The new Troy 29er is Amazing!

PB Forum :: Devinci
The new Troy 29er is Amazing!
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flag wheelza
O+
Posted: Mar 2, 2020 at 17:35 Quote
Does anyone know why the 19 Troy LTD and 20 Troy LTD have different head angles? The 19 has a 65.5 HA in low and the 20 has a 66 in low, both have the 160 fork.
flag DMal
O+ FL
Posted: Mar 2, 2020 at 22:36 Quote
wheelza wrote:
Does anyone know why the 19 Troy LTD and 20 Troy LTD have different head angles? The 19 has a 65.5 HA in low and the 20 has a 66 in low, both have the 160 fork.

I’m pretty sure the 2019 geometry (65.5 HA) is correct for the 160 fork. For 2020, it looks like they just copied the 150 fork geometry chart on the website.

As far as I know, the frame is unchanged for 2020.
flag DMal
O+ FL
Posted: Mar 2, 2020 at 22:40 Quote
Has anyone tried the bike with both short and long offset forks? I’d be interested to hear how it changes the feel.
flag wheelza
O+
Posted: Mar 3, 2020 at 0:35 Quote
DMal wrote:
wheelza wrote:
Does anyone know why the 19 Troy LTD and 20 Troy LTD have different head angles? The 19 has a 65.5 HA in low and the 20 has a 66 in low, both have the 160 fork.

I’m pretty sure the 2019 geometry (65.5 HA) is correct for the 160 fork. For 2020, it looks like they just copied the 150 fork geometry chart on the website.

As far as I know, the frame is unchanged for 2020.

Thats what I thought, but I emailed devinci and they got back with me saying that their geo info online was correct for the troy. They didn't give me info on what had changed between the two yrs, even though I asked that also.
flag wheelza
O+
Posted: Mar 3, 2020 at 0:51 Quote
DMal wrote:
Has anyone tried the bike with both short and long offset forks? I’d be interested to hear how it changes the feel.

I've tried it on my 19 Troy with the original 150mm 51 offset pike and then switched to a 160mm 42 offset lyrik. Essentially making it an ltd version. I feel like the change has made the bike more maneuverable in climbing and descending, everything just feels more responsive to input. The difference isn't huge but there was a difference and it made the bike feel better in my opinion. I noticed it the most when cornering in descents and in any type of turning on climbs.
flag DMal
O+ FL
Posted: Mar 3, 2020 at 6:46 Quote
wheelza wrote:
DMal wrote:
Has anyone tried the bike with both short and long offset forks? I’d be interested to hear how it changes the feel.

I've tried it on my 19 Troy with the original 150mm 51 offset pike and then switched to a 160mm 42 offset lyrik. Essentially making it an ltd version. I feel like the change has made the bike more maneuverable in climbing and descending, everything just feels more responsive to input. The difference isn't huge but there was a difference and it made the bike feel better in my opinion. I noticed it the most when cornering in descents and in any type of turning on climbs.

Thanks, this is good info. I find my Ltd. feels a bit less stable at speed when it gets rough and/or steep than I’d like. It feels like the front wheel is a bit more tucked under the bars than I’d want it to be. My theory is that the short offset fork sharpens the handling on more moderate terrain at the expense of some stability, which is why it works well when paired with a slacker head angle.

I have a 1.5 degree angleset on order, but am wondering if a 51 offset fork would also accomplish what I’m after. I have my 42 offset Lyrik at 170, which gets a 65 degree head angle, which is the same as my previous bike, which didn’t show these traits. A 65 degree head angle should be plenty stable in the steeps.

This review of the first gen Ripmo matches what I’m feeling: https://nsmb.com/articles/2018-ibis-ripmo-reviewed/

“The shorter offset calms the front wheel in a number of situations — climbing and cornering in smooth terrain being two noticeable areas. I still found it to exhibit a nervous demeanour when going for it in aggressive terrain. On flatter, bermed trails, the geometry complimented an energetic rider. It made time where it didn’t seem any existed and danced down the trail with ease. Tip it down a steep grade where comfort at speed is key, or put it through terrain with lots of root and rock, and the bike wasn’t as comfortable. Repeatedly I found it required more rider input in these situations, compared to similar bikes. As a tall rider, I found myself having to push the front of the bike further ahead when coming into rough sections, moving the front wheel further away from my mass.”
flag wheelza
O+
Posted: Mar 3, 2020 at 12:55 Quote
DMal wrote:
wheelza wrote:
DMal wrote:
Has anyone tried the bike with both short and long offset forks? I’d be interested to hear how it changes the feel.

