Steel is Real (Steel Bikes Only Thread).

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Steel is Real (Steel Bikes Only Thread).
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Posted: Jul 2, 2020 at 9:05 Quote
slope wrote:
I feel a group hug coming on!

haha oh go on then, bring it in!

Posted: Jul 2, 2020 at 9:24 Quote
Sorry again; I was out of line....just attempting to pull facts from my knowledge base...

No reason to avoid ya.....No reason to apologize for who I am, and I have no interest in avoiding interaction..... Some people just aren't used to me, and it's not always agreeable.

Ride, anytime you heat steel significantly, you end up with a HAZ. Even if things are still in solidus, and the zone is small...it's still there. Difference is in how the tubes are fit! no biggie!

wcr wrote:
From my basic understanding of welding, I would think tig is easier to use then, let's say, stick or mig. From my experience using a ac/dc stick, on thin metal tubing, is that it's super easy to burn through. Even on low power settings, with proper sized rods. I would think tig would be easier to use... You have way more ability to control/fine tune your setup. Or does skill, with whatever your using, matter more, then whatever rig you have, with skill?

Or would mig be better? Because you can also fine tune things to a tee...

Interested in welding/machining myself, so whenever I can learn something new, be corrected on mistaken thinking, is awesome.

Salute

Yupyupyup! TIG is the easiest solution.....very controlled, clean, and simple.

Of the bunch, stick is probably the best to learn, but most people never put in the proper time, and tend to pull away when things are gettin' crazy. It creates a voltage spike, and ultimately melts away MORE base material, while dropping the electrode deposit rate (amperage)......that's why a lot of people 'blow holes' in stuff. Aside from that, the other bit is travel speed, but that's just a learned thing. There's some other bits like polarity that can help too...but it's also a 'choice' that ya just develop over time. The more ya do, the better ya do!

Posted: Jul 2, 2020 at 9:28 Quote
suravida wrote:
I think my initial cost with a (shitty) wooden jig, cheap non butted tubing and a oxy/propane setup was around a 1000 euros. But to be honest that was just enough to build something rideable. I think you need to double the amount to get something proper and add an extra zero to really start building ;-)
Concerning the wooden jig and fillet brazing: yes I did catch fire a couple of times, and the bike was far from straight in the end. I did however ride it for almost 2 years, so it wasn't that bad.
Brazing vs welding: f*ck up brazing and you clean it all up, file the shit down and start over. F*ck up welding and you may end up melting holes in your tubes. Although I have also seen a reputable builder just weld these shut again and file it flat. (But that would definitely not be my choice....)
That being said, It think brazing well is just as difficult as welding and probably more work.
But in general I know a lot of people that want to start or even have started only to realise how much time and work it is and never really push on.

Glad you did push on Smile

Posted: Jul 2, 2020 at 9:33 Quote
JaiB1 wrote:
Who here builds their own steel frames? How much does it cost to build one as cheap as possible, including tools and stuff?

Far better off getting a 2 week course at the Bicycle Academy; a tutorial in how to build it and then your own frame at the end. Cheap it isn't, but at least you'll experience what it takes. Almost did one a couple of years ago...but then along came baby no.5 (didn't name her Shan though lol).

Posted: Jul 2, 2020 at 9:54 Quote
slope wrote:
I feel a group hug coming on!

Good call.

Posted: Jul 2, 2020 at 10:07 Quote
matther01 wrote:
JaiB1 wrote:
Who here builds their own steel frames? How much does it cost to build one as cheap as possible, including tools and stuff?

Far better off getting a 2 week course at the Bicycle Academy; a tutorial in how to build it and then your own frame at the end. Cheap it isn't, but at least you'll experience what it takes. Almost did one a couple of years ago...but then along came baby no.5 (didn't name her Shan though lol).

Also nearly went for one of these courses but circumstances just haven’t freed the funds up yet. Congrats on baby no.5, you must be mad!lol!

Posted: Jul 2, 2020 at 10:28 Quote
dood wrote:
You guys know that brazing is the shitty equivalent of a solder, right? There's no strength at ALL. Nothing is fused; you might as well lay construction adhesive on plywood and hope for the best....

Guess I have to check my 'bias'.

You say you went to school and are a ticketed welder? Go back and do your research on brazing, then come back and tell us if you want to adjust that above statement.

