Transition Sentinel

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Transition Sentinel
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Posted: Aug 8, 2022 at 11:18 Quote
jloosener wrote:
HeatedRotor wrote:
Theres more to the front washing than Reach. Theres a weird balance on the sentinel and spire they both ride very similar. - i found my sentinel liked to "sit back" - yes i could make it stand up in the rear and push weight forward but still felt weird in the front and the rear just got super harsh.(i changed between the Float x and the x2. to try)

i felt like i could have max weight on the front and it still washed on anything that wasnt a super steep trail.

Friend of mine is running a +1 Headset with a lower stem setup and it rides really good, infact it doesnt feel like the same bike.

Sounds like user and/or suspension setup error 2 cents


def agree with you. i'm 5'10 on a large with a 170 fork no less and my front wheel's velcro'd to the ground. I absolutely love the way the sentinel rides when i'm charging.

it wasn't always that way and required me to change my style a bit to consciously dominate the front wheel - keep it weighted and lean heavily -- but thats not different than any of the new breed of long slack bikes (many of which have very similar geo to the sentinel)

kinda wild to think you're so good that it must be the bikes fault Rolleyes

Posted: Aug 8, 2022 at 11:43 Quote
HeatedRotor wrote:
most certainly not, why does this happen to be the only bike that acts like this for me, Ive asked several people selling their sentinels and thats been one of the reasons.

I dont have any issue with any other bike, I've ran it with the shock standing up to put even more weight forward and every suspension theory for front grip.

I built my sentinel from frame and all those parts came from a different bike that didnt have this issue.

Enduro-mtb's review is pretty spot on.

Have you ridden other bikes with less than 64 degree HTAs?

I'm sure you've heard this before this but you can't ride these slack bikes like more traditional frames with steeper angles. I can definitely understand what you're describing, the body positioning needed for choppers like this is very different than a more conservative geo & it does not translate back and forth very well.

The sentinel (and actually any super slack bike in my experience) rewards you for getting your face right over the stem, stuffing the front wheel into corners and charging straight through chunk. The slack HTA keeps you nice and centered and safe from OTB. On the flipside it actively punishes you for getting scared, stiffening up, standing up and leaning back.

If you don't ride super actively and aggressively forward, you won't get the most out of this bike.

Posted: Aug 8, 2022 at 13:12 Quote
Not found that at all with my sentinel. Maybe some people just don’t get on with certain bikes - it’s all personal preference. Like I said, on the Bird 145LT I found the front washed for me - I didn’t find many people with the same problem. Yet the sentinel is perfect and confidence inspiring. Doesn’t matter if it’s the standard float x or my Kitsuma coil on there for front grip. Running a 160mm Lyrik Ultimate.

Posted: Aug 8, 2022 at 13:17 Quote
Saw a video on Vital about cockpit preference and it made some kind of sense. If your stem is shorter than your fork offset, you're weighting the front wheel less than if you ran a stem longer than your fork offset. Things that make you go hmmmmm

Posted: Aug 8, 2022 at 13:51 Quote
Cascade link info needed from those that are running one. Adding it to the stock bike puts on an extra 15mm of travel, has anyone then shortened the shock stroke to compensate? I feel like without shortening the shock the CC link would turn it into a mini Spire, contemplating getting one Big Grin Cool

Posted: Aug 8, 2022 at 14:05 Quote
bdreynolds7 wrote:
Cascade link info needed from those that are running one. Adding it to the stock bike puts on an extra 15mm of travel, has anyone then shortened the shock stroke to compensate? I feel like without shortening the shock the CC link would turn it into a mini Spire, contemplating getting one Big Grin Cool

I have an Alloy V2 so I didn't have a choice other than to short stroke it. Running my stock Float X at 57.5 for 155mm total rear travel.

I only have a handful of local pedal rides on it and a single park day yesterday so far. I've noticed the chatter feels smoothed over, so the small bump sensitivity works as advertised in my opinion. That is the main difference I've felt.

That said, I was running the Float X at 174psi with the largest token that will fit (1") with my stock link. I feel like I was blowing through the travel but the 1" spacer got me to a happy-ish place. I threw the Link on and had to up it to 240psi with the 0.8" spacer to keep from bottoming hard at the park. I weigh 165lb out of the shower for reference.

I'm going to try 235psi and throw the 1" spacer back in to see if that works. I'd really like to start over with a different shock (potentially coil if I can find one cheap) and see what I think.

Posted: Aug 8, 2022 at 18:10 Quote
It’s absolutely a mini spire. I just put on an Intend Edge @ 170 & Cascade link with Avy Bomber CR (425 lbs spring, I’m 170 ready to go) and it’s fantastic. I had no issues at the park and have so much confidence on the bike.

