Bird Aeris owners thread

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flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 26, 2021 at 8:51 Quote
With Kenda, Vee, and e*thirteen all making similar tread patterns, we're going to have to change "looks like a Minion" to "looks like an Assegai".
flag jazzythemost
Posted: Mar 26, 2021 at 11:00 Quote
Thorjensen wrote:
Thx both.

Yeah I know Bike24 have some choices but I try not to stock up tires. I've seen that the Pro Kenda riders have been on some prototype tires and waiting to see when Kenda writes anything official.

Just a note on the casing and lateral support talk we had earlier, I haven't tried the ATC in 2.6" so I dont know how they perform. All I can say that the 2.4" on rims from 29-30.5mm inside width has worked just fine.
Even on my hardtail and on fast and tight berms I haven't experienced anything negative when it comes to the support. BUT... I've noticed the positive difference between ATC and EMC on the rear.


And do you mean the EMC is better or the ATC? Also you said the Pinner rolls faster on the rear than nevegal2, is that correct?

I am going to 2.4 tires indeed because i have 29mm internal on my hope wheels, this weekend i am going to try the Magic Marry Addix soft 2.6 i had laying around to see how that rolls and grips, cant remember anymore to be fair.

Next week i am going to send back my Mattoc pro 2 to manitou so they can fix my High speed compression dial that is getting stuck few clicks in, then in the meantime im going to take the bike apart and service everything, put on some fresh tires ( 2.4 kenda's ) and i am all ready again for spring/summer.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 26, 2021 at 11:03 Quote
The Pinner and Nevegal2 are similar in rolling resistance. The choice of casing will make more difference than the choice between these two tread designs.

Keep in mind that most rolling resistance tests are done on drums, with the drum being powered, not the wheel. This fails to capture several variables.
flag Thorjensen
O+
Posted: Mar 26, 2021 at 12:10 Quote
jazzythemost wrote:
Thorjensen wrote:
Thx both.

Yeah I know Bike24 have some choices but I try not to stock up tires. I've seen that the Pro Kenda riders have been on some prototype tires and waiting to see when Kenda writes anything official.

Just a note on the casing and lateral support talk we had earlier, I haven't tried the ATC in 2.6" so I dont know how they perform. All I can say that the 2.4" on rims from 29-30.5mm inside width has worked just fine.
Even on my hardtail and on fast and tight berms I haven't experienced anything negative when it comes to the support. BUT... I've noticed the positive difference between ATC and EMC on the rear.


And do you mean the EMC is better or the ATC? Also you said the Pinner rolls faster on the rear than nevegal2, is that correct?

I am going to 2.4 tires indeed because i have 29mm internal on my hope wheels, this weekend i am going to try the Magic Marry Addix soft 2.6 i had laying around to see how that rolls and grips, cant remember anymore to be fair.

Next week i am going to send back my Mattoc pro 2 to manitou so they can fix my High speed compression dial that is getting stuck few clicks in, then in the meantime im going to take the bike apart and service everything, put on some fresh tires ( 2.4 kenda's ) and i am all ready again for spring/summer.

Hmm I cant say that one is better than the other but the EMC casing offers more lateral support and bit tougher but also heavier than the ATC. EMC and ATC uses the same compound.

Yes, I feel the Pinner is faster in rolling rear than Nevegal2 (trail experience), but then again the Pinner weigh a bit more than Nevegal2 with same width and ATC casing.
flag jazzythemost
Posted: Mar 26, 2021 at 13:17 Quote
Ok, don't think there is EMC casing for 27.5 Nevegal2 so i will go with the ATC casings tup
flag MrKnightUK
Posted: Mar 31, 2021 at 12:16 Quote
fabh1124 wrote:
Have a 561 outride with thru-axle adapter, Aether9 size medium-Long just fits.
Thought about getting a 598 to skip removing the front wheel. A friend of mine has one on the car so I put the bike up for a test. Turns out that the clamp ends up where the bottlecage mount+ pump sits on the frame. So no 598 for me. Might get a 599 (upride) instead if I can find one on sale. Until then, my old 561 will work just fine.

Is the bike practically hanging off the back? My inbound AM9 has very similar wheelbase to the Aether 9 ML.

