Shock Sizing 2018 Smuggler

PB Forum :: Transition
Shock Sizing 2018 Smuggler
Author Message
flag modulark
Posted: Nov 17, 2021 at 14:23 Quote
@burnskiez & @Ratz90
super interested to hear both your feedback on Cascade Link and running the longer stroke shock.

currently accumulating parts for my NOS Smuggler build (Carbon, MY 2018, size L)

right now running a 2017 Carbon Scout which is all I need for my local trails which happen to be plenty steep and technical but tight and quite short so I know all the twists and bumps and can stay active and make the most of the fun on the way down. run the shock a little firm for plenty of pop and rarely bottom out.
best bike I've ever owned, maybe it was stupid to buy the Smuggler frame but...

my thinking is Smuggler will be similar feel but with bigger wheels and longer Geo to better suit when I venture away from home to longer unfamiliar trails and open mountain descending where there's more surprises and speeds can get higher.

to this end more travel would be nice but I'm not sure I'd be aggressive enough to get the most out of the Cascade link.
regular rider for over 10 years, generally among the quickest in my riding group of mid 40s not super fit (but similarly experienced) types.

any advice based on your experiences would be hugely appreciated and perhaps save me a couple of hundred bucks Wink
flag Ratz90
Posted: Nov 18, 2021 at 1:10 Quote
modulark wrote:
@burnskiez & @Ratz90
super interested to hear both your feedback on Cascade Link and running the longer stroke shock.

currently accumulating parts for my NOS Smuggler build (Carbon, MY 2018, size L)

right now running a 2017 Carbon Scout which is all I need for my local trails which happen to be plenty steep and technical but tight and quite short so I know all the twists and bumps and can stay active and make the most of the fun on the way down. run the shock a little firm for plenty of pop and rarely bottom out.
best bike I've ever owned, maybe it was stupid to buy the Smuggler frame but...

my thinking is Smuggler will be similar feel but with bigger wheels and longer Geo to better suit when I venture away from home to longer unfamiliar trails and open mountain descending where there's more surprises and speeds can get higher.

to this end more travel would be nice but I'm not sure I'd be aggressive enough to get the most out of the Cascade link.
regular rider for over 10 years, generally among the quickest in my riding group of mid 40s not super fit (but similarly experienced) types.

any advice based on your experiences would be hugely appreciated and perhaps save me a couple of hundred bucks Wink

Hi modulark!

I was also riding a 2016 Scout (with an 1,5° angle set installed) before.
You are totally right, the Smuggler feels quite simmilar in terms of suspension design, but the 29" wheels and the longer wheelbase make it way more capable on the downs and the steeper seat tube angle feels more comfortable on the climbs.

Imo you don't need the cascade link right away, first thing I would do is upgrade to a dpx2. If you got a lot of roots and rocks on your local trails, the bike feels much more planted and controllable, while keeping it's liveliness.
If you want even more, then get the cascade link Wink
Then with a 55mm stroke shock, you can basically build a (improved?) sentinel. You just need an 1° angle set and change the fork travel to 160mm.
flag modulark
Posted: Nov 18, 2021 at 3:16 Quote
Ratz90 wrote:

Hi modulark!

I was also riding a 2016 Scout (with an 1,5° angle set installed) before.
You are totally right, the Smuggler feels quite simmilar in terms of suspension design, but the 29" wheels and the longer wheelbase make it way more capable on the downs and the steeper seat tube angle feels more comfortable on the climbs.

Imo you don't need the cascade link right away, first thing I would do is upgrade to a dpx2. If you got a lot of roots and rocks on your local trails, the bike feels much more planted and controllable, while keeping it's liveliness.
If you want even more, then get the cascade link Wink
Then with a 55mm stroke shock, you can basically build a (improved?) sentinel. You just need an 1° angle set and change the fork travel to 160mm.

Thanks Ratz,
That's pretty much what I'm after, enough support and control to maximize the travel that's there.
If I was to go with a 50mm stroke DPX2 can I increase stroke to 55mm (or 52.5mm) when maybe adding the cascade later on? something that can be done at home or only by a suspension specialist?
flag Ratz90
Posted: Nov 18, 2021 at 3:35 Quote
Sure, you can "extract" the travel spacer quite easily, the other way round is a bit more complicated since the shock has to be disassembled.
flag modulark
Posted: Nov 18, 2021 at 5:33 Quote
Ratz90 wrote:
Sure, you can "extract" the travel spacer quite easily, the other way round is a bit more complicated since the shock has to be disassembled.

Sweet, that gives me a nice incremental upgrade path
stock shock with 150 Fox 36 > better shock > cascade link > increase stroke

thanks again, and do please update again if you have any more insights Smile
flag burnskiez
Posted: Nov 18, 2021 at 10:03 Quote
Hi guys, cool conversation going on here. I definitely agree with the 150mm fork being the most bang for your buck upgrade. When I put mine together I went with a Bomber z2 150 and have been very happy with it. I did not ride the bike with the stock link and the 210x55 shock so I cannot comment on how it works in that configuration. I'm not sure I would be able to as I am already bottoming the shock out quite frequently so I'd be concerned about what would happen with a less progressive design. The disclaimer I will give is that its a DVO unit back there and I am not familiar with these at all so I haven't put much effort into tuning it besides setting sag. I started this whole experiment because I had sent my stock unit into Avy suspension and had the opportunity to borrow the dvo off my sisters ripmo.

