Unhappy Sick Bicycles Customers. BEWARE!

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Unhappy Sick Bicycles Customers. BEWARE!
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Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 5:38 Quote
The only people who can convert a company debt to the director being liable is HMRC or an insolvency practitioner

Misfeasance for example or Malfeasance

now you have to remember they only drill down to this shit when a company is worth a few quid and the sums are large you know that pension fund you used to buy the ferrari and golf course and the chances of getting their pound of flesh are worth the time effort and mostly MONEY

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 5:40 Quote
DrumThumb wrote:
justanotherusername wrote:
I actually can’t believe after months of people like me and Tom banging on and on about how you CAN NOT legally pursue a director personally for he companies debt that people still go on and on and on about it.

As Tom says - unless the ‘debt collector’ is infact just a thug / criminal they will not go near the situation or is that what you are suggesting Heinous? - that someone hires a criminal to use the threat of violence to make them pay up?

I said it specifically as people on here keep saying you can't.

I've had two instances where I have and I got my money back.

Both with small businesses, one was a clothing company, where I did work for them and they said they would pay me when they got more business coming in. Not acceptable as far as I'm concerned, gave them a deadline and said I will get a debt collector to collect it otherwise and gave the name of the collectors I would be using. Money paid up on my deadline. Prior to this it dragged on about 3 months.

Second one was from a restoration job I did on a motorbike, took it to a bodyshop to do the paint, they did a bad job of it and refused to do anything about it. Small claims route. Got my money back. This one took nearly a year of asking and trying got be reasonable, setting out the problems I've had with he job etc etc, until I went the court route.

Both limited companies, just checked. I suspect they folded before it went any further as it's more hassle, they're only a small group pf people, so more work for them and the added cost to go further with any of it, as they knew they were in the wrong and didn't have much of a leg to stand on. Much like this.


I would encourage anyone to do this but be prepared to follow through with it.


Also what the hell are they going to do if they're hassled for money? Go crying to the police that they're being asked for money they owe? Police wouldn't do anything, it's a civil matter.

You chased the company for the money you were owed, (which it had, so it paid you) not the individual directors. If that company had no money/assets you wouldn’t have been paid, and wouldn’t have been able to get the money from anyone that worked for/owned the company, legally.

Totally different to Sick.

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 6:42 Quote
Compositepro wrote:
The only people who can convert a company debt to the director being liable is HMRC or an insolvency practitioner

Misfeasance for example or Malfeasance


That's interesting so the Sick people might still feel the heat if they keep at this?

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 6:44 Quote
sacalobra wrote:
Compositepro wrote:
The only people who can convert a company debt to the director being liable is HMRC or an insolvency practitioner

Misfeasance for example or Malfeasance


That's interesting so the Sick people might still feel the heat if they keep at this?

Do you always read selectively? The rest of what was said indicates the likelihood of that.

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 6:51 Quote
sacalobra wrote:
Compositepro wrote:
The only people who can convert a company debt to the director being liable is HMRC or an insolvency practitioner

Misfeasance for example or Malfeasance


That's interesting so the Sick people might still feel the heat if they keep at this?

Only if someone can prove they did something illegal, such as taking money KNOWING they wouldn’t be able to fulfil (they would argue that they hoped that the preorders would give them the funds to get the frames in/out, or that all the refunds that they did do caused them cash flow issues, leading to them not being able to fulfil.)

They’d have to do that before companies house struck them off the register though IIRC, as you can’t do anything to a company that doesn’t exist.

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 7:02 Quote
BrantleyB wrote:
I do have a question tho, as about 60% of my Sick conversations were through Jordan’s personal account. They were in reference to my order and contained those details. Does that change his liability any?

No. It's still a LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY that owes you money. The "limited liability" part means the liability is limited to the company, not the individuals.


BrantleyB wrote:
Also, I had someone write me a hot check one time with their phone number on it. I called relentlessly and they tried to file a harassment charge. The district attorney laughed at them really hard and explained that they owed me money and that they couldn’t file the charge. Eventually the DA went after them and as stated above, a good check suddenly appeared last second.

Notice the difference here. That's a private citizen, not a LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY.


DrumThumb wrote:
Both with small businesses, one was a clothing company, where I did work for them and they said they would pay me when they got more business coming in. Not acceptable as far as I'm concerned, gave them a deadline and said I will get a debt collector to collect it otherwise and gave the name of the collectors I would be using. Money paid up on my deadline. Prior to this it dragged on about 3 months.

1. The business was still active. Once a business folds, there's no more money in the business, which is why people are talking about forcing Sick to not fold or, incorrectly, talking about holding the directors liable.
2. In Canada, even in a limited liability company, directors are liable for up to six months of an employee's wages. Wages are different. This is a nice thing the government has done to protect workers, as companies are uniquely powerful over their employees, but not so over customers and partners, who have more freedom in choosing to not interact with the company.


DrumThumb wrote:
Second one was from a restoration job I did on a motorbike, took it to a bodyshop to do the paint, they did a bad job of it and refused to do anything about it. Small claims route. Got my money back.

