Do you think 2x will come back?

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Do you think 2x will come back?
  • Previous Page
Author Message
flag Explodo
Posted: Apr 17, 2019 at 12:09 Quote
I'm on my first 1x bike now. I'm not liking it. I prefer 2x. I'm already yearning for a new bike because I really miss the instant-big-change ability that 2x gives you. I just feel like I've lost some of the flexibility that I always had on a bike. Front derailleurs have always been some of the most reliable pieces on a bike in a 2x setting, so I don't see the point of 1x for a general use mountain bike. I feel the weight savings of dropping the front derailleur are just an excuse unless you're an XC racer.

Actually, in a race environment of any type I can see 1x being superior because you don't need your bike to do anything except excel in the race. It's a purpose-built situation. That is not applicable for a general use mountain bike. For general use, your bike needs to be able to bomb hills, climb, and get you to and from the trail if you're lucky enough to live near the trailhead.

Is my distaste for 1x systems because SRAM GX sort of sucks? I've used XT or XTR for the 25 years leading up to the current bike. I'd hate to think that SRAM is just that bad considering that so many people are using it.

Is the 1x switch a case of bike makers cutting costs and forcing the designs onto us as "good enough"?

Is it a case of a new generation of more bmx-inspired riding in mountain biking? 20 years ago you rode on any trail you could find that was open to bikes. The trails weren't groomed or even maintained often. There are still a ton of riders whose reality is just finding someplace to ride, but that doesn't mean they don't need good bikes.

With even holdout brands like Salsa dropping 2x, the pool of full-suspension bikes I can consider is getting quite small. I only know of a few bikes left that will do 2x. One of them is the Pivot Switchblade, but I'd very strongly bet that when they refresh the frame they'll drop 2x compatibility.
flag Branmuffin
O+
Posted: Apr 17, 2019 at 12:17 Quote
And what is keeping you from going to a 2x system? Does your bike not have a mount for a front derailure?
flag Explodo
Posted: Apr 17, 2019 at 12:19 Quote
Branmuffin wrote:
And what is keeping you from going to a 2x system? Does your bike not have a mount for a front derailure?

No it does not. It seems most of the bikes available now do not have front derailleur mounts.

It was a gift from my wife, so I did not choose to buy a 1x bike. At $7000, I'm stuck with it for a while.
flag Will1848
Posted: Apr 17, 2019 at 12:47 Quote
Is your complaint that you don’t have enough range or that you have trouble shifting fast enough?

The range part I bet could be solved with a smaller front chainring. I think a lot of people run one with too many teeth out of pride.

The shifting speed might leave you SOL. You can definitely shift through your entire cassette pretty quick with a GX shifter, but you are right that you can’t get that I same instant drop you get dropping from the big to little chain ring.
flag Explodo
Posted: Apr 17, 2019 at 13:13 Quote
Will1848 wrote:
Is your complaint that you don’t have enough range or that you have trouble shifting fast enough?

The range part I bet could be solved with a smaller front chainring. I think a lot of people run one with too many teeth out of pride.

The shifting speed might leave you SOL. You can definitely shift through your entire cassette pretty quick with a GX shifter, but you are right that you can’t get that I same instant drop you get dropping from the big to little chain ring.


It's the shifting speed. When you're on a trail with rapid up/down changes, being able to have rapid up/down ratio changes of significant amount is really nice. Rapid changes mean you're off the gas a minimum amount of time. I've definitely got to have longer pedal breaks for shifting with 1x and I feel like it's a step back on actual bike usability.

As for range, 5:1 overall ratio pretty much sucks. Not being able to get up a hill due to not low enough gears is one thing. You can get stronger by working at it or you can accept walking a little. The worse situation is running out of gear on the top end. Knowingly accepting either one of those because your bike has a 1x drivetrain means your bike is holding you back.
flag DonLopez
Posted: Apr 17, 2019 at 18:35 Quote
There are several advantages of 1X. Most important to me is the NW chainring holds the chain better, so less chance of dropping the chain over big bumps. Also, less weight, one less cable and shifter, and no front derailleur to maintain.

Only cons I know of is range of gears and running out of gears at speed. 5:1 is more than enough range for most, but Shimano’s new XTR does have a 2x option. Their 10-51 12-speed cog is more than I need. Many new MTBs won’t fit a chainring bigger than 34t, so that is a problem if you are riding 30+ mph (only happens downhill and smooth roads for me). I switched from a 32t NW chainring to 36t NW on my RM Altitude and have no problem with climbs.

My 1999 RM Element Race that is 3x9 (44/32/22x11-32). There are not really 27 gears of range due to overlap, but I think it is slightly more than 5:1. I stay in the 32 on trails and 44 on roads; 22 is too low and never gets used. 44 front and 11 rear does not wind out at 30 mph, but my Altitude with 36/11 does (wish I had a 10 sometimes).