FYI Fluid Focus offered to add a LSC dial to a Fox Float X Performance and tune it for me. After scoring a brand new (pull off) float X for $175, and with their LSC and tune for $170, I’m looking at a tuned, adjustable shock for $350, and I think that’s awesome.

Posted: Aug 9, 2022 at 10:23 Quote
HeatedRotor wrote:
most certainly not, why does this happen to be the only bike that acts like this for me, Ive asked several people selling their sentinels and thats been one of the reasons.

I dont have any issue with any other bike, I've ran it with the shock standing up to put even more weight forward and every suspension theory for front grip.

I built my sentinel from frame and all those parts came from a different bike that didnt have this issue.

Enduro-mtb's review is pretty spot on.

This is either simply set up error, or you do not have the ride style that the Sentinel is designed to be ridden with.
Now maybe the geometry of the bike does not allow you to set it up for both your preferences and for how the bike is suppose to handle, but if set up for how the bike is suppose to handle there is no reason that the front end would wash any more than any other similar bike.
People like to think there is some sort of black magic with geometry but at the end of the day, a bicycle frame is a relatively simple machine that can be configured many different ways and still work well... But it has to be balanced with the components that are on it. Fork set up, tire choice/set up, cockpit set up all have much more to do with grip than a frame when we are talking about the marginal geometry differences between modern bikes, and a set up that works great on one bike, might not work great on another, you can't just plug your parts/settings from another bike and expect it to act the same.
If you don't like how a sentinel rides, that's fine, it doesn't suit your preference, but to imply that there is something fundamentally wrong with the bike because you don't get along with it is folly.
my 2 cents

Posted: Aug 9, 2022 at 10:49 Quote
Buggyr333 wrote:
HeatedRotor wrote:
most certainly not, why does this happen to be the only bike that acts like this for me, Ive asked several people selling their sentinels and thats been one of the reasons.

I dont have any issue with any other bike, I've ran it with the shock standing up to put even more weight forward and every suspension theory for front grip.

I built my sentinel from frame and all those parts came from a different bike that didnt have this issue.

Enduro-mtb's review is pretty spot on.

This is either simply set up error, or you do not have the ride style that the Sentinel is designed to be ridden with.
Now maybe the geometry of the bike does not allow you to set it up for both your preferences and for how the bike is suppose to handle, but if set up for how the bike is suppose to handle there is no reason that the front end would wash any more than any other similar bike.
People like to think there is some sort of black magic with geometry but at the end of the day, a bicycle frame is a relatively simple machine that can be configured many different ways and still work well... But it has to be balanced with the components that are on it. Fork set up, tire choice/set up, cockpit set up all have much more to do with grip than a frame when we are talking about the marginal geometry differences between modern bikes, and a set up that works great on one bike, might not work great on another, you can't just plug your parts/settings from another bike and expect it to act the same.
If you don't like how a sentinel rides, that's fine, it doesn't suit your preference, but to imply that there is something fundamentally wrong with the bike because you don't get along with it is folly.
my 2 cents

Weird, so many people got triggerd by that. fanboy things i suppose Rolleyes

first, i didnt "plug my settings" from other bike into this.
When i asked this question on the Transition group on FB, i got a heap of support in the ways of, "yes i found that to - and this is what i did about it..."

Even more weirdly so is the shop who sells transition Told me about this feeling of these bikes when i first bought a frame.

Im not here to argue with blokes who do more Pinkbiking than actual biking, but My experience after riding a heap of bikes in the last 2 years is that the Sentinel rides weird. - i spoke to cascade about their link and they said that my experience is common and its also something their link helps with as it keeps the rear end of the bike higher in avg.

Something else is the crazy amount of Frame flex in the alloy version.

Im sure all the TR snappers on pb will come tell me about their 20 years of mtbing and its the best bike they've ridden.
a differing opinion on a forum group always causes hurt feelings

Posted: Aug 9, 2022 at 11:03 Quote
HeatedRotor wrote:
Buggyr333 wrote:
HeatedRotor wrote:
most certainly not, why does this happen to be the only bike that acts like this for me, Ive asked several people selling their sentinels and thats been one of the reasons.

I dont have any issue with any other bike, I've ran it with the shock standing up to put even more weight forward and every suspension theory for front grip.

I built my sentinel from frame and all those parts came from a different bike that didnt have this issue.

Enduro-mtb's review is pretty spot on.

