Transition Smuggler vs. Ibis Ripmo

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Transition Smuggler vs. Ibis Ripmo
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flag ozarksagd
O+
Posted: Nov 1, 2018 at 8:03 Quote
*Note: I believe it's a fair comparison due to both bikes having nearly identical geometry numbers. I'm not interested in the Sentinel. It feels too long for my tastes.

I'm selling my Evil Insurgent LB and looking get a more efficient 29er with a steeper STA and reduced offset fork for aggressive all-mountain riding, all-day epics, and 4-6 enduro races per year. I'm located in NW Arkansas, so lots of short technical up and down, long flow trails, and medium to big jump lines. I enjoy it all. I'm also on the road for work quite a bit, frequenting the Rocky Mountains and the Appalachia areas. I want a bike I can throw on the truck and ride comfortably in a wide range of mountainous areas (won't be doing any Kansas XC).

While at Outerbike, I demo'd a Transition Sentinel, Scout, and Smuggler, an Evil Following MB, Pivot Firebird 29, and an Ibis Ripmo.

Out of those, the Smuggler and the Ripmo were standouts. Both felt quick, poppy, and efficient. I wasn't able to really push the Smuggler, however, as I was on some loaner SPD's without platforms and didn't feel surefooted enough to hit drops and jumps like I would have liked. When I rode the Ripmo, on the other hand, I had my pedals and took it to the steepest terrain available, both up and down, and it felt really good. Like really good. I hit some loose pebbly corners faster than I ever felt comfortable on my previous bikes.

But a well equipped Ripmo is nearly $8,000, while the Smuggler is $6,000. Worth noting though is I would have to swap the Smuggler's DPS rear for a DPX2 and would probably upgrade the wheelset as well.

I would likely run the 36 on the Smuggler at 150mm.

Does anyone have experience on both bikes? Namely, I'd like to hear people's opinions on any limitations felt with the shorter travel Smuggler or conversely, anyone who feels like the Ripmo is too much bike. Also interesting would be your experience with each bike's quirks and/or things you really appreciate.

Thank you!
flag ozarksagd
O+
Posted: Nov 1, 2018 at 13:17 Quote
Things I like about the Smuggler: Outlaw Orange colorway, price, efficiency, nimbleness, Fox 36, Transition's employees and company culture, SBG, less-is-more approach.

Things I don't like about the Smuggler: Possibly too little travel, minimal rear tire clearance, some specced parts would need to be swapped.

Things I like about the Ripmo: Ability to run 170mm dropper, rear tire clearance, monster truck-ability, love the specced components, climbing ability, planted.

Things I don't like about the Ripmo: Neither colorway has me excited, possibly too much travel, price, Ibis reputation (not that it's bad, just hasn't been my style).


This has been very cathartic, lol. Thanks for coming along on this decision-making journey.
flag smartyiak
Posted: Nov 1, 2018 at 13:52 Quote
I have nothing to offer, but here to learn as I'm in the same boat: Smuggler vs. SB130/Ripmo/Offering.

SB/Ripmo/Offering:
Pro: all the travel I'll ever need
cons: possibly too much travel, pricey

Smuggler:
Pro: price, love Transition as a company.
con: climbing. BUT: does the less travel make it climb about the same as the bigger bikes??? (Clearance isn't a biggie for me as I won't run > 2.3 anyways).
(With the difference in price, I can build an '18 Smuggler frame with Eagle (GX), Fox36 or Pike, DPX, and carbon wheels)
flag ozarksagd
O+
Posted: Nov 2, 2018 at 15:14 Quote
Glad to see someone else is considering a similar set of bikes. Keep me updated on what you go with!
flag gbeaks33
Posted: Nov 3, 2018 at 13:31 Quote
I own a '19 Carbon Smuggler, so I can weigh in a bit. But I don't really think the two are comparable. To me, they're radically different bikes. Sure, geo is somewhat similar. But the ripmo has more travel front and back. A 160mm fork (Ripmo) is going to ride a hell of a lot differently than a 140mm fork (Smuggler). A buddy I ride with has a Ripmo and we ride the same trails differently. He's less skilled at technical features, rocks, line choice, etc, and tends to plow through things whereas I enjoy picking the fun lines and experimenting with slower but more fun technical challenges.

