get some opinions from some on the board. My local trails have some moderate downhills, tight switch backs, and short but steep and technical climbs. Also I do travel to CO in the summer to get some back country and bike park riding in. To be honest 6" of travel is more than needed for most of my riding but as bikes have gotten more efficient it's less of an issue. The 6" is very helpful in CO though and I'm trying to stay with one bike.

Pedaling and climbing efficiency are a must so I'm staying far away from the YT and Specialized horst link designs. I've had VPP before and while it is good I prefer DW (I don't have Ibis dealers in my area).

My stats: 5'9", 160 geared up, 32" inseam, medium reach....I'm more of a finesse rider that enjoys a playful bike and can accelerate quickly.
flag Bushamster21
Posted: Apr 23, 2017 at 13:52 Quote
The Transition Patrol hasn't been winning a bunch of awards by accident. It really is that good. It climbs a helluva lot better than some other VPP and DW bikes I've demoed. I went to a Rocky Demo a few weeks ago and Santa Cruz this past weekend. I rode the Slayer and the Bronson, and I would argue the Slayer climbs as good as or better than the Bronson. It's going to win a bunch of awards.

As for the three you're looking at, I've ridden the Mach 6 and the SB6c. I never really got along with the Mach 6 all that well. I think Pivot is behind the times with the short top-tube, long stem, and slack seat-tube. I hope to see an update soon because I really want to like that bike.

The SB6c was pretty much built from the ground up to win the EWS. It's pretty much the opposite of playful, being a much more grounded bike and to get the most out of it, you have to be going pretty quick.
flag tandrews87
O+
Posted: Apr 23, 2017 at 16:43 Quote
Bushamster21 wrote:
The Transition Patrol hasn't been winning a bunch of awards by accident. It really is that good. It climbs a helluva lot better than some other VPP and DW bikes I've demoed. I went to a Rocky Demo a few weeks ago and Santa Cruz this past weekend. I rode the Slayer and the Bronson, and I would argue the Slayer climbs as good as or better than the Bronson. It's going to win a bunch of awards.

As for the three you're looking at, I've ridden the Mach 6 and the SB6c. I never really got along with the Mach 6 all that well. I think Pivot is behind the times with the short top-tube, long stem, and slack seat-tube. I hope to see an update soon because I really want to like that bike.

The SB6c was pretty much built from the ground up to win the EWS. It's pretty much the opposite of playful, being a much more grounded bike and to get the most out of it, you have to be going pretty quick.

I will definitely check out the Transition Patrol. As far as the Mach 6 being behind the times I 100% disagree but it is all about the terrain you have to ride, everything is a tradeoff. I give up a little stability at the top end speeds when I go to bike parks due to the shorter WB and TT. However, when I'm at my local trails I can make tighter switchback climbs and quicker turns than similar travel bikes due to the same features. The seat tube can be an issue on the REALLY steep stuff but some of it can be helped by body-english and positioning the seat forward. Again it's a tradeoff because I'm a light weight guy and by moving me further towards the rear I get loads of traction and can maneuver the front of the bike really well over rocks, roots, est.
flag lucythefin
O+
Posted: Apr 23, 2017 at 18:26 Quote
Compared to the new Enduro bikes coming out now, the Mach 6 as it is, is behind the times. It works well for what it is but it doesn't make sense for you to upgrade to the same bike just a newer year. It does not pedal as well as the new bikes coming out regardless of suspension design. That's why all the new bike tests, shoot outs, whatever you want to call them praise the Firebird in the Pivot lineup and say skip over the Mach 6 until they completely redesign it.
Vital mtb has a very good, in depth review of the new Firebird.
The Evil Insurgent is in the same boat as the Mach 6. Does not pedal as well as the newer stuff coming out. Slack seat tube angle does it in. Heavy for a carbon bike. Downhill Slayer for sure, but you can do that on your bike now so no point in just changing bikes for no perceivable gain in anything. If you want an Evil bike, check out the Calling. Will do pretty much anything you are capable of throwing at it and be more comfortable in day to day riding. Phil of Skills with Phil YouTube channel has very good videos of him shredding that bike faster than maybe pro downhill riders down very steep and gnarly terrain. Though he is a pro level rider himself.
The only one that makes sense if you only like those three bikes and are getting a new one would be the Yeti.
Demo a ton of bikes regardless of suspension design and you'll be pleasantly surprised. The new stuff that's come out in the last year is phenomenal.
One dark horse you should check out is the Guerrilla Gravity Mega Trail SS. High setting BB, 135mm rear travel, low setting BB 145mm rear travel. Change out the shock to a longer stroke shock and get 155-165mm of rear travel.
flag tandrews87
O+
Posted: Apr 23, 2017 at 19:09 Quote
lucythefin wrote:
Compared to the new Enduro bikes coming out now, the Mach 6 as it is, is behind the times. It works well for what it is but it doesn't make sense for you to upgrade to the same bike just a newer year. It does not pedal as well as the new bikes coming out regardless of suspension design. That's why all the new bike tests, shoot outs, whatever you want to call them praise the Firebird in the Pivot lineup and say skip over the Mach 6 until they completely redesign it.
Vital mtb has a very good, in depth review of the new Firebird.
The Evil Insurgent is in the same boat as the Mach 6. Does not pedal as well as the newer stuff coming out. Slack seat tube angle does it in. Heavy for a carbon bike. Downhill Slayer for sure, but you can do that on your bike now so no point in just changing bikes for no perceivable gain in anything. If you want an Evil bike, check out the Calling. Will do pretty much anything you are capable of throwing at it and be more comfortable in day to day riding. Phil of Skills with Phil YouTube channel has very good videos of him shredding that bike faster than maybe pro downhill riders down very steep and gnarly terrain. Though he is a pro level rider himself.
The only one that makes sense if you only like those three bikes and are getting a new one would be the Yeti.
Demo a ton of bikes regardless of suspension design and you'll be pleasantly surprised. The new stuff that's come out in the last year is phenomenal.
One dark horse you should check out is the Guerrilla Gravity Mega Trail SS. High setting BB, 135mm rear travel, low setting BB 145mm rear travel. Change out the shock to a longer stroke shock and get 155-165mm of rear travel.