This is either simply set up error, or you do not have the ride style that the Sentinel is designed to be ridden with.
Now maybe the geometry of the bike does not allow you to set it up for both your preferences and for how the bike is suppose to handle, but if set up for how the bike is suppose to handle there is no reason that the front end would wash any more than any other similar bike.
People like to think there is some sort of black magic with geometry but at the end of the day, a bicycle frame is a relatively simple machine that can be configured many different ways and still work well... But it has to be balanced with the components that are on it. Fork set up, tire choice/set up, cockpit set up all have much more to do with grip than a frame when we are talking about the marginal geometry differences between modern bikes, and a set up that works great on one bike, might not work great on another, you can't just plug your parts/settings from another bike and expect it to act the same.
If you don't like how a sentinel rides, that's fine, it doesn't suit your preference, but to imply that there is something fundamentally wrong with the bike because you don't get along with it is folly.
my 2 cents

Weird, so many people got triggerd by that. fanboy things i suppose Rolleyes

first, i didnt "plug my settings" from other bike into this.
When i asked this question on the Transition group on FB, i got a heap of support in the ways of, "yes i found that to - and this is what i did about it..."

Even more weirdly so is the shop who sells transition Told me about this feeling of these bikes when i first bought a frame.

Im not here to argue with blokes who do more Pinkbiking than actual biking, but My experience after riding a heap of bikes in the last 2 years is that the Sentinel rides weird. - i spoke to cascade about their link and they said that my experience is common and its also something their link helps with as it keeps the rear end of the bike higher in avg.

Something else is the crazy amount of Frame flex in the alloy version.

Im sure all the TR snappers on pb will come tell me about their 20 years of mtbing and its the best bike they've ridden.
a differing opinion on a forum group always causes hurt feelings

Triggered fanboy here. So what other slack/long bikes have you ridden?

Posted: Aug 9, 2022 at 11:26 Quote
Can anyone confirm the fit of an EXT Storia on a medium V2 with the stock link? EXT says it does, but I saw a few posts saying it was pretty tight and that the E-Storia would be the way to go.

Posted: Aug 9, 2022 at 11:35 Quote
HeatedRotor wrote:
Buggyr333 wrote:
HeatedRotor wrote:
most certainly not, why does this happen to be the only bike that acts like this for me, Ive asked several people selling their sentinels and thats been one of the reasons.

I dont have any issue with any other bike, I've ran it with the shock standing up to put even more weight forward and every suspension theory for front grip.

I built my sentinel from frame and all those parts came from a different bike that didnt have this issue.

Enduro-mtb's review is pretty spot on.

This is either simply set up error, or you do not have the ride style that the Sentinel is designed to be ridden with.
Now maybe the geometry of the bike does not allow you to set it up for both your preferences and for how the bike is suppose to handle, but if set up for how the bike is suppose to handle there is no reason that the front end would wash any more than any other similar bike.
People like to think there is some sort of black magic with geometry but at the end of the day, a bicycle frame is a relatively simple machine that can be configured many different ways and still work well... But it has to be balanced with the components that are on it. Fork set up, tire choice/set up, cockpit set up all have much more to do with grip than a frame when we are talking about the marginal geometry differences between modern bikes, and a set up that works great on one bike, might not work great on another, you can't just plug your parts/settings from another bike and expect it to act the same.
If you don't like how a sentinel rides, that's fine, it doesn't suit your preference, but to imply that there is something fundamentally wrong with the bike because you don't get along with it is folly.
my 2 cents

Weird, so many people got triggerd by that. fanboy things i suppose Rolleyes

first, i didnt "plug my settings" from other bike into this.
When i asked this question on the Transition group on FB, i got a heap of support in the ways of, "yes i found that to - and this is what i did about it..."

Even more weirdly so is the shop who sells transition Told me about this feeling of these bikes when i first bought a frame.

Im not here to argue with blokes who do more Pinkbiking than actual biking, but My experience after riding a heap of bikes in the last 2 years is that the Sentinel rides weird. - i spoke to cascade about their link and they said that my experience is common and its also something their link helps with as it keeps the rear end of the bike higher in avg.

Something else is the crazy amount of Frame flex in the alloy version.

Im sure all the TR snappers on pb will come tell me about their 20 years of mtbing and its the best bike they've ridden.
a differing opinion on a forum group always causes hurt feelings

Frame flex on a 2022 alloy sentinel? Can’t say I’ve noticed that - it’s pretty overbuilt / a bit on the heavy side in my mind. My Bird alloy frames were both a fair lighter.

My Bird 145LT rode a touch weird on the limit - not something I’ve found on the Aether 7 or the Sentinel. The only geometry thing really different on that was the chunk longer reach really. Which meant I was riding with a shorter stem - virtually all my bikes in recent times have been 455 ish reach / 50mm stem. The 145 was 481mm reach and I tried it with both a 40 and 32mm stem.