I bought a Smuggler because it's an efficient bike that you can really push to the limits of its 120mm suspension if you want to get rowdy. I ride a mix of BC-xc style trails to really harsh technical steep trails, and sometimes trails with big drops and jumps. I shuttle maybe once a month at best, and typically climb more than 8000-12000m per month on trails. I have no interest in racing, but would be able to take it in an xc or enduro race if I wanted to. I personally think enduro bikes kinda suck at all around riding. Like...REALLY suck. Riding over flat or uphill technical features, rock gardens, etc, is such an energy suck and super inefficient to the point where it's not fun. So I didn't want a bike with more than 130-140mm travel, and really like the idea of shorter travel bikes that ride like they have more suspension.

I had a YT Jeffsy 29er previously, and while that had 140mm of rear travel, I felt I would never even come close to using it all because the frame was so friggin progressive that it was downright harsh to ride aggressively. I didn't realize that until I had started trying other bikes. The curve of the Smuggler is much more linear.

I too will be swapping out the airshaft to run my 36 at 150mm. Not that I necessarily need more travel up front, I'd just prefer the handlebar height to be up a bit more (I'm really tall with long arms and feel that I am angled too far downward on my bars), and I don't want to shell out for a different rise handlebar when I can also gain more fork travel with a longer shaft for like $50.

I swapped out the stock Stan's Arch wheels right away for a set of Flow's on Dt Swiss 350 hubs. I don't really get why they spec'd the smuggler with lightweight wheels given they are advertising it as a huck-it-all bike that can ride everything. I'm >200lbs, and would dent the shit out of those wheels on the first ride.

Only thing I outright dislike on it is the Reverb. My buddy's Ripmo came with a KS Lev 175 and it's a far better product. It's nice that the reverb on my xl frame is 170mm for my tall ass, but they're such a shitty product that I know it'll be sent in for warranty soon enough. I've only had the bike like two months and the return speed is already super slow. The lever is straight garbage and right out of 2013. Feels terrible, needs a ton of force to actuate, and needs to be bled regularly just to function. I'm honestly still so surprised that RS didn't ditch it several years ago, and even more surprised that so many bikes come equipped with it given its long history of being a piece of shit. I'm just waiting for a 200mm dropper to be announced from Fox or OneUp and I'll be buying that as soon as I can.

To sum up. What I like:
-can ride my smuggler anywhere, on any trail. It just makes sense and isn't in one category.
-looks great, pedals great. Best climber I've ever had.
-Transition as a company are great to deal with and have ideals I'm looking for
-partying in the woods!

What I don't like:
-can't run a coil shock. Well, you can, but the curve is so linear I don't think it'd be that great to ride
-Reverbs are the worst
-required a wheel swap at time of purchase
-kinda expensive compared to other brands. Especially if you're a Canadian when the exchange rate is so bad.
flag smartyiak
Posted: Nov 3, 2018 at 18:06 Quote
gbeaks33 wrote:
I own a '19 Carbon Smuggler, so I can weigh in a bit. But I don't really think the two are comparable. To me, they're radically different bikes. Sure, geo is somewhat similar. But the ripmo has more travel front and back. A 160mm fork (Ripmo) is going to ride a hell of a lot differently than a 140mm fork (Smuggler). A buddy I ride with has a Ripmo and we ride the same trails differently. He's less skilled at technical features, rocks, line choice, etc, and tends to plow through things whereas I enjoy picking the fun lines and experimenting with slower but more fun technical challenges.

I bought a Smuggler because it's an efficient bike that you can really push to the limits of its 120mm suspension if you want to get rowdy. I ride a mix of BC-xc style trails to really harsh technical steep trails, and sometimes trails with big drops and jumps. I shuttle maybe once a month at best, and typically climb more than 8000-12000m per month on trails. I have no interest in racing, but would be able to take it in an xc or enduro race if I wanted to. I personally think enduro bikes kinda suck at all around riding. Like...REALLY suck. Riding over flat or uphill technical features, rock gardens, etc, is such an energy suck and super inefficient to the point where it's not fun. So I didn't want a bike with more than 130-140mm travel, and really like the idea of shorter travel bikes that ride like they have more suspension.