Thanks for the feedback Lucythefin! I agree with a lot of what you said. We don't really have enduro where I'm at is just a lot of rocks and roots mixed with quick downs followed by quick ups because we only have about 200 ft. in elevation change. It's a lot like riding a twisted heart attack to be honest. I think that is why it is difficult to select a long travel bike. We have some terrain where the full travel it gets used but it's just popping of some jumps and rocks. When I go to CO I prefer to take just one bike to ride the parks and the back country. Again this usually means there are sacrifices made on both ends (not a downhill machine and not a CC charger either).

I don't agree with the some of the suspension claims though. I've ridden a Pivot FB and it didn't efficient as the Mach 6 and nowhere near as manageable on tight trails in my local area. I do believe that many manufactures are getting a better handle on tuning their leverage points to better dial a bike. However, Dave W. has had a good grasp of this for some time and he consults for Pivot. I've not ridden the Evil bikes but have heard good things, I agree they are heavy and I'm not sold they offer anything really different. The Calling hits a lot of the boxes though.

As far as my Mach 6 goes I'm not looking to get the updated frame because you nailed it in that they didn't really change anything except boost and cable routing. I'm either going to keep it or buy these others frames
flag Bushamster21
Posted: Apr 25, 2017 at 3:44 Quote
tandrews87 wrote:
Bushamster21 wrote:
The Transition Patrol hasn't been winning a bunch of awards by accident. It really is that good. It climbs a helluva lot better than some other VPP and DW bikes I've demoed. I went to a Rocky Demo a few weeks ago and Santa Cruz this past weekend. I rode the Slayer and the Bronson, and I would argue the Slayer climbs as good as or better than the Bronson. It's going to win a bunch of awards.

As for the three you're looking at, I've ridden the Mach 6 and the SB6c. I never really got along with the Mach 6 all that well. I think Pivot is behind the times with the short top-tube, long stem, and slack seat-tube. I hope to see an update soon because I really want to like that bike.

The SB6c was pretty much built from the ground up to win the EWS. It's pretty much the opposite of playful, being a much more grounded bike and to get the most out of it, you have to be going pretty quick.

I will definitely check out the Transition Patrol. As far as the Mach 6 being behind the times I 100% disagree but it is all about the terrain you have to ride, everything is a tradeoff. I give up a little stability at the top end speeds when I go to bike parks due to the shorter WB and TT. However, when I'm at my local trails I can make tighter switchback climbs and quicker turns than similar travel bikes due to the same features. The seat tube can be an issue on the REALLY steep stuff but some of it can be helped by body-english and positioning the seat forward. Again it's a tradeoff because I'm a light weight guy and by moving me further towards the rear I get loads of traction and can maneuver the front of the bike really well over rocks, roots, est.

I'm just checking but a quick look on where you live (Dallas) and checking Ibis's website shows there are two dealers near there, one in Fort Worth and another in Dallas. Are those too far for you? Because I think that the Ibis HD3 would be a pretty good fit. Your argument is valid and I'm glad that you're happy with your bike. The HD3 sits in the middle of the mach 6 and the newer geometry. It's really good when you have singletrack to ride but still has the capability to take on some gnarlier terrain. The thing though is that it gives you really great confidence, until it doesn't. You can find yourself in trouble if things get really nasty at high speed. There's another forum where some guys have switched from the HD3 to the Insurgent and talked about this *cough* mtbr *cough*.

As for the Patrol, in exchange for not having the slack seat-tube to work with, the suspension is tuned to be more active which helps you get traction on the steeper climbs. I was surprised at how well it climbed. I did a back-to-back demo on a '16 Patrol with a '15 kona process 153. And my friend who I can usually out-climb took off when he switched over to the Patrol. I don't think he's ever out-paced me that much, and he owned the Kona!
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