I'm looking forward to getting the stock unit back from Avy and running it like that with the cascade link. I'm not sure the piggyback units are a great fit for these bikes with their not super progressive linkages. I think the reason we've all been so happy with the swaps though, just illustrates how bad the stock units are so anything else is a drastic improvement. If you did want to really go all in with a bigger shock, I think the bomber cr would probably be the best way. The coil units are way more durable. However with the way I'm riding the bike right now, I'm mostly worried about frame damage so I decided not to go down that road. I'll just happily continue riding my trusty alloy patrol, thats what its for lol. The smuggler is too damn sexy to abuse like I've been doing to it while the patrol is off the trails (also getting its shock rebuilt by avy right now).

I'm not gonna deny how well the smuggler is working right now with the piggyback shock and the cascade link. Its really making me wish I'd built it up with sram codes instead of the guides because its definitely building and carrying speed like a much bigger bike. I'm just very worried about the long term durability of the frame with some of the hits its been taking. It handles em like a champ but I know its not designed for that, already went down this road before with my first mountain bike, 2014 salsa horsethief.

Good luck with everyone's mad science experiments!!
flag Ratz90
Posted: Nov 19, 2021 at 3:05 Quote
Personally, I wouldn't be to worried about the druability of the frame. Since Smuggler and Sentinel basically weigh the same (only difference is the shock afaik), I assume they are both built for heavy abuse Wink
Also, never really heard of any cracking issues with the 2018+ frames.

About your suggestion to use a coil shock:
I tried a super deluxe coil for a few weeks (with the stock link though), but didn't really like it since i had to use a higher spring rate to not bottoming out all the time. Unfortunately I sold the shock, would be interesting to try it now in combination with the cascade link.
flag JBW450
FL
Posted: Nov 19, 2021 at 5:23 Quote
I've found the TriAir/TOPAZ to be a good compromise with the stock linkage on the 2018+ Smuggler.

Seem to be a fairly linear shock, but definitely not a coil.

Have been really digging my bad haircut Smuggler with 150mm/139mm travel.

photo
flag gbeaks33
Posted: Nov 19, 2021 at 6:12 Quote
Ratz90 wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't be to worried about the druability of the frame. Since Smuggler and Sentinel basically weigh the same (only difference is the shock afaik), I assume they are both built for heavy abuse Wink
Also, never really heard of any cracking issues with the 2018+ frames.

About your suggestion to use a coil shock:
I tried a super deluxe coil for a few weeks (with the stock link though), but didn't really like it since i had to use a higher spring rate to not bottoming out all the time. Unfortunately I sold the shock, would be interesting to try it now in combination with the cascade link.

I believe the smuggler frame is basically the same as a sentinel, yes. However, I cracked my Smuggler frame twice. Rear triangle replaced on warranty and rocker link replaced on warranty as well. Both super easy experiences. Less than a week turnaround time including shop time to reinstall.
flag modulark
Posted: Nov 19, 2021 at 16:48 Quote
this right here is the best of the internet, hobbyists going balls deep just for the heck of it Big Grin
reading threads like this over the years really brought that extra zest to my MTBing and being my own test pilot is freaking awesome. to all you crazy cats, I salute you!!
flag Ratz90
Posted: Nov 23, 2021 at 1:30 Quote
gbeaks33 wrote:
I believe the smuggler frame is basically the same as a sentinel, yes. However, I cracked my Smuggler frame twice. Rear triangle replaced on warranty and rocker link replaced on warranty as well. Both super easy experiences. Less than a week turnaround time including shop time to reinstall.

Out of interest, where exactly did it crack? Do you have some pictures maybe? So I will know which areas I should inspect Wink
Good to hear you got the replacement without any problems.
Already had quite a few crashes with mine, but until now the only thing that broke were my bones and some rims Big Grin
flag gbeaks33
Posted: Nov 24, 2021 at 18:43 Quote
Ratz90 wrote:
gbeaks33 wrote:
I believe the smuggler frame is basically the same as a sentinel, yes. However, I cracked my Smuggler frame twice. Rear triangle replaced on warranty and rocker link replaced on warranty as well. Both super easy experiences. Less than a week turnaround time including shop time to reinstall.

Out of interest, where exactly did it crack? Do you have some pictures maybe? So I will know which areas I should inspect Wink
Good to hear you got the replacement without any problems.
Already had quite a few crashes with mine, but until now the only thing that broke were my bones and some rims Big Grin

Lower chainstay broke but I'm not even sure what side. Bike shop identified it during a preseason tuneup. Next time I saw the bike it had a fresh one so not really sure where it happened or how long I had been riding it like that. So no photos.

The other warranty replacement was not really the frame breaking. Paid for a bike park pass and noticed my upper shock bolt was sticking out on my first lap. I had assumed it had unscrewed itself so went to fix it but the bolt just kept spinning. Turns out the shock bolt had sheared where the threads go into the rocker link. Lost the whole day at the park. Smuggler only has the bolt accessible from one side, so can't use an extractor bolt to remove it. The shop had to carefully angle grind the shock mounting hardware off but unfortunately could not remove the bolt and had to grind into the carbon to get it out. So it had to be replaced. Common issue, apparently. Had the new rocker and bolt in like a week.
flag modulark
Posted: Nov 25, 2021 at 9:55 Quote
@gbeaks
was that a carbon or aluminum frame?
I had read somewhere that their alu bikes had some form here but not so with the carbon.
This was a factor in choosing to buy the carbon frame considering by the time I get mine built up at best I'll have a maybe a year and a half left on warranty.
flag gbeaks33
Posted: Nov 25, 2021 at 13:57 Quote
Carbon frame. They also warranty all carbon frames from 2018 and onwards for life for original owner.
flag modulark
Posted: Nov 28, 2021 at 15:33 Quote
gbeaks33 wrote:
Carbon frame. They also warranty all carbon frames from 2018 and onwards for life for original owner.
their site says 3 years for 2018/19 and life for the newly released models in 2020 and onwards.
https://www.transitionbikes.com/Support.cfm
if I'm gonna break it I'd better break it fast Wink

 


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