I had a YT Jeffsy 29er previously, and while that had 140mm of rear travel, I felt I would never even come close to using it all because the frame was so friggin progressive that it was downright harsh to ride aggressively. I didn't realize that until I had started trying other bikes. The curve of the Smuggler is much more linear.

I too will be swapping out the airshaft to run my 36 at 150mm. Not that I necessarily need more travel up front, I'd just prefer the handlebar height to be up a bit more (I'm really tall with long arms and feel that I am angled too far downward on my bars), and I don't want to shell out for a different rise handlebar when I can also gain more fork travel with a longer shaft for like $50.

I swapped out the stock Stan's Arch wheels right away for a set of Flow's on Dt Swiss 350 hubs. I don't really get why they spec'd the smuggler with lightweight wheels given they are advertising it as a huck-it-all bike that can ride everything. I'm >200lbs, and would dent the shit out of those wheels on the first ride.

Only thing I outright dislike on it is the Reverb. My buddy's Ripmo came with a KS Lev 175 and it's a far better product. It's nice that the reverb on my xl frame is 170mm for my tall ass, but they're such a shitty product that I know it'll be sent in for warranty soon enough. I've only had the bike like two months and the return speed is already super slow. The lever is straight garbage and right out of 2013. Feels terrible, needs a ton of force to actuate, and needs to be bled regularly just to function. I'm honestly still so surprised that RS didn't ditch it several years ago, and even more surprised that so many bikes come equipped with it given its long history of being a piece of shit. I'm just waiting for a 200mm dropper to be announced from Fox or OneUp and I'll be buying that as soon as I can.

To sum up. What I like:
-can ride my smuggler anywhere, on any trail. It just makes sense and isn't in one category.
-looks great, pedals great. Best climber I've ever had.
-Transition as a company are great to deal with and have ideals I'm looking for
-partying in the woods!

What I don't like:
-can't run a coil shock. Well, you can, but the curve is so linear I don't think it'd be that great to ride
-Reverbs are the worst
-required a wheel swap at time of purchase
-kinda expensive compared to other brands. Especially if you're a Canadian when the exchange rate is so bad.

Thank for the lengthy write up!
flag Mntneer
O+
Posted: Nov 4, 2018 at 14:27 Quote
Just throwing this out there...I rode a Canfield Riot and would get that over any bike in that class.
flag ozarksagd
O+
Posted: Nov 5, 2018 at 11:08 Quote
gbeaks33 wrote:
I own a '19 Carbon Smuggler, so I can weigh in a bit. But I don't really think the two are comparable. To me, they're radically different bikes. Sure, geo is somewhat similar. But the ripmo has more travel front and back. A 160mm fork (Ripmo) is going to ride a hell of a lot differently than a 140mm fork (Smuggler). A buddy I ride with has a Ripmo and we ride the same trails differently. He's less skilled at technical features, rocks, line choice, etc, and tends to plow through things whereas I enjoy picking the fun lines and experimenting with slower but more fun technical challenges.

I bought a Smuggler because it's an efficient bike that you can really push to the limits of its 120mm suspension if you want to get rowdy. I ride a mix of BC-xc style trails to really harsh technical steep trails, and sometimes trails with big drops and jumps. I shuttle maybe once a month at best, and typically climb more than 8000-12000m per month on trails. I have no interest in racing, but would be able to take it in an xc or enduro race if I wanted to. I personally think enduro bikes kinda suck at all around riding. Like...REALLY suck. Riding over flat or uphill technical features, rock gardens, etc, is such an energy suck and super inefficient to the point where it's not fun. So I didn't want a bike with more than 130-140mm travel, and really like the idea of shorter travel bikes that ride like they have more suspension.

I had a YT Jeffsy 29er previously, and while that had 140mm of rear travel, I felt I would never even come close to using it all because the frame was so friggin progressive that it was downright harsh to ride aggressively. I didn't realize that until I had started trying other bikes. The curve of the Smuggler is much more linear.

I too will be swapping out the airshaft to run my 36 at 150mm. Not that I necessarily need more travel up front, I'd just prefer the handlebar height to be up a bit more (I'm really tall with long arms and feel that I am angled too far downward on my bars), and I don't want to shell out for a different rise handlebar when I can also gain more fork travel with a longer shaft for like $50.

