Doing drops, what mode of suspension is best?

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Doing drops, what mode of suspension is best?
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Posted: Feb 8, 2018 at 1:20 Quote
markg1150 wrote:
Cane creek and showa must make there shocks back to front then. Very recently installed a cane creek shock and gone thorough the setup with the app. Straight forward process great little app.
Even just double checked so I don't put my foot in my mouth.
Big is hsc and small lsc. Well it is for them and showa

Their description makes scene when using simple terminology, most people think of big as basically casing a 3 foot drop (high shaft speed, 5050 from 3 feet and you are going to need your suspension to contract real quick), and small as some nice rollers on a flow trail (low shaft speed). If you dont believe the argument, put your LSC at max and ride as fast as you can into a square curb, I bet the fork will compress to more or less the height of the curb, where as if you ride as slow as you can with max LSC it wont (Well it might a bit depending on the spring rate you are using, but not nearly as much). Believe it or not, I think you are probably more likely to eat shit on the latter. The converse is set your LSC at max and jump on a pump track, now set it at min and set your HSC at max, whats the difference? The latter dont pump to great does it.

HSC and LSC are in relation to shaft speed. A small square bump can produce a high shaft speed, while a big round one will produce a low shaft speed. In general increasing LSC will give more resistance when you do things such as pump or brake (reduce dive), or go through a G-out (among other things this is common when landing a well built drop correctly), where as increasing HSC will stop the fork/shock compressing on high (shaft) speed hits, for normal trail or DH riding think of high speed rock gardens, large amounts of HSC will cause these gardens to feel like the suspension is rigid, in a similar way to massive amounts of LSC will give you something firm to push in a pump.

From memory rockshox even stated their reasoning from removing HSC adjustment from their forks because none of their riders changed it much once they had set it for their weight and style, i.e. it was independent of the course they were riding, they ran the same HSC regardless of if there were lots of big drops or not in the course.

To the OP, fiddle with what you have, LSC, rebound, air pressure and maybe volume spaces. Is it really worth setting up suspension so that it is good on just one feature and sucks on everything else? If you have an air shock the answer might be to add volume spaces, this will increase the spring rate near the end of the stroke but will still let you have small bump sensitivity regardless of the damper you have. Take a shock pump and play with air pressures as well, if its air.

Posted: Feb 8, 2018 at 3:57 Quote
With the op only having 140 travel rough landings and a short 190x50 length shock I'm guessing the shaft speed is gonna be dam quick for drops from that height. Shock doesn't really have alot of time/distance to get things under control and slow it down for the lsc to kick in is my 2p. Get the feeling by the time it's slowed down for the lsc to kick in he's already bottomed out.
For big travel long shock bikes with lower shaft speeds id agree alot more with you if that makes sense.

Agree more volume spacers as best way to resist bottom out on a air shock without making it to harsh for the rest of the ride or needing to tweek the dampener to much.

Posted: Feb 9, 2018 at 4:53 Quote
I played around a bit with lsc and air pressure, but that resulted in lesser performance over tree roots if I make it better for bigger drops.

So I putted my settings back to what works best on rough trails and focused more on the landings after a big drop - working more with the knees gives a better result than fidling with the suspension...

Posted: Feb 13, 2018 at 9:07 Quote
TheHill wrote:
I' ve got a Canyon Spectral and mostly I leave the Fox suspension in the open mode. (R 140mm, F 150mm)

When doing drops (up to 1.5m), I also leave the suspension in the open mode (and bottom out from time to time, my landings aren't always that smooth).

I already cracked the chainstay (and I've received a waranty frame) and now I'm trying to figure out what is best for the bike:

Leave the suspension in open mode
Put it in medium mode, I assume then that the bottom out will be less harsh?

Or would the medium mode create more stress on the frame?

ntd14 wrote:
markg1150 wrote:
Cane creek and showa must make there shocks back to front then. Very recently installed a cane creek shock and gone thorough the setup with the app. Straight forward process great little app.
Even just double checked so I don't put my foot in my mouth.
Big is hsc and small lsc. Well it is for them and showa

Their description makes scene when using simple terminology, most people think of big as basically casing a 3 foot drop (high shaft speed, 5050 from 3 feet and you are going to need your suspension to contract real quick), and small as some nice rollers on a flow trail (low shaft speed). If you dont believe the argument, put your LSC at max and ride as fast as you can into a square curb, I bet the fork will compress to more or less the height of the curb, where as if you ride as slow as you can with max LSC it wont (Well it might a bit depending on the spring rate you are using, but not nearly as much). Believe it or not, I think you are probably more likely to eat shit on the latter. The converse is set your LSC at max and jump on a pump track, now set it at min and set your HSC at max, whats the difference? The latter dont pump to great does it.

HSC and LSC are in relation to shaft speed. A small square bump can produce a high shaft speed, while a big round one will produce a low shaft speed. In general increasing LSC will give more resistance when you do things such as pump or brake (reduce dive), or go through a G-out (among other things this is common when landing a well built drop correctly), where as increasing HSC will stop the fork/shock compressing on high (shaft) speed hits, for normal trail or DH riding think of high speed rock gardens, large amounts of HSC will cause these gardens to feel like the suspension is rigid, in a similar way to massive amounts of LSC will give you something firm to push in a pump.

From memory rockshox even stated their reasoning from removing HSC adjustment from their forks because none of their riders changed it much once they had set it for their weight and style, i.e. it was independent of the course they were riding, they ran the same HSC regardless of if there were lots of big drops or not in the course.

To the OP, fiddle with what you have, LSC, rebound, air pressure and maybe volume spaces. Is it really worth setting up suspension so that it is good on just one feature and sucks on everything else? If you have an air shock the answer might be to add volume spaces, this will increase the spring rate near the end of the stroke but will still let you have small bump sensitivity regardless of the damper you have. Take a shock pump and play with air pressures as well, if its air.

Your explanation of LSC is correct (shaft speed), but probably won't work for the situation that OP is having... Also, general consumers probably won't relate "shaft speed" to their riding. So, like you said, they've simplified it by using terms such as "big" and "small". To add, most consumers won't even play with their suspension, so Fox/Rockshox designed the whole "Climb trail descend" modes with a bit of LSC adjustments to aid chassis stability (e.g. during climbs, brake dives).

Suggesting that OP fiddle with LSC just made his bike into a hardtail/stiff bike though. Because, as you mentioned, it does affect the dampening overall.

Seems like OP likes his settings where they were originally at. Only thing he can do now is keep pressure the same and add volume spacers to prevent bottom out (again, to keep it simple).

Rockshox may decide to get rid of their HSC, however Fox didn't. it is still being used by their riders among the two most popular setups - Fox 36/Fox 40 and X2/DHX2. However, it is still always easy to tune around HSC to prevent blowing through travel (e.g. thicker oil, more air, volume spacers, lastly a re-shim), but having HSC is nice.

But in the end, suspension setup is all personal preference, some riders are complete opposites.

http://www.mbr.co.uk/news/pro-fork-settings-357482

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