commencal clash

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commencal clash
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flag militantmandy
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 2:27 Quote
tannerzinck wrote:
liamhutch89 wrote:
tannerzinck wrote:
Anyone have much experience using a super deluxe with megneg can on the pre 2021 models? Especially compared to other options (coil, x2, regular super deluxe).

I'm using the megneg and it was a massive upgrade for me on the 2021 Clash. After lots of experimenting, my setup is 0 tokens in the positive chamber, 0 bands in the negative chamber for the largest effect from the megneg, 290 psi which lands me at around 26% sag, and the shock is anchored into the sensitive position on the frame.

There's tons of support to push into when cornering and pumping the terrain, and a bottomless feel on big hits, but I use all of the travel when needed. I favour a firmer setup that works better for me on the limit, rather than seeking comfort and suppleness.

Rebound and low speed compression are the settings I change depending on my energy, the track, the weather, etc. but typically will be at around 4 clicks of LSC (from softest) and 6 clicks of rebound (from fast).

The bike came from the factory with 3 tokens in the super deluxe's positive air chamber and it had 0 support in the mid stroke. I haven't tried any other shocks on the bike but the rear end with my current settings now feels better than my previous Capra 29 with an Ohlins TTX coil shock.

Thanks for the reply, good to know!

On my 2020 origin with the deluxe (non piggy back) "0 support in the mid stroke" pretty much sums it up. I wonder how much they backed off the progressiveness for the 2021 compared to the previous models. My understanding is that the megneg can cause too much end stroke progression on some bikes.

I am definitely finding that I have too much end stroke progression with the megneg fitted to my Nomad V4. Currently on 2 bands and no tokens, so I will add in the another band and see if that helps. Struggling to reach full travel unless I case the absolute sh*t out of a double.
flag liamhutch89
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 5:00 Quote
tannerzinck wrote:
liamhutch89 wrote:
tannerzinck wrote:
Anyone have much experience using a super deluxe with megneg can on the pre 2021 models? Especially compared to other options (coil, x2, regular super deluxe).

I'm using the megneg and it was a massive upgrade for me on the 2021 Clash. After lots of experimenting, my setup is 0 tokens in the positive chamber, 0 bands in the negative chamber for the largest effect from the megneg, 290 psi which lands me at around 26% sag, and the shock is anchored into the sensitive position on the frame.

There's tons of support to push into when cornering and pumping the terrain, and a bottomless feel on big hits, but I use all of the travel when needed. I favour a firmer setup that works better for me on the limit, rather than seeking comfort and suppleness.

Rebound and low speed compression are the settings I change depending on my energy, the track, the weather, etc. but typically will be at around 4 clicks of LSC (from softest) and 6 clicks of rebound (from fast).

The bike came from the factory with 3 tokens in the super deluxe's positive air chamber and it had 0 support in the mid stroke. I haven't tried any other shocks on the bike but the rear end with my current settings now feels better than my previous Capra 29 with an Ohlins TTX coil shock.

Thanks for the reply, good to know!

On my 2020 origin with the deluxe (non piggy back) "0 support in the mid stroke" pretty much sums it up. I wonder how much they backed off the progressiveness for the 2021 compared to the previous models. My understanding is that the megneg can cause too much end stroke progression on some bikes.

As an aggressive rider I used to think more progression was always better, but I've come to learn that an overly progressive linkage or spring will by design have to be softer in the midstroke when it's setup correctly for bottom out.

Before I got the megneg I pulled all the tokens from the super deluxe and reduced sag from 30% to 25%, big improvement right there, and it was improved again by reducing sag further to around 23% - hitting recommended sag really isn't a good measure of how well your suspension is set up. I'd recommend experimenting with this if you don't want to spend money on the megneg.
flag liamhutch89
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 5:06 Quote
militantmandy wrote:
tannerzinck wrote:
liamhutch89 wrote:


I'm using the megneg and it was a massive upgrade for me on the 2021 Clash. After lots of experimenting, my setup is 0 tokens in the positive chamber, 0 bands in the negative chamber for the largest effect from the megneg, 290 psi which lands me at around 26% sag, and the shock is anchored into the sensitive position on the frame.

There's tons of support to push into when cornering and pumping the terrain, and a bottomless feel on big hits, but I use all of the travel when needed. I favour a firmer setup that works better for me on the limit, rather than seeking comfort and suppleness.

Rebound and low speed compression are the settings I change depending on my energy, the track, the weather, etc. but typically will be at around 4 clicks of LSC (from softest) and 6 clicks of rebound (from fast).

