Setting up Grip 2 with Bracketing

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Setting up Grip 2 with Bracketing
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flag EKrum
O+
Posted: Feb 14, 2019 at 7:37 Quote
I am keen to start setting up my 36 Grip 2. With 4 settings that need to be adjusted how have found your ideal settings? Should I start with rebound? High or Low first? Do you use a flow trail to adjust the low speed setting (rebound/compression) and then a rough steep trail for the High?

Also, I have read about bracketing online for setup like this. For those that use bracketing do you start at fully closed (0 clicks) and then go to fully open, or a few clicks from closed and then a few clicks from fully open? Or do you start in the middle?

All my bikes have had super basic setups so I am very new at adjusting all this and appreciate your help.

Eric
flag Lukeo04
Posted: Apr 11, 2019 at 21:44 Quote
EKrum wrote:
I am keen to start setting up my 36 Grip 2. With 4 settings that need to be adjusted how have found your ideal settings? Should I start with rebound? High or Low first? Do you use a flow trail to adjust the low speed setting (rebound/compression) and then a rough steep trail for the High?

Also, I have read about bracketing online for setup like this. For those that use bracketing do you start at fully closed (0 clicks) and then go to fully open, or a few clicks from closed and then a few clicks from fully open? Or do you start in the middle?

All my bikes have had super basic setups so I am very new at adjusting all this and appreciate your help.

Eric

I came off a similar setup, rebound and ctd switch. I run no compression to have it as soft as possible. I keep it from diving via volume reducers. For rebound I have started in the middle then just balanced it with the rear. I balanced it with a bit more of high speed than low speed to keep it poppy but still planted
flag R-M-R
Posted: Apr 11, 2019 at 22:24 Quote
Lukeo04 wrote:
I keep it from diving via volume reducers.

A fork will dive less with higher pressure and no reducers. I've made a chart with some simplified spring curves:

Force curves for linear to highly progressive springs showing how progressivity i.e. ramp leads to less midstroke support.
Figure: Force curves for linear to highly progressive springs, showing how progressivity (i.e. ramp) leads to less midstroke support.

The force/displacement curve of a linear spring (coil) will be a straight line from zero to maximum force, as per the blue line. An air spring with minimal tokens will look somewhat like the orange curve. An air spring with lots of tokens will look somewhat like the grey curve. (These aren't fully accurate, they just give a general representation of linear to progressive curves.)

Imagine an event that generates 60% of maximum force, such as a mild bump while using the front brake. This corresponds to 60% of travel with the linear spring, 77% with the mildly progressive curve, and 87% of travel with the highly progressive curve.

Two examples of when you want to add tokens:

1. Most of your riding doesn't require much travel, especially at high speeds, and there are a few huge impacts along the way, especially at low speeds. ex. Smooth terrain with some big hucks or fast terrain with a few roll-ins that have ugly transitions.
2. You are an extremely strong rider who can handle huge impacts. Most of your impacts are pretty normal, but you often take some huge hits and you're strong enough to not crumple under the force. Your max. bench press is impressive for your weight.

Most riders, most of the time, benefit from more pressure and fewer tokens.
flag Lukeo04
Posted: Apr 12, 2019 at 21:00 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Lukeo04 wrote:
I keep it from diving via volume reducers.

A fork will dive less with higher pressure and no reducers. I've made a chart with some simplified spring curves:

Force curves for linear to highly progressive springs showing how progressivity i.e. ramp leads to less midstroke support.
Figure: Force curves for linear to highly progressive springs, showing how progressivity (i.e. ramp) leads to less midstroke support.

The force/displacement curve of a linear spring (coil) will be a straight line from zero to maximum force, as per the blue line. An air spring with minimal tokens will look somewhat like the orange curve. An air spring with lots of tokens will look somewhat like the grey curve. (These aren't fully accurate, they just give a general representation of linear to progressive curves.)

Imagine an event that generates 60% of maximum force, such as a mild bump while using the front brake. This corresponds to 60% of travel with the linear spring, 77% with the mildly progressive curve, and 87% of travel with the highly progressive curve.

Two examples of when you want to add tokens:

1. Most of your riding doesn't require much travel, especially at high speeds, and there are a few huge impacts along the way, especially at low speeds. ex. Smooth terrain with some big hucks or fast terrain with a few roll-ins that have ugly transitions.
2. You are an extremely strong rider who can handle huge impacts. Most of your impacts are pretty normal, but you often take some huge hits and you're strong enough to not crumple under the force. Your max. bench press is impressive for your weight.

Most riders, most of the time, benefit from more pressure and fewer tokens.

This is somewhat correct but you need to remember that the max force would be higher with more tokens and not the same. If the bottom out resistance was the same it would have way too much sag and screw up geometry
flag R-M-R
Posted: Apr 13, 2019 at 7:44 Quote
Lukeo04 wrote:
This is somewhat correct but you need to remember that the max force would be higher with more tokens and not the same. If the bottom out resistance was the same it would have way too much sag and screw up geometry

That raises the question of how to use volume spacers.

There's no perfect sag point. Even if a bike is "designed" for a certain sag, no suspension design changes characteristics so rapidly near the sag point that it can't accommodate a little more or less.

If you keep the pressure constant and just add spacers, then yes, you're correct; let's call this the "constant sag theory" of set-up. Another theory for suspension set-up is that bottom-out should occur at the maximum force the rider can endure - your "collapse point". There's no sense going beyond this, so a linear or highly exponential spring would both bottom out at the same force, meaning the loaded-with-tokens spring is softer for most of its travel and the sag point is deeper in the travel.

Yet another set-up theory is that the total energy - area under the curve - should be constant. If we look at only spring energy, then the exponential curve is a little lower for most of the chart and ends a fair bit higher. Somewhere between the previous two set-up theories. Unfortunately, this neglects damper energy, which is difficult to incorporate. A rough estimate would require the exponential curve to be higher, putting it close to the constant sag set-up.

My preference is closest to the constant maximum force theory, since that's all your body can handle. I do allow a highly exponential spring to reach higher maximum force as a rough way to account for damper force, but not a great deal higher.
flag Lukeo04
Posted: Apr 14, 2019 at 8:21 Quote
Ok thankyou I never really looked into the theory of suspension but I used to just set up what feels good, thanks for all of the info
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