Posted: Jul 2, 2020 at 10:41 Quote
Dav82 wrote:
matther01 wrote:
JaiB1 wrote:
Who here builds their own steel frames? How much does it cost to build one as cheap as possible, including tools and stuff?

Far better off getting a 2 week course at the Bicycle Academy; a tutorial in how to build it and then your own frame at the end. Cheap it isn't, but at least you'll experience what it takes. Almost did one a couple of years ago...but then along came baby no.5 (didn't name her Shan though lol).

Also nearly went for one of these courses but circumstances just haven’t freed the funds up yet. Congrats on baby no.5, you must be mad!lol!

It's only mtbing that keeps me sane!

Posted: Jul 2, 2020 at 11:12 Quote
I've built 8 frames in the garage with varying amounts of tooling so I think I can provide some real wold data for you.

Materials

In the UK hit Ceeway - https://www.framebuilding.com/ (website is from the dark ages so you have to call them but apparently very helpful.

North America there is Nova, BikeFabSupply and a few others. https://www.cycle-frames.com/ https://www.bikefabsupply.com/

Pick a generic 9-6-9 tubeset and a threaded bb. Buy more than a single frames worth of tubes so you have an extra on hand if you screw one up in the process.

Tools

The very basic you need is a vice, hacksaw, and a file. To hold the tubes in the vise you can make some wooden v-blocks or tube blocks.

Simple L shaped angle from the hardwear store, some threaded road and clamps is the other thing you'll need to complete the rear end of your bike.

Measuring tools that are needed are an adjustable protractor and a bevel gauge. Decent steel ruler is nice.

Welder

Gas brazing with a copper/zinc based rod is more than strong enough for any frame. Brazing alloy gets a bunch of different names so it can be confusing. Brass brazing, bronze baszing, nickle silver, low fuming bronze, gas welding, and others. Basically it's brazing with a flux and an alloy rod that brazes in the 1600F-1750F range. This isn't silver soldering that happens with a silver based filler at the 500F range that is used in lug based frame building.

Why braze? It's less expensive to buy the initial tools, and you have a larger margin of error in learning. Brazing even when done poorly will have a lower HAZ so you won't end effecting the tubes the same. It's faster to learn a simple brazed joint vs tig.

The go to for ages was oxy-acetylene but many have been switching to oxy-propane. This requires a few slightly different items in your torch set up but it's cheaper and safer especially for the home garage builder. The flame is a bit less crisp and not as hot as acetylene but still plenty hot enough.

Process

For the easiest method you'll want a full scale drawing of the frame. Miter templates are easily produced from several online calculators (the Nova site has one). These are you guides to miter to the correct angles and shapes.

No jig method. Build in sub assemblies and this fill force you to get your hand miters tight and accurate. BB to seat tube is assy 1, head tube to down tube is assy 2.

more to come...busy at work.

Posted: Jul 3, 2020 at 8:56 Quote
Thank you mates, very helpful info Salute .

Posted: Jul 23, 2020 at 1:00 Quote
Project12 - Vertigo pinion
Project12 - Vertigo pinion
I can't wait to see this built up.

Posted: Jul 23, 2020 at 2:12 Quote
My DMR Bolt MK2 Long (aka wannabe Cotic) - Super fun bike to ride

Running 27.5 with the frames adapters, 150mm travel up front and 125mm on the rear


Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 14:18 Quote
Going to be making a 27.5" wheeled version of my morph frame in the coming months.

~135mm rear travel, 150 fork, nice short 430mm stays on it. I reckon it will be super cool.

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 18:59 Quote
So a question for y’all. I ordered a frame from Marino at the end of May. They got the design back in mid June. I sent them my approval of their design email and have had radio silence since then. When should I pull the plug on this? I’m trying to be patient as I understand Peru is under a strict lockdown but the lack of emails is very disconcerting.

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 20:20 Quote
gotohe11carolina wrote:
So a question for y’all. I ordered a frame from Marino at the end of May. They got the design back in mid June. I sent them my approval of their design email and have had radio silence since then. When should I pull the plug on this? I’m trying to be patient as I understand Peru is under a strict lockdown but the lack of emails is very disconcerting.

Delivery in 2030 and your custom geo will be trendy again lol

Kidding aside I’d suspect 6mo from when they got up and running again at the beginning of July! Merry Christmas Salute


 
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