Carbon wheel opinion

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Posted: Jan 17, 2018 at 18:10 Quote
I'm looking for some opinion on carbon wheels. I'm considering either a set of light bicycle 29er carbon wheels with DT Swiss hubs or for about the same price I can get a set of two year old Enve M70s on DT Swiss hubs. With the Enves I would need to add a spacer kit to fit my boost fork.

What would you do and why?

Thanks!

Posted: Jan 17, 2018 at 19:32 Quote
whitebirdfeathers wrote:
I'm looking for some opinion on carbon wheels. I'm considering either a set of light bicycle 29er carbon wheels with DT Swiss hubs or for about the same price I can get a set of two year old Enve M70s on DT Swiss hubs. With the Enves I would need to add a spacer kit to fit my boost fork.

What would you do and why?

Thanks!
if you break a rim its going to be a lot cheaper to replace the light bicycle rims

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 17:07 Quote
First, in the interest of full disclosure, I work for a company that makes carbon wheels...

Having said that... Personally, of the two choices listed I'd go with the Light Bicycle on DT hubs, preferably with 28 holes and straightpull spokes at no more than 120kg/f tension. My impression of the Enves that I've run across is that they tend to have too many spokes and too much spoke tension for my taste.

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 17:15 Quote
having watched the pinkbike video on enve rims. still not sure why they cost so much more then other brands. dont see the attraction only going break the rims sometime or other say you miss a landing or a rock garden with to much speed or hit a tree. if i was you id go for the cheaper option .

on a interesting note did'nt know mavic and enve were owned buy the same company.

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 17:43 Quote
may i ask what is the disadvantage of having too much tension on the spokes?

im considering to move into carbon rims and looking for options as well
my Hope XC rims are fine but I want to try other options

Posted: Jan 18, 2018 at 19:13 Quote
Thanks for the opinions. I ended up going for neither. I've had my local shop build up a really light weight set of Stans.

Posted: Jan 19, 2018 at 5:28 Quote
zinedrei wrote:
may i ask what is the disadvantage of having too much tension on the spokes?

im considering to move into carbon rims and looking for options as well
my Hope XC rims are fine but I want to try other options

Too many spokes and too much spoke tension make for an excessively stiff and heavy wheel when building with carbon. Aluminum and carbon are TOTALLY different materials and should be built with that in mind.

Aluminum rims start out as noodles squirted out of a die like Play Dough and then they get bent into a hoop shape and pinned and/or welded together at the end. That's because aluminum doesn't care much what shape it gets bent or squished into, and that's why you need a lot of spokes at relatively high tension to keep an aluminum wheel round. It needs all that support to keep it's shape.

Carbon rims on the other hand, get laid up in a circular mold with resin, and then get baked at high temps to cure the resin. You could say carbon rims are "born round" and aluminum rims are "bent round". Couple that with carbon's higher strength and stiffness and you have a rim that really can't benefit from lots of spokes at high tension. In fact, too many spokes at too much tension can work against you in a carbon wheel by not allowing the rim to deflect at all under severe impacts, which leads to a harsh ride and cracked rim flanges.

A lot of wheelbuilders and some wheel companies treat carbon as if it was nothing more than expensive black aluminum instead of a totally different material with totally different mechanical properties that reward totally different building techniques. Sure, you can build a carbon wheel the same way you build aluminum, but you'll miss out on some of the advantages carbon provides.

Posted: Jan 19, 2018 at 6:49 Quote
I was just in a similar position. Go look at We Are One composites. Very similar pricing to LB, much better product, and much better warranty. And hey, handmade in Canada.

First ride on those yesterday and I realized all the wheels I've ever owned were garbage.

Posted: Jan 19, 2018 at 13:30 Quote
I'm still scared of breaking carbon rims, maybe totally un-justified but it's just to an expensive a test for me to justify and I worry about other aspects. In the last year I have never knocked an aluminium rim out of true or had one stop a ride. I have on the other hand bent 2 rims so badly that the flange has bend down on to the tire bead and the rim beds bent in making it impossible to remount a tyre - it's not stopped a ride or spoilt a trip away though as the bent rim if anything has just held on to the tyre tighter, it only becomes a problem at tyre change time. I worry carbon would have broken ruining my holiday, finished my days riding and been a significant waste of cash.

I've had this happen on both an Easton ARC27 & WTB Frequency Team i25, I replaced the Easton with the WTB as same ERD so cost me £23 (I was in the mindset rims are disposable so buy cheap at that time) and an hour of my time. 10 months later having just bent the WTB I was thinking / wonder if 'better, high end aluminium would survive longer?' so I've ordered a DT Swiss EX471 to replace the WTB i25, ERD is 1mm different so again no cost but the rim a massive £64 and an hour of my time.

So I've trashed 2 rims and to get on the 3rd rim has cost significantly less than just one LB rim. So the big question is would I have suffered no damage if I had a carbon LB rim in the 1st place and be a happy guy or would I have had ruined holidays?

I'm hoping the DT EX471 will survive better than the ARC and WTB both of which have big reputations for being 'soft' and generally a bit crap whereas the EX471s have the reputation of being the dogs bollocks. Carbon has a reputation for breaking though... when or if this reputation disappears then I'm sure I'll give them a go. Videos like the Danny one don't make a sale I'm afraid, after I removed my Easton ARC I took the blunt end of a 4 foot axe to it, it made it egg shaped 1st hit but didn't break it or dent it, it took repeated hits I was really shocked how strong it appeared. There's nothing like real world testing, I.e. Accidentally hitting that square edge rock embedded in the ground at 40mph whilst hanging with all you weigh on the back.

Posted: Jan 19, 2018 at 15:18 Quote
zsandstrom wrote:
I was just in a similar position. Go look at We Are One composites. Very similar pricing to LB, much better product, and much better warranty. And hey, handmade in Canada.

First ride on those yesterday and I realized all the wheels I've ever owned were garbage.

What testing have you done to lead to the conclusion that one product is much better then the other? Am real close to getting a crabon wheelset for the new bike, and am looking for all the details i can find.

Posted: Jan 19, 2018 at 15:59 Quote
zsandstrom wrote:
I was just in a similar position. Go look at We Are One composites. Very similar pricing to LB, much better product, and much better warranty. And hey, handmade in Canada.

First ride on those yesterday and I realized all the wheels I've ever owned were garbage.

I'm totally familiar with We Are One. They use some of my products in their production.

Their cheapest wheelset is 50% more than a light bicycle wheelset. Being local and made in Canada would make me look at them though. Maybe on my next set.

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