Some bikes just don’t suit some people - not a fanboi of Transition particularly or feeling triggered. Quite happy to switch between brands - I’ve ridden my Sentinel back to back with a carbon Stumpie Evo and preferred the Sentinel. I’m quite curious about a mullet Giga / Mega, a SC Hightower, Propain Hugene among other bikes to try. Won’t be changing anytime soon based on budget and only being about 8 months into the sentinel.

Posted: Aug 9, 2022 at 12:06 Quote
HeatedRotor wrote:
Weird, so many people got triggerd by that. fanboy things i suppose Rolleyes
I think tossing out insults like "Im not here to argue with blokes who do more Pinkbiking than actual biking." is more indiciative of someone being trigged rather than some of the other comments here.

Saying you dont have a riding style that works with modern bikes is pretty standard and isn't an insult. It's not limited to full suspension bikes or even people who ride Sentinels/Transitions. This video illustrates this really well with hardtails: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0E4ZuwbNb8

It really sounds like this is your problem. And like the video says, if you don't want to change your riding style, then that's perfectly okay. But that doesn't mean the onus is on the Sentinel, it's just not for you.

Posted: Aug 9, 2022 at 12:14 Quote
HeatedRotor wrote:
Buggyr333 wrote:
HeatedRotor wrote:
most certainly not, why does this happen to be the only bike that acts like this for me, Ive asked several people selling their sentinels and thats been one of the reasons.

I dont have any issue with any other bike, I've ran it with the shock standing up to put even more weight forward and every suspension theory for front grip.

I built my sentinel from frame and all those parts came from a different bike that didnt have this issue.

Enduro-mtb's review is pretty spot on.

This is either simply set up error, or you do not have the ride style that the Sentinel is designed to be ridden with.
Now maybe the geometry of the bike does not allow you to set it up for both your preferences and for how the bike is suppose to handle, but if set up for how the bike is suppose to handle there is no reason that the front end would wash any more than any other similar bike.
People like to think there is some sort of black magic with geometry but at the end of the day, a bicycle frame is a relatively simple machine that can be configured many different ways and still work well... But it has to be balanced with the components that are on it. Fork set up, tire choice/set up, cockpit set up all have much more to do with grip than a frame when we are talking about the marginal geometry differences between modern bikes, and a set up that works great on one bike, might not work great on another, you can't just plug your parts/settings from another bike and expect it to act the same.
If you don't like how a sentinel rides, that's fine, it doesn't suit your preference, but to imply that there is something fundamentally wrong with the bike because you don't get along with it is folly.
my 2 cents

Weird, so many people got triggerd by that. fanboy things i suppose Rolleyes

first, i didnt "plug my settings" from other bike into this.
When i asked this question on the Transition group on FB, i got a heap of support in the ways of, "yes i found that to - and this is what i did about it..."

Even more weirdly so is the shop who sells transition Told me about this feeling of these bikes when i first bought a frame.

Im not here to argue with blokes who do more Pinkbiking than actual biking, but My experience after riding a heap of bikes in the last 2 years is that the Sentinel rides weird. - i spoke to cascade about their link and they said that my experience is common and its also something their link helps with as it keeps the rear end of the bike higher in avg.

Something else is the crazy amount of Frame flex in the alloy version.

Im sure all the TR snappers on pb will come tell me about their 20 years of mtbing and its the best bike they've ridden.
a differing opinion on a forum group always causes hurt feelings

First of all, No I am not a fanboy, I do not even own a sentinel. I work at a shop that sells transition, and have plenty of satisfied customers that do not share the experience you have with your sentinel, as a matter of fact, Not a single customer we have sold a Sentinel to has told us this was a problem. And do not suggest I do "more pinkbiking than actual biking" because I assure you that is not true.
You are allowed to not like the bike, everyone has their opinions, but the overwhelming majority of riders who have sentinels get along with them just fine, so once again, to suggest that there is something fundamentally wrong with a bike because you do not get along with it is folly.
Think about the physics of what it would actually take for a frame to cause a lack of grip up front vs. every other bike on the market, Especially because most of what controls the front end traction of the bike is not the frame

Posted: Aug 9, 2022 at 23:06 Quote
Coming to a forum to share opinions, get help and then insult people is a proper d1ck move! What is your early mileage, since you talk like a proper athlete who clearly 1- have a bad setup 2- is not riding the bike as it should be ridden!
Sometimes people complain of front wheel washing but then run a huge stack of spacers for example…with high rise bars…bad rebound…just basic stuff really. However I would say that when I changed the forks from 36 to 38 I found a great benefit at the front end in that aspect. The coil also transformed the bike and I’ve always thought the bike was a bit too light so both changes “settled” the bike well. But the Sentinel as most other bikes of the same geometry and HA needs to be ridden aggressively and with “front-wheel-confidence”. When you get tired or lazy, it’s easy for that to happen on any bike.


 
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