MegNeg

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MegNeg
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Posted: May 12, 2021 at 0:24 Quote
Heeven wrote:
You can never just create support, you're always more just shifting it around.

Raising the spring rate (coil stiffness or air pressure) and/or increasing the compression damping does precisely that: increases support at all positions and all velocities.

Posted: May 12, 2021 at 13:42 Quote
Heeven wrote:
lilaubert wrote:
Hi, looking some advise with my megneg on my privateer 161. I am running 2 bands and 2 tokens but I almost bottom out on big hits and looking for more support in middle stroke. I have seen people removing all tokens in positive chamber but for me I am guessing I will bottom out even more without tokens right? I am going to do some testing later today and wondering where to start, any advise? Cheers
.
You can never just create support, you're always more just shifting it around. So if you were to remove the tokens from the positive chamber and run higher pressure it would give you more mid-stroke support but it would be taking some away from bottom out resistance. I've never ridden a privateer and I don't know you're body type, but on my 2017 transition Patrol I was running no tokens in the positive chamber and no bands in the negative and I'm 5'11 170 lb and it felt perfect. Transitions giddy up link is extremely active, the larger negative air chamber made it super supple off the top with great Small bump compliance and then with no tokens I had great mid stroke support for climbing and sprinting out of the saddle and then I ran high enough pressure that I would rarely find the bottom. I noticed it helped running my fork with the high speed compression a little past halfway more towards fully damped

Sounds good thanks man, when you say no tokens in positive you mean no gnar token too right?

Posted: May 17, 2021 at 17:14 Quote
Hi, I’ve had a good look through the thread, I ride a 2020 enduro I weigh 99kg (218lbs) with kit on, I’ve been running the megneg with no bands and no tokens in at 300psi, 30% sag equates to 16mm of stroke length over the RockShox 18mm Indicator. (This is something I saw R-M-R highlight about the enduros real sag vs RockShox 30% due to the bikes linkage) this actually helped massively with the bikes axle path helping through rough stuff and it doesn’t feel to get caught up as much as it did at the 30% sag mark on the shock 18mm. But what I’ve started to notice is in rough rocks and tree rooted sections a harsh feeling from the shock, I’ve no rebound damping on so I know the shocks not packing, I’m going to try adding a band or two to try and take the edge off the mid support, but I’m just wondering wether it might be worth adding a token back into the positive? As I’m currently using full travel on most rides but I never notice the bottom outs, but I’m wondering with adding a band or two I may get to the end of the stroke a little easier. I’m also riding fort William this weekend on it so this is another reason I want to try remove some harshness in the rough stuff but also concerned about bottom out with added bands.

Posted: May 17, 2021 at 17:25 Quote
Benclark wrote:
this actually helped massively with the bikes axle path helping through rough stuff and it doesn’t feel to get caught up as much as it did at the 30% sag mark on the shock 18mm.

Benclarck,

I'm sure what you felt was real, but what you felt wasn't axle path. As you probably understand, the axle path cannot be changed, but with the bike sitting higher in the travel, you were using a part of the path that's slightly more rearward. So, the question is how much more rearward, and the answer is 0.36°. You did not feel 0.36°; it must've been something else.

Instead of reducing the negative volume (adding bands), you could try running a little more sag (less pressure) and reducing the positive volume (adding reducers).

If you want to maintain the ride height, then yes, your only solution will be to reduce the negative volume, lower the pressure, and reduce the positive volume.

It's possible the harshness is related to the compression damping or even dry internals.

Posted: May 18, 2021 at 0:38 Quote
Benclarck,

I'm sure what you felt was real, but what you felt wasn't axle path. As you probably understand, the axle path, cannot be changed, but with the bike sitting higher in the travel, you were using a part of the path that's slightly more rearward. So, the question is how much more rearward, and the answer is 0.36°. You did not feel 0.36°; it must've been something else.

Instead of reducing the negative volume (adding bands), you could try running a little more sag (less pressure) and reducing the positive volume (adding reducers).

If you want to maintain the ride height, then yes, your only solution will be to reduce the negative volume, lower the pressure, and reduce the positive volume.

It's possible the harshness is related to the compression damping or even dry dry internals.[/Quote]



Okay, I tested it back to back with different sags (leaving all bands and spacers the same for this) I did prefer the higher ride height that I’m currently running and on more bike parky stuff this set up works great there’s just too much feed back through my feet.