I swapped out the stock Stan's Arch wheels right away for a set of Flow's on Dt Swiss 350 hubs. I don't really get why they spec'd the smuggler with lightweight wheels given they are advertising it as a huck-it-all bike that can ride everything. I'm >200lbs, and would dent the shit out of those wheels on the first ride.

Only thing I outright dislike on it is the Reverb. My buddy's Ripmo came with a KS Lev 175 and it's a far better product. It's nice that the reverb on my xl frame is 170mm for my tall ass, but they're such a shitty product that I know it'll be sent in for warranty soon enough. I've only had the bike like two months and the return speed is already super slow. The lever is straight garbage and right out of 2013. Feels terrible, needs a ton of force to actuate, and needs to be bled regularly just to function. I'm honestly still so surprised that RS didn't ditch it several years ago, and even more surprised that so many bikes come equipped with it given its long history of being a piece of shit. I'm just waiting for a 200mm dropper to be announced from Fox or OneUp and I'll be buying that as soon as I can.

To sum up. What I like:
-can ride my smuggler anywhere, on any trail. It just makes sense and isn't in one category.
-looks great, pedals great. Best climber I've ever had.
-Transition as a company are great to deal with and have ideals I'm looking for
-partying in the woods!

What I don't like:
-can't run a coil shock. Well, you can, but the curve is so linear I don't think it'd be that great to ride
-Reverbs are the worst
-required a wheel swap at time of purchase
-kinda expensive compared to other brands. Especially if you're a Canadian when the exchange rate is so bad.

Thanks for the detailed insights. It has really helped me frame my own experience on the bike and ground my memories, which is what I'm looking for.

Two questions:

How often (if ever) do you bottom out the rear, and how does it feel? Follow up to that one: are you still running the stock DPS and what are your thoughts on it?

Have you ridden a DW-link bike and can you comment on how the Smuggler climbs in comparison to one? Follow up: do you climb with the suspension wide open or do you flip the switch?
flag gbeaks33
Posted: Nov 5, 2018 at 12:16 Quote
ozarksagd wrote:

Thanks for the detailed insights. It has really helped me frame my own experience on the bike and ground my memories, which is what I'm looking for.

Two questions:

How often (if ever) do you bottom out the rear, and how does it feel? Follow up to that one: are you still running the stock DPS and what are your thoughts on it?

Have you ridden a DW-link bike and can you comment on how the Smuggler climbs in comparison to one? Follow up: do you climb with the suspension wide open or do you flip the switch?

I don't feel like I've ever bottomed out, and the little o right is near the bottom on most rides but I don't think I've actually hit it hard. I'm not sure what volume spacer is in there, and I'm too lazy to open it up and check. There might be a big one which makes it more progressive, given the linear nature of the frame itself. I am still running the stock DPS shock, yes, but I am looking to add a DPX2 or a DVO Topaz over the winter on a xmas or black friday deal if I can find a good price on one. The DPS is fine, but given that this bike can handle the rough stuff I do find the DPS is probably the weakest think. There's a reason why Transition ditched the Fox 34 and changed it to Fox 36 for 2019, so it seems odd that they stuck with the DPS. I didn't have high expectations for the DPS, either, given how I never really got my previous inline RS Monarch to feel that great on my previous bike. However, I don't really send it that hard. I'm not a great downhiller and while I do the odd jump and some 6 foot drops, it's not like I'm out there hitting road gaps every ride. I ride with some guys like that and it makes sense that they have coils or DH2 shocks on their bikes. There was a guy here who put a DPX2 on his Smuggler and prefers it. And there's this dude who put a RS super deluxe on his.

I've never really ridden a coil shock that much but I would be really interested to see what an MRP hazzard with their new progressive springs for linear bikes could do for a short travel bike like this.

Yes, I have ridden DW-linked bikes. I've ridden various Pivot and Evil bikes, as well as the DW split linkage on Devinci bikes as well Honestly, all rear suspension in my opinion feels exactly the same on bikes these days. They're all really good. The only thing that stands out to me is Yeti's rear suspension setup with the infinity switch system. I demo'd a SB5.5 a few years ago and it was the best feeling rear shock I've ever ridden. Amazing traction, incredible performance and a truly unique riding experience. But...I wasn't really into the rest of the bike (nor the price tag). My girlfriend rides a SB4.5 and sometimes I pedal it around the yard for fun and it feels way different than other bikes. Again, just my personal thoughts.