What bike carriers are people using that are not a Thule Proride or a Yakima Frontloader?
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 31, 2021 at 12:31 Quote
Thule T2, first generation. Large AM9 hangs off a little, but not alarmingly. Friend's P3 Privateer 161 is a touch longer and still not alarming. XL Aeris 145 LT also works, but wouldn't want to go much longer than that without modifying the rack.

I could move the front wheel cradle outward by drilling new mounts.
flag jazzythemost
Posted: Apr 4, 2021 at 6:28 Quote
@R-M-R Hey, Can you give me some advice on my Aeris 145, i would like it to be more playfull for the type of terrain i ride most, would going with a megneg on my superdeluxe give more platform to push off? I like the feeling of running higher air pressure in my shock and kinda would like that without to much loss in the sagg im running. I run Manitou Mattoc pro 2 fork at 160 mm up front with the IRT upgrade.

The 145 feels quite dead to me on recommended sag and i like to pop of things rather than plow, was even thinking of going with an Aether in the nearby future because of this..need more progression in the shock i think?

I now run 2 tokens in the super deluxe ultimate with about 150/160 psi of air, my weight is around 76 kg.
flag colourofsound
Posted: Apr 4, 2021 at 9:53 Quote
@R-M-R Funnily I have a similar if potentially opposing question to the above.

I have an Aether 9a and I’m looking to maximise small bump sensitivity and comfort on hard, repeated hits. I’m not a fast or aggressive rider, and rocky terrain is most common where I ride.

Would the MegNeg be a good candidate to improve this?

Additionally, I’ve been quite surprised how harsh the Pike Ultimates are. They’re still considerably better than my old 2016 Yaris, but I was expecting them to be a little plusher over small bumps. Bird only stock the RCT3 version and I’ve read that it’s inferior in comfort to the RC2. Anyone had any experience of that?

Any advice on maximising comfort on fast, repeated hits would be great. Thanks!
flag R-M-R
Posted: Apr 4, 2021 at 15:42 Quote
jazzythemost,

"Playful" is the most difficult thing to help with because the definition isn't clear. The general principles of how to achieve that feeling for most riders:

• Plenty of support in the top half-ish of the travel. This implies steps should be taken to avoid excessive support at the end of the travel.
• Higher ratio of spring support to damper support, as damping dissipates energy and a "playful" bike returns a little extra energy to help the bike hop and pop. Therefore:
-- Fast rebound, especially near the top of the travel.
-- Firmer spring support and less compression damping, especially low-speed.

The motion ratio curve of the 145 is a “level hammock”, with about the same ratio at either end and a dip in the middle. I recommend the MegNeg for this curve, but be aware the Meg Neg can make a bike less “playful” to some people because it reduces support near the top of the travel. My recommended set-up strategy is:

• MegNeg with zero negative spring reducers (bands) as a starting point
• Zero positive spring reducers (tokens) as a starting point
• Less sag than you might use on other bikes: maybe 25%
-- Adjust the spring pressure before adjusting the reducers; adjust reducers only if you can’t get the feel you want via spring pressure
• Fast low-speed rebound damping


colourofsound,

There’s nothing similar about your question other than you’re two people looking for free advice from someone who normally gets paid to do this! lol

What’s your current set-up on the fork and the shock?

Insufficient comfort can have a variety of causes and solutions. For example:

• Lack of bath oil → fork or shock overhaul
• Spring too progressive, resulting in blowing through most of the travel, followed by a rapid increase in force (“hitting a wall”) → decrease spring compression ratio (remove reducers) or, sometimes, increase compression damping
• Too much compression damping → reduce compression damping
• Rapid onset of damping force → retune compression damping to be less digressive
• Rapid onset of force from tire pressure → reduce tire pressure, possibly increase tire size, possibly add inserts
flag colourofsound
Posted: Apr 4, 2021 at 16:02 Quote
@R-M-R Well, we were both asking about MegNeg...your free advice is appreciated as ever!

It’s a brand new bike. Forks and shock are both stock (I believe it’s one token in the fork; none in the shock; however they come from SRAM), so it won’t be a servicing issue.

I have the forks setup at about 75psi which is around the 20% sag for me. Bird didn’t have 140mm forks in stock so I had to have 150mm; advice was to run them a little softer than usual to compensate. -8 clicks of rebound; 2 clicks of LSC.