I've tried it on my 19 Troy with the original 150mm 51 offset pike and then switched to a 160mm 42 offset lyrik. Essentially making it an ltd version. I feel like the change has made the bike more maneuverable in climbing and descending, everything just feels more responsive to input. The difference isn't huge but there was a difference and it made the bike feel better in my opinion. I noticed it the most when cornering in descents and in any type of turning on climbs.

Thanks, this is good info. I find my Ltd. feels a bit less stable at speed when it gets rough and/or steep than I’d like. It feels like the front wheel is a bit more tucked under the bars than I’d want it to be. My theory is that the short offset fork sharpens the handling on more moderate terrain at the expense of some stability, which is why it works well when paired with a slacker head angle.

I have a 1.5 degree angleset on order, but am wondering if a 51 offset fork would also accomplish what I’m after. I have my 42 offset Lyrik at 170, which gets a 65 degree head angle, which is the same as my previous bike, which didn’t show these traits. A 65 degree head angle should be plenty stable in the steeps.

This review of the first gen Ripmo matches what I’m feeling: https://nsmb.com/articles/2018-ibis-ripmo-reviewed/

“The shorter offset calms the front wheel in a number of situations — climbing and cornering in smooth terrain being two noticeable areas. I still found it to exhibit a nervous demeanour when going for it in aggressive terrain. On flatter, bermed trails, the geometry complimented an energetic rider. It made time where it didn’t seem any existed and danced down the trail with ease. Tip it down a steep grade where comfort at speed is key, or put it through terrain with lots of root and rock, and the bike wasn’t as comfortable. Repeatedly I found it required more rider input in these situations, compared to similar bikes. As a tall rider, I found myself having to push the front of the bike further ahead when coming into rough sections, moving the front wheel further away from my mass.”

I'm interested in hearing how the 170 travel and 63.5 HA pair together on the Troy. Definitely give a ride report if you can.
flag DMal
O+ FL
Posted: Mar 3, 2020 at 16:01 Quote
wheelza wrote:
DMal wrote:
wheelza wrote:


I've tried it on my 19 Troy with the original 150mm 51 offset pike and then switched to a 160mm 42 offset lyrik. Essentially making it an ltd version. I feel like the change has made the bike more maneuverable in climbing and descending, everything just feels more responsive to input. The difference isn't huge but there was a difference and it made the bike feel better in my opinion. I noticed it the most when cornering in descents and in any type of turning on climbs.

Thanks, this is good info. I find my Ltd. feels a bit less stable at speed when it gets rough and/or steep than I’d like. It feels like the front wheel is a bit more tucked under the bars than I’d want it to be. My theory is that the short offset fork sharpens the handling on more moderate terrain at the expense of some stability, which is why it works well when paired with a slacker head angle.

I have a 1.5 degree angleset on order, but am wondering if a 51 offset fork would also accomplish what I’m after. I have my 42 offset Lyrik at 170, which gets a 65 degree head angle, which is the same as my previous bike, which didn’t show these traits. A 65 degree head angle should be plenty stable in the steeps.

This review of the first gen Ripmo matches what I’m feeling: https://nsmb.com/articles/2018-ibis-ripmo-reviewed/

“The shorter offset calms the front wheel in a number of situations — climbing and cornering in smooth terrain being two noticeable areas. I still found it to exhibit a nervous demeanour when going for it in aggressive terrain. On flatter, bermed trails, the geometry complimented an energetic rider. It made time where it didn’t seem any existed and danced down the trail with ease. Tip it down a steep grade where comfort at speed is key, or put it through terrain with lots of root and rock, and the bike wasn’t as comfortable. Repeatedly I found it required more rider input in these situations, compared to similar bikes. As a tall rider, I found myself having to push the front of the bike further ahead when coming into rough sections, moving the front wheel further away from my mass.”