My perfect MTB setup would be a 36t chainring with 11-speed 10-45 XTR cassette, but I heard Shimano stopped making that size in 11-speed. For a gravel bike, 40t or 42t x 10-51 12-speed would be sweet. XTR and Saint shifters allow shifting multiple gears up and down and are well worth the extra cost in my opinion. I also hate SRAM shifters.
flag absoluteczech
Posted: Apr 17, 2019 at 19:29 Quote
Keep at it. Imo you’ll get use to it. It will take time but eventually you’ll get use to it. If you look at a ratio calculator your 47 or 50t will be pretty close to your 2x setup. If you still struggle try putting a 30 up front be the 32 or even 28 if you really struggle
flag mtbikeaddict
Posted: Apr 17, 2019 at 21:09 Quote
Honestly I'm with you a bit on this. Seems like all bikes nowadays are 1x only. I've only tried 1x once, in a quick parking lot test, so it was nice, but I was just shifting through the gears because I wanted to try it out, not because I needed to. I have 3x, and have ridden 2x a couple of times. Honestly the 3x obviously has lots of range/variety... it's fine on the hybrid; I biked 150 miles through mostly hilly terrain and pushed hit 40mph at one point... for that it's great, but on my mtb I find a lot of overlap and the big ring eats my pants and leg if it's not in use, so I try to keep it in 3 as much as possible... simplification would help there. The 1x was as simple as it gets, but I agree with the big jump aspect and could see that posing problem on the trail. I do think a 2x would be nice happy middle ground... decently big ring for virtually all riding (more top speed, accustomed to it, and I've got the leg power), with the tiny ring for a quick drop when stuff gets steep up.
So... do I think it'll come back? Most likely not. Would I like it to? Yes. Hope I can find a good used bike a few years old.
flag thesmokingman
Posted: Apr 17, 2019 at 21:30 Quote
Explodo wrote:
Will1848 wrote:
Is your complaint that you don’t have enough range or that you have trouble shifting fast enough?

The range part I bet could be solved with a smaller front chainring. I think a lot of people run one with too many teeth out of pride.

The shifting speed might leave you SOL. You can definitely shift through your entire cassette pretty quick with a GX shifter, but you are right that you can’t get that I same instant drop you get dropping from the big to little chain ring.


It's the shifting speed. When you're on a trail with rapid up/down changes, being able to have rapid up/down ratio changes of significant amount is really nice. Rapid changes mean you're off the gas a minimum amount of time. I've definitely got to have longer pedal breaks for shifting with 1x and I feel like it's a step back on actual bike usability.

As for range, 5:1 overall ratio pretty much sucks. Not being able to get up a hill due to not low enough gears is one thing. You can get stronger by working at it or you can accept walking a little. The worse situation is running out of gear on the top end. Knowingly accepting either one of those because your bike has a 1x drivetrain means your bike is holding you back.

I never found that shifting the front ring was faster. Hell you always are put in the wrong gear and have to again shift the rear to get yourself into the right ratio. Thus I don't concur with speed aspect of your complaint. 2x take longer to get into gear or the same because jumping from 36t to 22t puts the rider into a whole different ball park ratio wise. And as far as the lack of range you have, add more range?
flag lewiscraik
O+ FL
Posted: Apr 18, 2019 at 4:07 Quote
I understand that 2x is still popular in Europe/Germany.

Personally I have never looked back after shifting to 1x, but that is Shimano.
flag Explodo
Posted: Apr 18, 2019 at 7:41 Quote
absoluteczech wrote:
Keep at it. Imo you’ll get use to it. It will take time but eventually you’ll get use to it. If you look at a ratio calculator your 47 or 50t will be pretty close to your 2x setup. If you still struggle try putting a 30 up front be the 32 or even 28 if you really struggle

My 2x setup had a 5.72:1 range, and there were times I wished that was more. I was limited in the front to using a 36-tooth ring, so I couldn't go higher without using a cassette with less than 11 teeth. I think that a 6:1 range is a reasonable goal as long as the ratio is big enough at the top.


thesmokingman wrote:
I never found that shifting the front ring was faster. Hell you always are put in the wrong gear and have to again shift the rear to get yourself into the right ratio. Thus I don't concur with speed aspect of your complaint. 2x take longer to get into gear or the same because jumping from 36t to 22t puts the rider into a whole different ball park ratio wise. And as far as the lack of range you have, add more range?

I can't speak to what SRAM front derailleurs are like, but my XT front derailleur was always a nice instant shift with no drama. Even shifting front and rear at the same time was no drama at all, so I've never understood the contingent of people who complain about front derailleurs being bad. Maybe their derailleur was misadjusted? Dropping ratio a lot quickly was the whole point of front derailleur shifting.


I really hope that bike makers realize that 2x is something that shouldn't be dropped. Every frame redesign I've seen of late has been dropping 2x compatibility, if it even had it before.
flag reverend27
Posted: Apr 18, 2019 at 7:43 Quote
Di2 syncro shift. I'm running it on my recluse.

36-26 up front xx1 10-42 rear had to buy a goatlink but I am very happy with my setup.

I use all my range on my local trails. (586%)

Spinning out for some is not a big deal but I often ride 50 miles+ 25 of it gravel roading to and from the trailhead.
flag DonLopez
Posted: Apr 18, 2019 at 7:49 Quote
Shimano does realize this and makes 2x12 XTR. 10-45 or 10-51 cassettes. Like I said, 1x11 is more than I need as long as the cassette is 10-42+.
flag Explodo
Posted: Apr 18, 2019 at 7:52 Quote
DonLopez wrote:
Shimano does realize this and makes 2x12 XTR. 10-45 or 10-51 cassettes. Like I said, 1x11 is more than I need as long as the cassette is 10-42+.

Yes, it's great that Shimano makes 2x setups still. I applaud them for that. Frame makers, however, seem to be dropping 2x compatibility like crazy. If you can't fit it, then it doesn't matter if someone is making it.
flag mtbikeaddict
Posted: Apr 18, 2019 at 8:47 Quote
Explodo wrote:
DonLopez wrote:
Shimano does realize this and makes 2x12 XTR. 10-45 or 10-51 cassettes. Like I said, 1x11 is more than I need as long as the cassette is 10-42+.

Yes, it's great that Shimano makes 2x setups still. I applaud them for that. Frame makers, however, seem to be dropping 2x compatibility like crazy. If you can't fit it, then it doesn't matter if someone is making it.
  • Previous Page

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.038828
Mobile Version of Website