The bike came from the factory with 3 tokens in the super deluxe's positive air chamber and it had 0 support in the mid stroke. I haven't tried any other shocks on the bike but the rear end with my current settings now feels better than my previous Capra 29 with an Ohlins TTX coil shock.

Thanks for the reply, good to know!

On my 2020 origin with the deluxe (non piggy back) "0 support in the mid stroke" pretty much sums it up. I wonder how much they backed off the progressiveness for the 2021 compared to the previous models. My understanding is that the megneg can cause too much end stroke progression on some bikes.

I am definitely finding that I have too much end stroke progression with the megneg fitted to my Nomad V4. Currently on 2 bands and no tokens, so I will add in the another band and see if that helps. Struggling to reach full travel unless I case the absolute sh*t out of a double.

Ignoring the travel used on an average ride, how does it feel?

170mm of travel is supposed to be hard to use. I wouldn't expect to use that much travel on anything short of proper DH tracks at full speed/aggression or casing/landing flat on big jumps.

Consider the extreme case of riding a flow track with your bike set up to use full travel. It would feel terrible and unstable due to being too soft! In this situation a shorter travel bike would be optimal, but then next best solution would be to accept you will only be using half of your travel.

Now i'm not saying you're just riding flow trails but it might be worth considering whether the terrain and aggression on a given day warrants full use of the travel.
flag militantmandy
Posted: Oct 9, 2020 at 0:47 Quote
liamhutch89 wrote:
militantmandy wrote:
tannerzinck wrote:


Thanks for the reply, good to know!

On my 2020 origin with the deluxe (non piggy back) "0 support in the mid stroke" pretty much sums it up. I wonder how much they backed off the progressiveness for the 2021 compared to the previous models. My understanding is that the megneg can cause too much end stroke progression on some bikes.

I am definitely finding that I have too much end stroke progression with the megneg fitted to my Nomad V4. Currently on 2 bands and no tokens, so I will add in the another band and see if that helps. Struggling to reach full travel unless I case the absolute sh*t out of a double.

Ignoring the travel used on an average ride, how does it feel?

170mm of travel is supposed to be hard to use. I wouldn't expect to use that much travel on anything short of proper DH tracks at full speed/aggression or casing/landing flat on big jumps.

Consider the extreme case of riding a flow track with your bike set up to use full travel. It would feel terrible and unstable due to being too soft! In this situation a shorter travel bike would be optimal, but then next best solution would be to accept you will only be using half of your travel.

Now i'm not saying you're just riding flow trails but it might be worth considering whether the terrain and aggression on a given day warrants full use of the travel.

It's a totally fair point. The bike actually feels great, but I'm using maybe 75% travel. I generally ride steep, rough and fast trails, but not much in the way of big drops and jumps. Maybe my expectations are a bit skewed.
flag liamhutch89
Posted: Oct 9, 2020 at 3:14 Quote
militantmandy wrote:
It's a totally fair point. The bike actually feels great, but I'm using maybe 75% travel. I generally ride steep, rough and fast trails, but not much in the way of big drops and jumps. Maybe my expectations are a bit skewed.

Sounds like it could be set up about right then as you're riding hard enough to use full travel when you f*ck up! I've heard Steve from Vorsprung (suspension wizard) suggest that the bottom out force should be close to the maximum force your body can hold on to, which makes sense.

Imagine the same case where your suspension is softer - it bottoms out quickly, but only absorbs half the energy, and at this point you might buckle and crash, break rims or both!
flag tannerzinck
O+
Posted: Oct 13, 2020 at 19:02 Quote
Pulled the shock off my 2020 clash origin tonight to check the damper tune, and grease the hardware. Noticed a couple things.

There's pretty significant wear on one side of the lower shock mount bolt where it sits inside the eyelet bushing. All the finish is worn off (kinda expected) and there's quite a bit of scoring. There's also some visible scoring on the eyelet bushing. This is a lot more wear than I was expecting to see on a bike with only a couple bike park days, and ~15 shorter rides on the local trails.

Also, the eyelet bushing spacers seem too short, they don't fully cover the bushing even before the o-rings are compressed. When I was putting the lower shock mount back together and had the bolt just starting to bottom out, there is still a ton of play between the bolt and the eyelet bushing and I could wiggle the shock around quite a lot. I would have expected there to be almost none at this point. Once the bolt is torqued down there's not perceptible play, because the eyelet bushing is squeezed between the steel inserts on either side of the frame, but there is a A TON of resistance to just swing the shock around the eyelet. Is it expected to have the bushing pinched between the inserts on either side?