I'm interested in hearing how the 170 travel and 63.5 HA pair together on the Troy. Definitely give a ride report if you can.

Will do. Long story, but I now have both 1.0 and 1.5 degree Works headsets coming my way. I am going to start with the 1.0 and see how that feels. Geometry calculations tell me that the 1.0 degree headset will lengthen the front-centre by 11 mm, which is in similar order as going from a 42 mm to 51 mm offset fork. So that's probably not a bad starting point.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 3, 2020 at 16:29 Quote
DMal wrote:
Will do. Long story, but I now have both 1.0 and 1.5 degree Works headsets coming my way. I am going to start with the 1.0 and see how that feels. Geometry calculations tell me that the 1.0 degree headset will lengthen the front-centre by 11 mm, which is in similar order as going from a 42 mm to 51 mm offset fork. So that's probably not a bad starting point.

• Similar in front-centre length, but the slacker head-tube angle also increases trail. The real purpose of decreasing fork offset is increasing trail, not modifying front-centre length, so you're doubling up on the increased trail.
• Keep in mind the dynamic geometry is different from the static geometry. For example, people often calculate a slacker head-tube angle from increasing fork travel, but the long- and short-travel options both bottom out at the same length, so the angles are the same when you need it most. Your off-axis headset is the better way to slack out a head-tube angle. It's still important to consider the dynamic geometry, though.
flag DMal
O+ FL
Posted: Mar 3, 2020 at 17:22 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
• Similar in front-centre length, but the slacker head-tube angle also increases trail. The real purpose of decreasing fork offset is increasing trail, not modifying front-centre length, so you're doubling up on the increased trail.
• Keep in mind the dynamic geometry is different from the static geometry. For example, people often calculate a slacker head-tube angle from increasing fork travel, but the long- and short-travel options both bottom out at the same length, so the angles are the same when you need it most. Your off-axis headset is the better way to slack out a head-tube angle. It's still important to consider the dynamic geometry, though.

Good points. Long offset + steep HA and short offset + slack HA for sure will ride differently, with very different trail measurements. But I think the ride quality I'm looking to change is related to where my centre of mass is relative to the front axle, and I was just stating the comparison between the fork offset differences and head angle change.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 3, 2020 at 17:24 Quote
It's a complex interplay of variables and good on ya for experimenting with it! Looking forward to your thoughts on the changes.
flag DMal
O+ FL
Posted: Mar 8, 2020 at 19:11 Quote
I got a couple rides in this weekend with the 1.0 degree Works angleset, which I'm running with a 170 mm travel, 42 mm offset Lyrik. I am pretty stoked with the ride quality. The bike demands a bit more weight on the front wheel to get it to bite, but it also allows a more aggressive, forward riding style. Gone is any twitchiness I had noticed with the stock configuration. The front wheel also does not feel floppy on the climbs.

Given that I still want a versatile bike, I don't think it needs to be any slacker now. So I am cancelling the order I had on the 1.5 degree headset (which is backordered and hasn't gone out yet).
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 8, 2020 at 21:19 Quote
Thanks for the update and glad to hear it's moved the handling in the right direction.
flag freerider11
O+
Posted: Mar 9, 2020 at 5:19 Quote
Really curious what these mods have done to your STA? I think we may have had this conversation before...

On my Troy with a 150mm 51mm offset fork, I still found the STA to be a little on the slack side. With the 170mm fork, 42mm offset, and an angleset to slacken it even further now, your STA must be super slack. I know you definitely have a priority on descending with this setup (as you should, especially considering where you live!), but man, long steep sustained climbs must be a bit of a chore.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Mar 9, 2020 at 6:24 Quote
freerider11 wrote:
With the 170mm fork, 42mm offset, and an angleset to slacken it even further now, your STA must be super slack.

The offset will have essentially no effect on ST° and the off-axis headset will steepen the ST° a tiny bit. The change in static ST° should be about 1° and a bit less for the dynamic angle due to greater sag with the longer fork.

 


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