2013 Range really outdated?

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2013 Range really outdated?
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Posted: Sep 10, 2019 at 17:25 Quote
hey guys,

I've been rocking my Norco Range Killer B-1 2013 for a few years now.. I love the bike, but I feel its not really efficient while climbing.

Is this bike really outdated? (Where I live, there are no demo bikes of no brands) so it makes it really hard to compare.

Recently, I was offered a chance to buy the frame (frame only) of a 2018 Santa cruz bronson C 27.. for really cheap (brand new)
would it really make a big difference? or is it just the hype of "new tech" and newer models?

Please, any comments would be super helpful

Posted: Sep 10, 2019 at 22:05 Quote
The Range has always had high pedaling anti-squat - i.e. it's not squishy. Actually a little too high in the era of multiple chainrings, such that it would jack (rise up) when using the little ring, which is definitely not efficient. Good in the middle ring, though.

The real problem is the geometry. As is typical of the era, the reach is short, the seat-tube is slack, and the chainstays are short. The rider is pitched way back on climbs, so you have to crunch low and scoot forward. Sitting on the tip of your saddle is inefficient, crunching forward compresses your lungs, and the tight hip angle interferes with your hip flexors. The geometry is optimized for flat terrain, but not ideal on climbs.

Modern geometry optimizes the seated position for climbs, the standing position for descents, and the flat-ground position is the one that's compromised.

Which Bronson are we talking about? The current generation was launched in 2018, but as a 2019 model, if I recall. If it's the current model, you might consider it, though Santa Cruz didn't really get on board with modern geometry until 2019 (model year 2020). If it's the outgoing model, it's not a big enough improvement to be worth it.

Posted: Sep 11, 2019 at 6:03 Quote
thanx for the reply.

Actually, its the "old" bronson (V2) but I've read incredible good reviews abouot it, but with some complains in climbing abilities. even thou, seems its better climber than the V3?....

The thing that really annoys me, is that at first, I bought the Norco the wrong size (S instead of M)
However, when researching, I found that the super small Norco (im 169cm height, and S is ment to be up to 164cm riders) is almost identical in size to the Bronson M.

Do you think I would notice a difference? your final answer is not worth the change?

thanx again

Posted: Sep 11, 2019 at 10:07 Quote
Yep, final answer.

Santa Cruz has modernized the geometry and kinematics of models released in 2019 (MY2020). The latest 5010, Bronson, and Nomad are partway there in kinematics and still fairly conservative in geometry. The geometry and kinematics of the Bronson v2 were spot-on average for its category among bikes launched in 2014-2015. (If you're wondering, I have a database of geometry and kinematics.)

Not sure how you're calculating the Small Range is comparable to the Medium Bronson. Are you getting that from a chart of recommended rider heights? If so, it's best to ignore such charts and, instead, look at the actual numbers. Imagine a T-shirt with a 40" actual dimension across the chest: one brand may call that a Medium, another may call it a Small, and it's probably XXL in Southeast Asia!

To put another way: there are currently two bikes on the market where their size Mediums fit larger than the Bronson in size XL - and that's just the "reach" measurement. Once you start looking at head-tube angle, seat-tube angle, and kinematics, the changes in the past five years have been rapid and significant.

I charted recommended reach vs. rider height for bikes released in 2018 - 2019. The industry thinks you should be on a bike with a reach near 440 mm, which puts you between the L and XL in your 2013 Range or precisely on the Large Bronson v2. This doesn't account for the slack seat-tube angles of older bikes, though, so you'd need to slam the saddle forward on its rails or even reverse an offset seatpost to replicate a modern fit. As I said, things have changed.

The Bronson v2 just isn't sufficiently different from your current bike. In 2015, it may have been regarded as moderately different, but compared to 2019 bikes, you're splitting hairs between them and they're both outdated. You'd be better off with an inexpensive, modern bike.

Posted: Sep 11, 2019 at 10:20 Quote
thanx a lot!!!!!!!!

you saved me some money Wink I will just wait to see what the Strive 2020 comes like, that bike is making me crazy.

As you said, I will save that money and wait for something newer/better!

Once again, thanx a lot for your trusted input

Posted: Sep 11, 2019 at 10:23 Quote
Happy to help!

Buy cheap bikes more often Wink

Some suggestions for good bikes at reasonable prices:

• Bird: all models
• Commencal: Meta TR 29 in particular
• Fuji: Auric, Rakan
• Ibis: Ripmo AF
• Marin: several models, especially Alpine Trail, Hawk Hill, Riftt Zone
• Norco: Fluid
• Privateer: 161
• YT: all models except the aluminum Jeffsy, until they update it with the same geometry as the carbon Jeffsy

Posted: Sep 15, 2019 at 2:21 Quote
Wait for the release of the 2020 Sight. Wink Ordered mine.

Posted: Sep 15, 2019 at 22:03 Quote
I don't see any details on the 2020 Sight on the internet, and you've already ordered one?!!

Posted: Sep 16, 2019 at 1:17 Quote
razzle wrote:
I don't see any details on the 2020 Sight on the internet, and you've already ordered one?!!

Your local shop will have deets and pricing. Nice bikes.

Posted: Sep 16, 2019 at 9:54 Quote
waiting for the Actual Strive.
Almost pulled the trigger... right now its 1.000 off, which I believe its an awesome deal.
However, Im not in a rush, so I'll just wait to see the new models.
And I bet they will come cheaper than any Norco bike.

If I would consider the Sight, I believe I would take the Commencal TR any day Wink

Posted: Sep 16, 2019 at 11:30 Quote
PaulieAU wrote:
razzle wrote:
I don't see any details on the 2020 Sight on the internet, and you've already ordered one?!!

Your local shop will have deets and pricing. Nice bikes.

What's are the Geo changes from last year's model?

Posted: Sep 18, 2019 at 3:37 Quote
razzle wrote:

What's are the Geo changes from last year's model?

The new Torrent is a good indication of what to expect.

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