Tested my shock today with quite a bit of sag - about 35-38%. It was on the neutral rebound setting. It’s a Deluxe Ultimate; Bird didn’t have a SDU or Coil available at the time of ordering Frown

It was pretty good for the most part, but there is one particular descent that is incredibly rough and rocky; my instinct on this is that there are some things that just won’t be comfortable. I probably just need to get fitter!
flag R-M-R
Posted: Apr 4, 2021 at 16:43 Quote
Consider a little more pressure (less sag) at the rear and remove a token to retain access to all the travel.

Try faster rebound to ensure the suspension recovers as much as possible between impacts. Your rebound could already be fine, but it's a cheap and easy experiment that could yield a positive result. "Faster travel" could mean a similar or the same rebound setting to your current setting, but with more pressure; it could also mean the same pressure, if you like the current pressure, and a few clicks of the adjuster.

The Aether 9 doesn't "need" the MegNeg as much as some. Still, I think a smoother spring curve is almost always better, so it certainly won't hurt.

Do consider the option of lower tire pressure, possible in conjunction with larger tires and/or inserts.

If the feeling continues to bother you after all this, consider getting the shim stacks redone to be less digressive.
flag colourofsound
Posted: Apr 5, 2021 at 0:53 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Consider a little more pressure (less sag) at the rear and remove a token to retain access to all the travel.

Try faster rebound to ensure the suspension recovers as much as possible between impacts. Your rebound could already be fine, but it's a cheap and easy experiment that could yield a positive result. "Faster travel" could mean a similar or the same rebound setting to your current setting, but with more pressure; it could also mean the same pressure, if you like the current pressure, and a few clicks of the adjuster.

They come with no tokens installed by default - I’ll just set it to the fastest rebound setting. The Deluxe Ultimates aren’t very adjustable.

R-M-R wrote:
The Aether 9 doesn't "need" the MegNeg as much as some. Still, I think a smoother spring curve is almost always better, so it certainly won't hurt.

For the sake of $90 it’s worth a try - I’ll probably do it when it goes in for its first service. I’ll know for sure by then. Either that, or I’ll upgrade to a Super Deluxe/Coil or other shock.

R-M-R wrote:
Do consider the option of lower tire pressure, possible in conjunction with larger tires and/or inserts.

If the feeling continues to bother you after all this, consider getting the shim stacks redone to be less digressive.

Tyre pressures are about 20 front/25 rear so I’ll lower those.

That last bit of advice went completely over my head - I don’t know what that means!
flag R-M-R
Posted: Apr 5, 2021 at 1:16 Quote
Damping is a function of velocity and the shape of the curve can be altered.

Think of the motion ratio curve of a suspension linkage: it's not flat, and it's not a straight line. The designer of the frame can tune the shape of the curve to alter the feel of the bike and how it interacts with the shock. This means the motion ratio is a function of position.

The damping curve also has a shape, which depends on shock shaft velocity. With only a few exotic exceptions, the faster the shaft is moving, the more damping force - the question is how much more. Some damping curves build a lot of force very quickly, i.e. it doesn't take much shaft velocity to develop a lot of support, then the force curve levels off so it doesn't get unreasonably high at high shaft speeds. Other damping curves start mild and don't get really supportive unless a very sharp hit has moved the shaft very quickly, in which case they may develop a higher maximum force than in the previous example.

Most mountain bike dampers are usually digressive, but recent trends are shifting toward a more linear damping curve. The latter may feel more comfortable to you.

Below are some exaggerated curves drawn by englertracing. Blue is digressive, green is linear, and red is progressive. There are many different ways to create such curves with multiple valves and different shim stack configurations. A shock tuner would know what you're talking about if you asked for "a more comfortable high-speed compression damping tune with a less digressive stack".

photo
flag colourofsound
Posted: Apr 5, 2021 at 3:14 Quote
So these damping curves are independent of the bikes linkage; what you’re describing here is only the damping curve of the shock?

If I’ve understood correctly then, linkage curves and dampening curves work in concert to create the feel of the bike. And, if most shocks are digressive, then a lot of linkage curves must be very progressive to create progressive or linear feeling?

I’m assuming then that the MegNeg/Coil shocks have linear dampening curves (comparative to most stock air shocks) which gives them the supple small bump and more mid-stoke support generally attributed to these shock types?

 


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