commencal clash

PB Forum :: Commencal
commencal clash
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flag frednewton
Posted: Apr 29, 2022 at 14:52 Quote
wow! dude that is such a cool build with triple clamp fork, profile cranks and 26 inch back wheel.

i'm 6'4 and went for a large, it does feel big but i love it more every time i ride it. i usually ride jumps but im thinking about trying a 200mm triple fork for serious dh tracks.
jamesdorrett wrote:
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I finally finished my build.

Had a 2019 clash signature ( large), broke the frame. Got a 2021 on warranty ( went to medium because bike companies are f*ckd these day )

I’m 6’1” 200lb

Took everything off it over the winter and rebuilt it as a dh bike.

27.5 / 26” mullet , spank hoops laced to hope pro 4s

Title cockpit and seat. No dropper

Profile racing 165mm bmx cranks

Reverse single speed kit

Picked up a new boxxer on here, and still running the same DHX2 that came with it

6 tokens, 190 psi, 600lb coil, and 60 psi in the tires.

An absolute bike park dream rig
flag Frenchemetalheads
Posted: May 2, 2022 at 11:55 Quote
So sick!!! Very similar to mine except the double crown.
Did you reduce the travel on ithe fork or is still 200mm??
flag jamesdorrett
Posted: May 3, 2022 at 2:11 Quote
Frenchemetalheads wrote:
So sick!!! Very similar to mine except the double crown.
Did you reduce the travel on ithe fork or is still 200mm??

It’s 180mm
flag bergerdude
O+
Posted: May 11, 2022 at 22:57 Quote
I just built up a new Clash frame (med), loving it so far! However I couldn't find any info on what the flip chip actually does... so I borrowed a 3d scanner and put coordinates to Linkage. Hopefully somebody finds this handy.

3d scan of 2022 Commencal Clash in Sensitive and Dynamic flip chip positions

2022 Commencal Clash leverage ratio in sensitive and dynamic flip chip positions

Kind of surprised to find the dynamic position to be less progressive, but an overall lower leverage ratio, and less travel as a result (I get 157mm). The sensitive position is pretty close to the result others have shared in Linkage. I haven't spent enough time to comment on how this all feels but it does seem really like 2 bikes in one rather than a fine tuning measure.

I actually thought I had labelled something wrong and had the 2 curves mixed up, but apparently not.
flag bergerdude
O+
Posted: May 12, 2022 at 8:02 Quote
Red-October wrote:
Here you go... https://news.commencal.com/news/CLASH-FURIOUS-Kinematic-Adjustment-How-Does-It-Work/1764.html

Maybe I have the names inverted. With the pivot in the up/forward position there is very little progression and less travel. In the down/back position (that the bike shipped in) it provides a leverage curve more like the previous clash and with 170mm travel. Whatever the names, this is what the flip chip does. I rechecked the coord from the scans and the suspension cycles in linkage just like irl.
flag rainbow82
O+
Posted: May 12, 2022 at 9:55 Quote
The dynamic position is less progressive.....very rare Eek

Thanks for sharing
flag vonSpurling
O+
Posted: May 12, 2022 at 11:17 Quote
This is curious for sure. Your graph does seem to be inconsistent with how Commencal describes each setting. In the link Red-October shared they even say the Dynamic position RAISES the BB, while your analysis says that the BB is lower in dynamic.

Am I correct in thinking that a lower leverage ratio means running lower psi in an air shock to achieve the same sag? So in your graph the dynamic setting would require less air pressure to achieve the same sag as the sensitive setting?
flag bergerdude
O+
Posted: May 12, 2022 at 11:29 Quote
vonSpurling wrote:
This is curious for sure. Your graph does seem to be inconsistent with how Commencal describes each setting. In the link Red-October shared they even say the Dynamic position RAISES the BB, while your analysis says that the BB is lower in dynamic.

Am I correct in thinking that a lower leverage ratio means running lower psi in an air shock to achieve the same sag? So in your graph the dynamic setting would require less air pressure to achieve the same sag as the sensitive setting?

To me, way the chip itself is labeled, sensitive is the position with the pivot moved down. Dynamic is with pivot higher. Is that consistent with your understanding?

I don't think either of my leverage curves are wrong, but there could be a mixup in terms either on my side or the press release, or the chip itself lol .

About the static BB height. I measured the bike upside down on the floor, its possible the shock didnt top out identically in the 2 cases (the length eye to eye in the scan comes out to 228.5 and 229.2) so that could be a source of error in the bb height. I'm going to remove my comment on that just in case.
flag vonSpurling
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Posted: May 12, 2022 at 12:05 Quote
I agree with you that I interpret the “Dynamic” position to be the higher/forward bolt setting. That’s how I’ve been running mine. But I’ve always needed a softer spring rate in dynamic vs sensitive, which seems opposite of the leverage ratios you’re reporting.

