MegNeg

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MegNeg
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Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 18:18 Quote
I don't want to colour your testing too much, but my experience with the MegNeg on the Sight is below. I'm about 5 lbs lighter than you. I ended up preferring the regular air can to the MegNeg, but am now running a coil shock, which I like better than both.

DMal wrote:
My MegNeg experiment has come to an end. I am back on the regular air can and like it much better. But I am glad I tried out the MegNeg. Being able to manipulate the positive and negative volumes so easily allowed me to learn a lot.

My weight: 77 kg/170 lbs.
Location: North Vancouver, BC (trails tend to be slower, steeper, more on the technical side)
Bike: Norco Sight 2020
Shock: Super Deluxe Select+
Fork: Zeb Ultimate 160, 68 psi with 1 token, HSC 3-4 clicks from closed, LSC and rebound by feel

Initial setup: regular air can, 197 psi (31% sag) 2 positive tokens

First MegNeg setup: 250 psi (31% sag), 1 positive token, 2 negative bands
Impressions: way too firm, dynamic ride height too high, felt like I was being pitched forward, tons of support while pumping on flatter trails.

Next MegNeg setup: 235 psi (35% sag), 1 positive token, 4 negative bands
With this setup, I was trying to see if, by reducing negative volume, I could run a lower air pressure to reduce what I felt was an excessive spring rate past the sag point, while avoiding too much sag by making the negative spring smaller.
Impressions: similar to the first setup but less harsh, with lots of support. Felt okay while smashing down a rough, fast trail, but not compliant enough at lower speeds. Felt almost like the shock was overdamped in HSC. I figured out that raising the bars 5 mm was necessary to balance the higher rear dynamic ride height.

Final MegNeg setup: 235 psi (35% sag), 0 positive tokens, 4 negative bands
I took out the final remaining positive token to see if some of that harshness I was feeling was due to end of stroke ramp. This setup felt better when going slightly slower, but that harsh, spikey feeling remained. I also did feel a couple bottom-outs, but would probably choose this setup if sticking with the MegNeg.

After getting to the point where the MegNeg was as un-MegNeg as possible, things were feeling better but I still felt like the bike was riding too high, and it felt a bit unstable. The higher ride height was rattling my confidence on steeper, slower terrain and in corners.

Going back to the smaller air can, the bike feels settled again. I can push it into corners and feel like it’s more glued. I found I needed to drop by bars back down again, which also feels better in terms of being able to load up the front wheel. The stock air can and lower pressure is definitely less supportive, and if I were riding high-speed trails or bike park, the MegNeg may have stood a better chance of working for me.

But long of the short, I found the bike hard to ride with the MegNeg, and now it has gone back to being fun. I felt like I gave the MegNeg a fair chance, and experimented with with a few setups, but I just like the stock can better.

I had similar impressions going from a Lyrik B1 air shaft to the C1, which reduces the influence of the negative spring. I found that the slightly softer midstroke made the fork ride smoother overall, whereas the B1 sort of sags then firms up substantially. So maybe I just like a more compliant midstroke.

I think the choice to run the MegNeg comes down to preference, the bike you ride and your local terrain. But it’s not a slam dunk upgrade in all cases.

Posted: Jun 11, 2021 at 4:38 Quote
thanks for the input! I will try 4 bands and see how it works for me. That's what I was thinking of trying but I've been doing so much reading on this that it really depends on the how someone posts exactly what the feedback from the shock is on the exact same bike. It sounds (from what you posted) like I'm getting the same feel you did. Thanks again

Posted: Jun 11, 2021 at 19:12 Quote
Hi sorry for all the questions but I have another question about the Megneg. I know that with rear shocks with regular air cans, it's good to unscrew the air can every so often to release built up negative pressure, similar to the zip tire trick with forks. Since the negative spring is so large on the Megneg, could the negative pressure build up faster so I would have to release it more often? Thanks.

Posted: Jun 13, 2021 at 13:42 Quote
coleboyb wrote:
thanks for the input! I will try 4 bands and see how it works for me. That's what I was thinking of trying but I've been doing so much reading on this that it really depends on the how someone posts exactly what the feedback from the shock is on the exact same bike. It sounds (from what you posted) like I'm getting the same feel you did. Thanks again

The Megneg revolutionised how the Sight rode for me. I'm 72kg, and to stop the shock blowing through the travel I had to run 20% sag or less, which ruined my small bump.

As soon as I got the megneg I went to 2 bands, 1 token, and 30% sag, and it was so prime. I'm now on 1 band, and no tokens, 30% sag, which feels great. I occasionally get a little harshness, but it's in very isolated situations, and I'll take that added support in nearly all conditions over less support and a softer set-up. Are you sure what you're feeling is down to the higher pressure? I might just be a more aggressive rider, and therefore want more support I suppose....

If you go back through the posts, you will also find my post.

Posted: Jun 13, 2021 at 13:46 Quote
DMal wrote:
I ended up preferring the regular air can to the MegNeg, but am now running a coil shock, which I like better than both.

Please can you expand on this a bit more? What characteristics did you like/dislike between all three? What were the differences between them? Thanks!

Posted: Jun 13, 2021 at 19:36 Quote
samboa wrote:
DMal wrote:
I ended up preferring the regular air can to the MegNeg, but am now running a coil shock, which I like better than both.

Please can you expand on this a bit more? What characteristics did you like/dislike between all three? What were the differences between them? Thanks!

At the settings I tried, I found the MegNeg felt harsh in the mid-stroke, but I was already running a good amount of sag (~35%). In spite of the large amount of sag, the dynamic ride height felt high, pushing me forward on steeper sections of trail. I tried raising my bars, which helped, but I felt less confident with this setup. The bike felt tall and unsettled.