Is this all normal and I'm just being too fussy? Wondering if anyone else has noticed anything similar.
flag Adamtborski
Posted: Oct 13, 2020 at 21:40 Quote
tannerzinck wrote:
Pulled the shock off my 2020 clash origin tonight to check the damper tune, and grease the hardware. Noticed a couple things.

There's pretty significant wear on one side of the lower shock mount bolt where it sits inside the eyelet bushing. All the finish is worn off (kinda expected) and there's quite a bit of scoring. There's also some visible scoring on the eyelet bushing. This is a lot more wear than I was expecting to see on a bike with only a couple bike park days, and ~15 shorter rides on the local trails.

Also, the eyelet bushing spacers seem too short, they don't fully cover the bushing even before the o-rings are compressed. When I was putting the lower shock mount back together and had the bolt just starting to bottom out, there is still a ton of play between the bolt and the eyelet bushing and I could wiggle the shock around quite a lot. I would have expected there to be almost none at this point. Once the bolt is torqued down there's not perceptible play, because the eyelet bushing is squeezed between the steel inserts on either side of the frame, but there is a A TON of resistance to just swing the shock around the eyelet. Is it expected to have the bushing pinched between the inserts on either side?

Is this all normal and I'm just being too fussy? Wondering if anyone else has noticed anything similar.

I actually had this exact same problem, but it never caused more issues down the road. Contacted Commencal and they said it was normal?? Weird
flag tannerzinck
O+
Posted: Oct 13, 2020 at 22:24 Quote
Adamtborski wrote:
tannerzinck wrote:
Pulled the shock off my 2020 clash origin tonight to check the damper tune, and grease the hardware. Noticed a couple things.

There's pretty significant wear on one side of the lower shock mount bolt where it sits inside the eyelet bushing. All the finish is worn off (kinda expected) and there's quite a bit of scoring. There's also some visible scoring on the eyelet bushing. This is a lot more wear than I was expecting to see on a bike with only a couple bike park days, and ~15 shorter rides on the local trails.

Also, the eyelet bushing spacers seem too short, they don't fully cover the bushing even before the o-rings are compressed. When I was putting the lower shock mount back together and had the bolt just starting to bottom out, there is still a ton of play between the bolt and the eyelet bushing and I could wiggle the shock around quite a lot. I would have expected there to be almost none at this point. Once the bolt is torqued down there's not perceptible play, because the eyelet bushing is squeezed between the steel inserts on either side of the frame, but there is a A TON of resistance to just swing the shock around the eyelet. Is it expected to have the bushing pinched between the inserts on either side?

Is this all normal and I'm just being too fussy? Wondering if anyone else has noticed anything similar.

I actually had this exact same problem, but it never caused more issues down the road. Contacted Commencal and they said it was normal?? Weird

Weird, you have the super tight fit when its all tightened up and the scoring on the bolt? Seems weird to me, kinda surprised they said its normal.
flag Zmagas
Posted: Oct 14, 2020 at 6:29 Quote
I have 2020 Clash Race, I weight 67kg, shock (super deluxe) pressure is 125psi (~30% SAG). It is supportive, but it lacks sensitivity, I almost never bottom out (1mm left from end of stroke).

Will MegNeg give me more small bump compliance/sensitivity or it is aimed at heavier riders?
flag Bird82
Posted: Oct 14, 2020 at 12:44 Quote
Zmagas wrote:
I have 2020 Clash Race, I weight 67kg, shock (super deluxe) pressure is 125psi (~30% SAG). It is supportive, but it lacks sensitivity, I almost never bottom out (1mm left from end of stroke).

Will MegNeg give me more small bump compliance/sensitivity or it is aimed at heavier riders?

I’d say speed up the low spead compression and rebound , will track better and create a livelier ride.
flag Bird82
Posted: Oct 14, 2020 at 12:47 Quote
tannerzinck wrote:
Adamtborski wrote:
tannerzinck wrote:
Pulled the shock off my 2020 clash origin tonight to check the damper tune, and grease the hardware. Noticed a couple things.

There's pretty significant wear on one side of the lower shock mount bolt where it sits inside the eyelet bushing. All the finish is worn off (kinda expected) and there's quite a bit of scoring. There's also some visible scoring on the eyelet bushing. This is a lot more wear than I was expecting to see on a bike with only a couple bike park days, and ~15 shorter rides on the local trails.