Mostly - thanks for taking the effort to analyze both settings and share the graphs. This is exactly what I’ve been wanting to see for a while now. I’m just scratching my head trying to reconcile this with what I’ve experienced so far on the bike.
flag bergerdude
O+
Posted: May 12, 2022 at 12:43 Quote
vonSpurling wrote:
This is curious for sure. Your graph does seem to be inconsistent with how Commencal describes each setting. In the link Red-October shared they even say the Dynamic position RAISES the BB, while your analysis says that the BB is lower in dynamic.

Am I correct in thinking that a lower leverage ratio means running lower psi in an air shock to achieve the same sag? So in your graph the dynamic setting would require less air pressure to achieve the same sag as the sensitive setting?
Doing my best to understand things here, I'm not an expert!! Sticking with a coil for comparison because air is crazy.

If you dont touch the shock, you get higher bb height at sag, a tiny bit more bottom out force, stiffer initial and midstroke, lower total travel. Damping could be thrown off a bit. Shock sag might read differently, but it has a different relationship to actual sag.

If you try to match true sagged bb height, you need about 4/5 the spring rate. You'll get less bottom out resistance coupled with lower travel.

I think that the flip chip probably works closest to intended if you leave the same pressure/spring rate, thats the vibe I get from them as well, they just avoided mentioning the lower travel. Something has to give in the equation.

So far, I'm having trouble getting bottom out resistance with 3 bands in my x2 in sensitive mode, at around 25% shock sag (which is more like 30% at the wheel). I went to the dynamic mode hoping that would fix it, but I ended up feeling that stiffer initial rate, when I want the pillowyness. So now I know to go back to sensitive and keep tinkering (1 more band).
flag vonSpurling
O+
Posted: May 12, 2022 at 13:04 Quote
bergerdude wrote:
Doing my best to understand things here, I'm not an expert!! Sticking with a coil for comparison because air is crazy.

If you dont touch the shock, you get higher bb height at sag, a tiny bit more bottom out force, stiffer initial and midstroke, lower total travel. Damping could be thrown off a bit. Shock sag might read differently, but it has a different relationship to actual sag.

If you try to match true sagged bb height, you need about 4/5 the spring rate. You'll get less bottom out resistance coupled with lower travel.

I think that the flip chip probably works closest to intended if you leave the same pressure/spring rate, thats the vibe I get from them as well, they just avoided mentioning the lower travel. Something has to give in the equation.

So far, I'm having trouble getting bottom out resistance with 3 bands in my x2 in sensitive mode, at around 25% shock sag (which is more like 30% at the wheel). I went to the dynamic mode hoping that would fix it, but I ended up feeling that stiffer initial rate, when I want the pillowyness. So now I know to go back to sensitive and keep tinkering (1 more band).

Fascinating.

When I ran a coil, I used 425 lb spring in Dynamic, while a 500 lb spring in sensitive wasn’t quite enough. This is consistent with the 4/5 ratio you mention.

If Commencal intended the spring rate to stay the same, then this does start making more sense. I remember riding the 500 lb spring in dynamic and thinking it felt great in berms, but too stiff for my liking. I continued to fine tune my spring rate in dynamic ASSUMING that was the more progressive leverage curve, and not knowing I was giving up 13mm travel.

Now I run an X2, and your graph has me thinking I should explore the sensitive setting again (which I have not yet tried with this shock).
flag Swarz
Posted: May 14, 2022 at 10:55 Quote
The leverage ratio curves that bergerdude has posted are not correct. You have something messed up in your linkage project.

This is what is the difference between sensitive (blue curve) dynamic (pink curve)


photo

Dynamic has lower leverage ratio, you can use slightly lower spring rate and your shock damping will have greater effect on suspension feel. It's also 4mm less on travel.

On paper it seems like subtle difference but when I switched to dynamic I could feel the change very well and it was good decision for my jump bike park flowy tracks.
flag bergerdude
O+
Posted: May 14, 2022 at 11:49 Quote
Interesting, how did you get your results? I'd like to figure out the issue. I started from an existing project, updated the points in points tab from the scan data in both case.

(I started with Antonio Osuna Hens clash 2021 file)
flag rainbow82
O+
Posted: May 15, 2022 at 13:57 Quote
Swarz wrote:
The leverage ratio curves that bergerdude has posted are not correct. You have something messed up in your linkage project.

This is what is the difference between sensitive (blue curve) dynamic (pink curve)


photo

Dynamic has lower leverage ratio, you can use slightly lower spring rate and your shock damping will have greater effect on suspension feel. It's also 4mm less on travel.

On paper it seems like subtle difference but when I switched to dynamic I could feel the change very well and it was good decision for my jump bike park flowy tracks.

Commencal says on their website that rear travel is 155 in dynamic position and 170 in sensitive.

 


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