I’m definitely going to try both options what you have suggested.

The shock is the standard shock that comes with the bike, as far as I’m aware specialized are pretty light on compression tuning ( I could be wrong ) also from experience with running the shock at the same sag point with out the megneg this harshness wasn’t present in the same situations leading me to think the added mid support from the megneg with 0 bands is the reasoning behind this, as I’ve also seen someone with the same issue higher up the thread who added 2 bands and it stopped this issue

Posted: May 18, 2021 at 4:53 Quote
Benclark wrote:
Benclarck,

I'm sure what you felt was real, but what you felt wasn't axle path. As you probably understand, the axle path, cannot be changed, but with the bike sitting higher in the travel, you were using a part of the path that's slightly more rearward. So, the question is how much more rearward, and the answer is 0.36°. You did not feel 0.36°; it must've been something else.

Instead of reducing the negative volume (adding bands), you could try running a little more sag (less pressure) and reducing the positive volume (adding reducers).

If you want to maintain the ride height, then yes, your only solution will be to reduce the negative volume, lower the pressure, and reduce the positive volume.

It's possible the harshness is related to the compression damping or even dry dry internals.



Okay, I tested it back to back with different sags (leaving all bands and spacers the same for this) I did prefer the higher ride height that I’m currently running and on more bike parky stuff this set up works great there’s just too much feed back through my feet.

I’m definitely going to try both options what you have suggested.

The shock is the standard shock that comes with the bike, as far as I’m aware specialized are pretty light on compression tuning ( I could be wrong ) also from experience with running the shock at the same sag point with out the megneg this harshness wasn’t present in the same situations leading me to think the added mid support from the megneg with 0 bands is the reasoning behind this, as I’ve also seen someone with the same issue higher up the thread who added 2 bands and it stopped this issue[/Quote]

I also installed a MegNeg in my Enduro 2020. Tried different things but I settled with 4 bands no tokens. Is almost as plush as before and better mid support. 30% SAG. Now I'm running coil though and it feels so good.

Posted: May 18, 2021 at 7:27 Quote
I also installed a MegNeg in my Enduro 2020. Tried different things but I settled with 4 bands no tokens. Is almost as plush as before and better mid support. 30% SAG. Now I'm running coil though and it feels so good.[/Quote]


I think maybe the direction I’ll go first is adding more bands keeping the sag at what it’s at as I like the ride height, I think I’ll have to add a token to the positive if I add bands to the negative given I use full travel often especially on the trails I like to ride! I found the shock before the megneg was added was supple off the top but lacked mid stroke support, and then ramped up quite harshly This had the 2.5 gnar dog and an extra volume spacer in I was also using full travel with this set up. so I think closing the gap back to original with bands And adding the single token to the Positive might be a good way to go! Especially now knowing the opposite end of the scale with no bands and no tokens! I’ll report back after the weekend at fort William with what I’ve found! I’d love a coil but I don’t want to spend the money!

Posted: Jun 5, 2021 at 11:41 Quote
Hello again, I have an update on my experience with the Megneg and some questions. Just to remind, I ride a 2018 commencal meta am v4.2 and I am 145 pounds with my gear on. I ride fast, rocky terrain, so I can definitely feel my suspension and get feedback from it. When I installed the Megneg, I started with 2 negative bands and 2 positive tokens, and inflated the shock to 30% sag. This felt pretty good, but I decided to remove a band. With 1 negative band and 2 positive tokens (shock inflated to 30% sag) the bike felt bad, too much negative spring so I decided to add a band back in. I also made some diy tire inserts which allowed me to drop my tire pressure a bit. I went riding with 2 bands, 2 tokens, 24 psi in the rear tire, and 23 in the front tire (shock inflated to 30% sag). This felt amazing! it was so supple and soaked up most of the small to medium hits. I went for a couple rides and the bike continued to feel great. Today I didn't change any suspension settings and inflated my tires to the same pressure as before (23 front, 24 rear), and rode at the same trails I had been riding previously. The bike didn't feel very good, definitely not as good as before. The best way for me to describe it is it felt like I was slamming into every rock and hole, and I was hitting everything so hard. The tires or suspension didn't seem to take the edge off at all. I didn't change anything from my previous rides, so I am very confused. Any feedback would be appreciated. Also, could my tire pressure be too high, considering I am a light 145 pounds? Any recommendations on Megneg settings? I am considering removing a volume token as well.