1. The business was still active.
2. You took court action. This isn't even being considered by most folks here. If they did, they may actually get somewhere.


Compositepro wrote:
The only people who can convert a company debt to the director being liable is HMRC or an insolvency practitioner

Misfeasance for example or Malfeasance

now you have to remember they only drill down to this shit when a company is worth a few quid and the sums are large you know that pension fund you used to buy the ferrari and golf course and the chances of getting their pound of flesh are worth the time effort and mostly MONEY

In Canada, you can "pierce the corporate veil" and make directors personally liable if you demonstrate fraud (not as easy as one may think) or negligent misrepresentation. Probably similar elsewhere. It can be done for any scale of company, but it's going to cost a fortune in legal bills, so there had better be a lot at stake.


heinous wrote:
You can have those directors hassled though.

Legal obligation to pay personally? Zero. Likelihood of them paying up after debt collectors turn up to discuss it with them as directors? Improved vastly.

You can do anything! You can go and beat the Sick owners to a bloody pulp! And you can go to jail for it!

As tomhoward379 said, if you somehow found someone to "collect" on the Sick owners, it wouldn't be legal and Sick could press charges against you and / or sue you. Your situation would become a lot worse than having been ripped off.

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 7:31 Quote
Wonder how much jail costs in that shithole.

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 7:41 Quote
There's nothing Sick has done that would send them to jail, no matter how much money you threw at it. Best you could do would be the UK equivalent of civil fraud. You'd have to prove intent, not just reckless incompetence, which would be difficult.

If you succeeded, you would then need to sue them, personally, for the debt.

As you might imagine, it's not worth it.

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 8:14 Quote
BrantleyB wrote:
Wonder how much jail costs in that shithole.

People in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones.

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 8:16 Quote
Member since December...that's two logins. Ironically both critical of the victim.

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 8:16 Quote
Just when we thought this thread couldn't get any less productive, we're about to embark on political finger-pointing Facepalm

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 8:20 Quote
BrantleyB wrote:
Wonder how much jail costs in that shithole.

Why don’t you get on a plane hard man and come and collect your debt and you can find out for yourself then, can’t you?

Don’t forget Jordan’s Dickies.....

Salacobra - advice has been given by myself and others that is sensible and realistic, you continue to spout utter and complete bullshit as is historically characteristic from you and Brantley keeps criticising the UK because he can’t get what he wants legally and ignores the fact plenty of people have told him the USA and Canada work in almost exactly the same way - the realisation has to come about that you left it too late.

I am beginning understand why some of you lot gravitated towards Sick as a brand......

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 8:40 Quote
justanotherusername wrote:
BrantleyB wrote:
Wonder how much jail costs in that shithole.

Why don’t you get on a plane hard man and come and collect your debt and you can find out for yourself then, can’t you?

Don’t forget Jordan’s Dickies.....

Salacobra - advice has been given by myself and others that is sensible and realistic, you continue to spout utter and complete bullshit as is historically characteristic from you and Brantley keeps criticising the UK because he can’t get what he wants legally and ignores the fact plenty of people have told him the USA and Canada work in almost exactly the same way - the realisation has to come about that you left it too late.

I am beginning understand why some of you lot gravitated towards Sick as a brand......

Besides the fact that I have zero desire to visit the UK, I’m spending my travel money to ride BC this year.

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 10:00 Quote
BrantleyB wrote:
justanotherusername wrote:
BrantleyB wrote:
Wonder how much jail costs in that shithole.

Why don’t you get on a plane hard man and come and collect your debt and you can find out for yourself then, can’t you?

Don’t forget Jordan’s Dickies.....

Salacobra - advice has been given by myself and others that is sensible and realistic, you continue to spout utter and complete bullshit as is historically characteristic from you and Brantley keeps criticising the UK because he can’t get what he wants legally and ignores the fact plenty of people have told him the USA and Canada work in almost exactly the same way - the realisation has to come about that you left it too late.

I am beginning understand why some of you lot gravitated towards Sick as a brand......

Besides the fact that I have zero desire to visit the UK, I’m spending my travel money to ride BC this year.


At least you won't get Corona'd in BC

Posted: Feb 14, 2020 at 11:36 Quote
justanotherusername wrote:
BrantleyB wrote:
Wonder how much jail costs in that shithole.

Why don’t you get on a plane hard man and come and collect your debt and you can find out for yourself then, can’t you?

Don’t forget Jordan’s Dickies.....

Salacobra - advice has been given by myself and others that is sensible and realistic, you continue to spout utter and complete bullshit as is historically characteristic from you and Brantley keeps criticising the UK because he can’t get what he wants legally and ignores the fact plenty of people have told him the USA and Canada work in almost exactly the same way - the realisation has to come about that you left it too late.

I am beginning understand why some of you lot gravitated towards Sick as a brand......

Again the abuse along with the other poster earlier this week. Why is the abuse necessary?


 
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