Also, the eyelet bushing spacers seem too short, they don't fully cover the bushing even before the o-rings are compressed. When I was putting the lower shock mount back together and had the bolt just starting to bottom out, there is still a ton of play between the bolt and the eyelet bushing and I could wiggle the shock around quite a lot. I would have expected there to be almost none at this point. Once the bolt is torqued down there's not perceptible play, because the eyelet bushing is squeezed between the steel inserts on either side of the frame, but there is a A TON of resistance to just swing the shock around the eyelet. Is it expected to have the bushing pinched between the inserts on either side?

Is this all normal and I'm just being too fussy? Wondering if anyone else has noticed anything similar.

I actually had this exact same problem, but it never caused more issues down the road. Contacted Commencal and they said it was normal?? Weird

Weird, you have the super tight fit when its all tightened up and the scoring on the bolt? Seems weird to me, kinda surprised they said its normal.

I also have a little play between the shock and swing arm connection. My bolts are tight but there is movement for sure when lifting my bike up and down. It’s like the bushing is not snug with the bolt!
flag maxtraxx
O+
Posted: Oct 14, 2020 at 16:44 Quote
Anybody know why there are no reviews online of the 2021 Clash? Nothing on here or Bikerader since the initial press release at the end of June. It’s hard to justify that kind of money on a bike I can’t demo and there is very little in the way of reviews.
flag AdamMmtb03
Posted: Oct 14, 2020 at 20:41 Quote
I'm having a hard time making my final decision on purchasing this bike. Most of my trails are high speed tech and steep, but I do have to do short punchy climbs occasionally (east coast US). Anybody ride similar terrain with this bike? How's it perform?

I do like to do enduro and dh races as well, so I was thinking this bike could do it both, I'm just worried it will be slow on some more pedally enduro stages.

I really don't like 29ers so I really wouldn't be as stoked on getting the meta, so I'm leaning towards the clash, I'm just not sure if it would perform how I would like.
flag liamhutch89
Posted: Oct 15, 2020 at 1:30 Quote
AdamMmtb03 wrote:
I'm having a hard time making my final decision on purchasing this bike. Most of my trails are high speed tech and steep, but I do have to do short punchy climbs occasionally (east coast US). Anybody ride similar terrain with this bike? How's it perform?

I do like to do enduro and dh races as well, so I was thinking this bike could do it both, I'm just worried it will be slow on some more pedally enduro stages.

I really don't like 29ers so I really wouldn't be as stoked on getting the meta, so I'm leaning towards the clash, I'm just not sure if it would perform how I would like.

High speed and tech? for me it's usually it's one or the other but maybe you are a better rider than me. For really steep techy stuff i'm faster on my 27.5 Clash than I was on my 29 Capra because despite being 6'2, I can make use of the increased manoeuvrability (better pumping, cornering and agility).

For flat out rough stuff (but less tech and twisty) the bigger wheels are quicker. For flatter pedally sections, bigger wheels will maintain speed better but smaller wheels accelerate quicker.

My reason for getting a smaller 27.5 bike was for freeride - jumps, tricks, whips - but was surprised to find I was quicker on tighter, techy DH tracks. If I were racing enduro's I would probably go 29 though.
flag znelson
O+
Posted: Oct 15, 2020 at 3:42 Quote
AdamMmtb03 wrote:
I'm having a hard time making my final decision on purchasing this bike. Most of my trails are high speed tech and steep, but I do have to do short punchy climbs occasionally (east coast US). Anybody ride similar terrain with this bike? How's it perform?

I do like to do enduro and dh races as well, so I was thinking this bike could do it both, I'm just worried it will be slow on some more pedally enduro stages.

I really don't like 29ers so I really wouldn't be as stoked on getting the meta, so I'm leaning towards the clash, I'm just not sure if it would perform how I would like.

The trails near me sound similar to yours - high speed tech and steep with occasional climbs. I've found my 2021 Clash Origin to be great in these conditions. The climbing position is really comfy with the 210mm OneUp dropper. My only complaint is the gearing on the 10sp Origin, but you get what you pay for. Surprisingly, the Commencal spec sheet says my bike should have a 34t chainring, but it came with a 32t. Having 12sp with a +50t cog would help, but so would having stronger legs... soon!

I do wish I had a Meta AM to compare against. My only real reference was my previous 2017 Santa Cruz Bronson which is a pretty different bike.

 


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