Thanks.

Posted: Jun 6, 2021 at 17:42 Quote
I had that same version of Meta and am now on a 21 meta with a megneg. I weigh 155lbs and ride dh’y style trails. Steep,rough. The best setting I found has been with 3 bands in the negetive,1 volume reducer in positive. That is on both bikes. Any less bands and would run into what you are describing, would get harsh. I could possibly go to another positive volume reducer but feels good so haven’t tried it yet and don’t feel I really need to. I am running 182 psi/30% sag. The one difference I may have over you is I have a LL tune on my super deluxe ultimate. Really like it over the MM tune on my 2019 meta.

For your weight, and if you have the MM tune, I think I would try 3-4 bands and dropping 1 volume reducer. I think with the 2 bands you are a little too soft off the top, and then ramping up too fast by reducing your positive chamber with the 2 volume reducers.

Posted: Jun 6, 2021 at 19:18 Quote
oldnw wrote:
I had that same version of Meta and am now on a 21 meta with a megneg. I weigh 155lbs and ride dh’y style trails. Steep,rough. The best setting I found has been with 3 bands in the negetive,1 volume reducer in positive. That is on both bikes. Any less bands and would run into what you are describing, would get harsh. I could possibly go to another positive volume reducer but feels good so haven’t tried it yet and don’t feel I really need to. I am running 182 psi/30% sag. The one difference I may have over you is I have a LL tune on my super deluxe ultimate. Really like it over the MM tune on my 2019 meta.

For your weight, and if you have the MM tune, I think I would try 3-4 bands and dropping 1 volume reducer. I think with the 2 bands you are a little too soft off the top, and then ramping up too fast by reducing your positive chamber with the 2 volume reducers.

Okay, I am riding tomorrow so I think I might try removing a volume token first, (so I will be at 2 bands 1 token) and see how it feels. Also what tire pressures are you running? Thanks for your response.

Posted: Jun 6, 2021 at 19:37 Quote
I run 17 front, 18 rear. Maxxis 2.5 DHF Exo+ w/cushcore pro front and rear. The 17/18 sounds pretty low but I think it depends on the gauge you have. The pressures I run shouldn't mean much to you unless you have the same gauge. I use a gauge called accu-gage. 0-30 psi range. That tire setup with the exo+ casing and cushcore is super compliant. I know it has a lot to do with how plush my bike feels over small stuff.

Posted: Jun 6, 2021 at 20:22 Quote
My bike mainly seems to feel harsh in the rear, and I am running an onza aquilla with a DH casing so I definitely think I can drop my pressure from 24 psi. I also have a home made insert in that tire so I think I'll be safe. Thanks for the info. I'll report back on my ride tomorrow.

Posted: Jun 7, 2021 at 5:45 Quote
oldnw wrote:
I run 17 front, 18 rear. Maxxis 2.5 DHF Exo+ w/cushcore pro front and rear. The 17/18 sounds pretty low but I think it depends on the gauge you have. The pressures I run shouldn't mean much to you unless you have the same gauge. I use a gauge called accu-gage. 0-30 psi range. That tire setup with the exo+ casing and cushcore is super compliant. I know it has a lot to do with how plush my bike feels over small stuff.

Doesn't sound unreasonable to me......your rim width can make a difference too. I run 35mm inner width rims and I find they allow me to run lower pressures.

Posted: Jun 7, 2021 at 12:07 Quote
Today on my ride I had 2 negative bands and 1 positive token. I also lowered my tire pressures to 22 psi front and 23 psi rear. The bike felt better than my previous ride, but not as good as my best rides with the Megneg. Today I found that the rear mainly seems to feel harsh on braking bumps and medium sized rocks, but especially on braking bumps. Has anyone had a similar experience and solved it? I think I'll try 3 bands 1 spacer next ride.

Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 17:57 Quote
just wondering if anyone can help with some settings.. I have a 2021 Norco Sight, just installed a megneg and it seems a bit harsh in mid travel. I am 175 lbs with gear, I have 230psi in rear shock with 2 bands in and 1 token. I used all but about 2mm of travel in the rear off the biggest drops that I ride. Any suggestions for changing this setup in the right direction? I ride technical rocky terrain mostly. Just looking for some input. thanks in advance


 
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