The smuggler climbs great, which is to be expected given the steep seat angle. I'm a pretty good climber and find it charges uphill really well. Combo of eagle gearing and a steep seat tube is great. I find that I can stay seated in the saddle while climbing something steep, vs my Jeffsy I had to get up out of the saddle all the freakin' time. The bible of bike tests said something similar. I'm over 200lbs so I needed something burly enough to withstand some downhill abuse from my weight but also climbs well. I climb with the switch wide open 95% of the time. On a long fire road without any obstacles I may lock it out, but other than that I always run bikes in the open mode. If the bike bobs with the suspension open, it's no good and I don't want it.
flag allmountain17
O+
Posted: Nov 6, 2018 at 9:39 Quote
I am in Fayetteville and absolutely love my ripmo, it is so good on the trails around NWA especially if you are going to race the Arkansas enduro series and go out to the Rockies I would go with the ripmo just get the xt build with the factory fork and it’s somewhere around 6300 dollars and xt is as solid of a groupset as they come
flag ozarksagd
O+
Posted: Nov 6, 2018 at 12:30 Quote
allmountain17 wrote:
I am in Fayetteville and absolutely love my ripmo, it is so good on the trails around NWA especially if you are going to race the Arkansas enduro series and go out to the Rockies I would go with the ripmo just get the xt build with the factory fork and it’s somewhere around 6300 dollars and xt is as solid of a groupset as they come

You wouldn't happen to have a size medium and be down to let me spin a lap somewhere local would you?
flag jcc0042
O+
Posted: Nov 7, 2018 at 11:43 Quote
Just moved to NWA with an Ibis HD4. In my opinion, the Ibis bikes are uniquely good pedallers, particularly when you are sitting down. The suspension almost feels locked out when you are seated. The HD4 is a bit more bike, and I can still put in 20 mile Back 40 days on it no problem.

I have also gone east a lot on the HD4 and raced three east coast enduros on it. It thrived on every type of trail out there: I got 6th out of 80 overall at one very pedally enduro (think of an Arkansas Enduro Series stage lengthened out to 10 minutes), and 7th out of 80 at a very gnarly, steep, and rocky enduro a few weeks later. Based on my experience with the Ripmo, I would likely have performed about the same on it. Maybe a little better at the pedally enduro and a little worse at the gnarly one.

Other things to keep in mind with the Ripmo are: 1) It's not uncommon to get a deal on an Ibis. There seems to be decent markup. 2) The xt build, like someone above mentioned, is all you need. I'd get the fork upgrade, but everything I've heard/read is that the base dpx2 shock is better than the x2 on that bike. The x2 is supposedly a bit too linear for that bike, which I can believe given my experience with the x2 on my HD4.

For the Transition, the question is likely going to be how big you want to go. Do you want to ride Windrock when you are out east? Do you want to ride the gnarlier descents out west? If so, the Smuggler might not be enough bike.
flag allmountain17
O+
Posted: Jan 10, 2019 at 17:53 Quote
ozarksagd wrote:
allmountain17 wrote:
I am in Fayetteville and absolutely love my ripmo, it is so good on the trails around NWA especially if you are going to race the Arkansas enduro series and go out to the Rockies I would go with the ripmo just get the xt build with the factory fork and it’s somewhere around 6300 dollars and xt is as solid of a groupset as they come

You wouldn't happen to have a size medium and be down to let me spin a lap somewhere local would you?

Sorry man mine is a large
flag 50105010
O+
Posted: Feb 2, 2019 at 5:46 Quote
I'm in Fayetteville also. I just got my (large) Ripmo in the mail from fanatik. It climbs great. On the very first ride I cut two minutes off my usual time from parking lot to start of Eggbeater at Mt Kessler.
flag ozarksagd
O+
Posted: Feb 18, 2019 at 10:14 Quote
50105010 wrote:
I'm in Fayetteville also. I just got my (large) Ripmo in the mail from fanatik. It climbs great. On the very first ride I cut two minutes off my usual time from parking lot to start of Eggbeater at Mt Kessler.

Right on. Thanks and good job! Kessler will always occupy a sweet spot in my mind. Love that place.
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