Trailforks ride planner: no auto routing between trails?

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Trailforks ride planner: no auto routing between trails?
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 at 4:05 Quote
Hi guys,

I've been adding trails to Trailforks for a while now in the region where I live and ride (Belgium).

Now I'm going on holiday to France this summer, so I thought this is a good opportunity to test the ride planner.
There are some nice trails nearby the place where I'll be staying.

However, creating a route with the ride planner doesn't seem to work. I can click the trails I want to include in the route, but it seems there is no autorouting function that can connect the trails. The ride planner just draws a straight line between two trails, but that line doesn't follow any roads.
When I click on some random roads, I get the message 'routing problem - error finding an edge'.

Am I doing something wrong, or are the maps not routeable?

Posted: Jan 22, 2018 at 8:05 Quote
Same problem,


It is simply not possible to plan a ride on the ride planner. Many people who I adviced to use Trailforks, leave because of this. What's the use of Trailforks, they ask. "I have Strava for the segments and the ride planner does not work."

Every big project has to take off, but we need to gain a critical mass to keep things going.

Mod Plus
Posted: Jan 29, 2018 at 11:51 Quote
What is the region you are trying to create a ride plan in? Link to an example ride plan?

The ride planner really only starts to be useful after an area is well mapped, all the trails, connections and everything neat and tidy.

The ride planner is just 1 of hundreds of features. Trailforks is primarily a trail map, something that Strava is not. They are very different products.

Until your area (which I don't know) is mapped, you can also use the "Ride finder" to find rides to follow that might closely match something youd want to plan yourself.
https://www.trailforks.com/ridelog/finder/?lat=50.798331&lon=4.634130&z=12&order=desc

Or click a specific trail and see rides that included that trail.
https://www.trailforks.com/trails/margrietendreef/ridelogs/
This can also be done in the mobile app.

Posted: Jan 29, 2018 at 12:57 Quote
Can we do something to make the ride planner "seeing" ordinary roads? Not trails I mean...

https://www.trailforks.com/ridelog/planner/view/23954/

This shows how the ride planner sometimes just can't connect streets, even a trail where you have to go all the way back just to leave it. A waypoint on the start of a trail that just ends in a straight line in stead of following the trail.

Mod Plus
Posted: Jan 29, 2018 at 18:35 Quote
One the ride planner if you zoom in you can see which roads are routable, they have a grey interactive line over them.


For some reason a lot of the roads in this region are not what we consider "roads". All the purple lines are what Trailforks imports from OSM for routing.


This is likely due to the way they are tagged on OSM. We don't import roads tagged as "unclassified", which many of them are, not sure why OSM is tagged like this in your area. Thats the problem with OSM, there is no consistency in the data tagging.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/40014956

If I change our code to allow "unclassified" it might result in a TON more roads being added in other regions slowing things down. Also some "trails" are often tagged with that on OSM, which we defiantly try to filter out.

I'll do some tests to see how much allowing unclassified ways will have.

Mod Plus
Posted: Jan 29, 2018 at 19:46 Quote
I know whats going on. I do include "unclassified" but only around the actual trails, not in the areas between trails.

for example this area would include large roads all over, but only the small road types like "unclassified" in the blue riding area boxes.


Posted: Jan 29, 2018 at 23:11 Quote
Perhaps that's a good idea.

I'm also active on OSM, perhaps this is something I can work on, but it seems a lot of workGeek

Update: what an immense work is this... I hope things will be OK when I replace the "unclassified" tag with "road" or "residential".

Posted: Jan 29, 2018 at 23:17 Quote
Just for knowing, how frequently is the OSM database updated in Trailforks, so I can test out some things?

Posted: Jan 30, 2018 at 4:56 Quote
canadaka wrote:

I edited a lot of roads on OSM, hope this helps.

It would come in handy to have the map you posted here, so it would be easier for me to see which parts I might have forgotten. In OSM this is more difficult to see, the colour of an "unclassified road" is only slightly different to that of "residential" and "road". If they all are marked pink, it's a lot easier to spot them.

TIA

Posted: Jan 30, 2018 at 5:44 Quote
canadaka wrote:
This is likely due to the way they are tagged on OSM. We don't import roads tagged as "unclassified", which many of them are, not sure why OSM is tagged like this in your area.

I hope you're right, but this may not be the problem.

For instance: the Hovaerestraat https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/54149498


Is an "unclassified" road, nevertheless it is routable in Trailforks:


I compared the tags of this road with some unroutable roads like Noordmiddenstraat and Vloethemveld

I noticed nothing special, especially that Hovaerestraat is added to a relation "Bicycle route", but the Wilskerkestraat you mentioned was also added to a bicycle route (Schoorbakkeroute).

Posted: Jan 30, 2018 at 8:08 Quote
Sorry I'm posting again, but after studying OSM all day, I think it's just better to include all "unclassified" roads in Belgium.

Following the description on OSM-wiki an unclassified road is:

minor public roads typically at the lowest level of the interconnecting grid network. Unclassified roads have lower importance in the road network than tertiary roads, and are not residential streets or agricultural tracks. highway=unclassified should be used for roads used for local traffic, and for roads used to connect other towns, villages or hamlets. Unclassified roads are considered usable by motor cars.

Well, I know we all want to jump from trail to trail, but this is simply not possible in Belgium. Even the best routes are more than 30% on the road. And then I prefer to ride along small roads with as little as traffic as possible, the description that fits "unclassified" in OSM. God I hope the Ride Planner is not sending me along tertiary, secondary or even primary roads as it does today. I also fear that my operation of changing "unclassified" to "road" will be turned back, as "road" is only a temporary designation.

Of course, I do not know what consequences this will have on the database of Trailforks. A lot more, you say.

My $0,02...

Mod Plus
Posted: Jan 31, 2018 at 9:51 Quote
As I clarified unclassified roads are added, but only around the actual trails, not the inbetween areas.

I'll try and make an exception for this area.
This is the admin routing map https://www.trailforks.com/region/middelkerke/routingadmin/

Posted: Feb 1, 2018 at 9:55 Quote
You did an amazing job!!!

The ride planner went from unusable to the best MTB route planner I've ever seen. I'm impressed... So you only included the unclassified roads around trails? It's quite good the way it is...

Mod Plus
Posted: Feb 1, 2018 at 12:11 Quote
Tantist wrote:
You did an amazing job!!!

The ride planner went from unusable to the best MTB route planner I've ever seen. I'm impressed... So you only included the unclassified roads around trails? It's quite good the way it is...

I made an exception for this area of Belgium and included the unclassified roads in the entire routing area.

You can use that routing admin page to make sure all the trails are connected to roads or each other. If there is a grey dot they are connected. A yellow dot is a trail end/start with no connection.

Posted: Feb 1, 2018 at 12:33 Quote
Yes, this is a good idea. I've started around Bruges...

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