The regular air can felt like it sat into its travel more, making the bike feel more comfortable on steeps. The mid-stroke was also more active at the expense of some support. The regular can felt smoother for most trail riding, especially consecutive medium-sized hits. I was running pressures close to what the Norco setup guide was suggesting and didn’t find I was having harsh bottom-outs. I preferred 2 tokens to 2.5 or 3.

The coil combines support with smoothness. I’m running less sag (~25%) so there is a feeling of more support early in the stroke, but it still feels sensitive to small bumps. Then the bike feels smooth and composed on medium hits, and I only feel bottom-out on the flattest of flat landings, like drops you look at and think you shouldn’t do.

I’ve been trying to figure out why I like the coil but didn’t like the MegNeg. My theory is that the MegNeg gives coil-like support in the early stroke, reducing the air spring curve ‘hammock’, but then ramps up like an air shock in the second half of the stroke, giving quite a high spring rate. I could see the MegNeg working well on a very linear bike, but even for a moderately (18%) progressive bike like the Sight, I felt like the spring rate deeper in the stroke was too much.

Posted: Jun 13, 2021 at 23:45 Quote
Thanks Samboa, I have changed my settings to 4 bands and 1 token to try next. I ride alot of technical terrain and just found it was a bit harsh.. I guess I'll know in the next couple of days when I get to go out again.this will be my first adjustments so I just started the tuning process. I did read all the posts in this thread several times so I could try and understand what and how I was changing things, but it's always easier when someone has the same bike and input. I will keep you posted as I appreciate the input

Posted: Jun 14, 2021 at 1:09 Quote
From my experience harshness comes mostly from an overdamped HSC or HSR.
I tried a lot of band/token combinations and made finally the best results on my bronson 3 with 0 bands and GNAR Dog token with a re-shimmed HSC and HSR. It took a little bit of time to find the "perfect" HSC and HSR shimstack, but now it feels like a mini-DH Bike.

Posted: Jun 14, 2021 at 2:21 Quote
coleboyb wrote:
Thanks Samboa, I have changed my settings to 4 bands and 1 token to try next. I ride alot of technical terrain and just found it was a bit harsh.. I guess I'll know in the next couple of days when I get to go out again.this will be my first adjustments so I just started the tuning process. I did read all the posts in this thread several times so I could try and understand what and how I was changing things, but it's always easier when someone has the same bike and input. I will keep you posted as I appreciate the input

Yeah totally understand bud, it can be a bit of a minefield!

If by technical terrain you mean slow speed, then I can understand why you might feel "harshness". A friend of mine loved North shore jank, so runs their suspension quite soft, but with a tonne of tokens. They want the supple slow speed stuff, and then the bottom out ramp up when they do some disgusting drop to flat!

I grew up riding/racing DH so that's not my style of riding at all, consequently, that set-up wouldn't work for me. I'd end up blowing through the travel the entire time and having a super harsh ramp up.

Good luck with the experimenting! I'd recommend going on a few rides with each set-up, so you can get a feel of it. There might be sections where your suspension suddenly feels awesome, and it can help direct you set up wise.

Posted: Jun 14, 2021 at 2:26 Quote
Dice8 wrote:
From my experience harshness comes mostly from an overdamped HSC or HSR.
I tried a lot of band/token combinations and made finally the best results on my bronson 3 with 0 bands and GNAR Dog token with a re-shimmed HSC and HSR. It took a little bit of time to find the "perfect" HSC and HSR shimstack, but now it feels like a mini-DH Bike.

Interesting!

I was under the impression the Super Deluxe Select+'s were quite low on compression damping for the Sight, as I was recommended to go for the Super Deluxe Ultimate as it had more damping. Not sure how legit that was though!

Posted: Jun 14, 2021 at 2:46 Quote
thanks Samboa, I will try the 4 bands then go to 0 if that doesn't feel better. I do feel the harshness on slow rocky terrain, on the faster stuff I don't notice it as much. I'm probably just overthinking everything.. lol

Posted: Jun 20, 2021 at 10:04 Quote
got out for a few rides.. it definitely feels better but it feels like I'm riding too high in the travel, not sitting in the bike. I have 230psi in shock, 1 positive token, 4 bands and almost bottom out (1or 2 mm left) on big hits.Sag is at about 32%.
Any suggestions?

Posted: Jun 20, 2021 at 10:26 Quote
coleboyb wrote:
got out for a few rides.. it definitely feels better but it feels like I'm riding too high in the travel, not sitting in the bike. I have 230psi in shock, 1 positive token, 4 bands and almost bottom out (1or 2 mm left) on big hits.Sag is at about 32%.
Any suggestions?

Things to try:
- take out the final positive token
- run lower pressure

After you find your best MegNeg setup, it’s worth going back to the old air can for a ride just to confirm your setup going forward

Posted: Jun 20, 2021 at 10:30 Quote
DMal - I've read your posts and you have almost taken the words out of my mouth on how you describe it.. I'd like to give it a good try though. If I take the last token out and run lower pressure won't I bottom out of I'm close now?

Posted: Jun 20, 2021 at 11:03 Quote
coleboyb wrote:
DMal - I've read your posts and you have almost taken the words out of my mouth on how you describe it.. I'd like to give it a good try though. If I take the last token out and run lower pressure won't I bottom out of I'm close now?

Yeah, for sure. I am not trying to talk you out of the MegNeg by any means! I am simply saying that returning to your previous best setup is a good way to confirm that you’ve actually improved things.

But yeah, less air or fewer positive tokens are really all you can do. Although the positive tokens mostly impact the end of the travel, in my experience, they do initiate ramping at a point in the travel that can feel like mid-stroke.

Some people never want to use full travel. I am more of the opinion that you should bottom out, as long as it doesn’t feel like a hard clunk.


 
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