Standing up and pedaling an Evil

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Standing up and pedaling an Evil
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flag elcam
Posted: Sep 12, 2019 at 12:30 Quote
I ride a 29 inch single speed honzo and am in the market for a full suspension bike, but I hate sitting down and riding. I had the misfortune of riding a Scott full squish the other weekend. Soft, sloppy, slow, etc. My sons's Yeti SB5 is a little better. Since I'm about to pull the trigger on an Evil, wondering if anyone out there stands up on a full suspension bike when climbing?
flag skerby
Posted: Sep 12, 2019 at 12:43 Quote
As long as your shock and fork have lockout you will be fine. You'll probably end up sitting down eventually though, all the die-hard standers I have seen move from hardtail to full suspension have eventually just started sitting like a normal person. I think you need a lot of rigidity in the rear triangle for standing to pay off, and the lockouts always give a little.
flag Three6ty
O+ FL
Posted: Sep 12, 2019 at 12:48 Quote
if you don't want it to bob then don't get a FS. they will all "Squish" when you stand up and pedal. The Evil will be no different. and like the other guy said the lockout switch on the shock can work but its a pain in the ass to always reach down and flick it open and closed.
One way around it is to get a remote lockout lever and you can lock out the shock and fork whenever you want. both RockShox and Fox makes them for their shocks.
flag 50105010
O+
Posted: Sep 14, 2019 at 18:46 Quote
The Ripmo is the only bike I've ridden where the suspension can translate pedal bob into forward motion. Standing up and hammering, specifically bouncing up and down, works so well on the flow trails of northwest Arkansas, that it feels like it activates some kind of overdrive feature. It's really an amazing sensation. My last 5010 v2 was definitely a sit and pedal/no sudden vertical movements kinda bike.
flag elcam
Posted: Sep 16, 2019 at 14:35 Quote
OK, so it sounds like everyone who ride FS just sits on their prostate for the entire climb? Shit, I want the downhill flow of full suspension, but that type of climbing is a buzz kill. I love the 3D aspect of single speed climbing, getting to the top and feeling the burn all through my shoulders and back, instead of just my legs. Plus I usually beat everyone else to the top, even if I have to hike-a-bike from time to time.
flag phops
Posted: Sep 16, 2019 at 15:50 Quote
Sitting down and climbing is the only way you are getting up technical climbs, unless you are really good at trials. You need to weight the rear while providing smooth traction, which is really only possible while seated. If you would rather hike a bike through these sections, thats really up to you, but dismounting and remounting a bike on an upslope is often slower.

If you like a firm climbing platform, you can get a bike with a shock (or buy a different shock) that has a lockout adjustment that makes the shock very stiff, which will let you stand up pedal with minimal bob.
flag gramboh
O+ FL
Posted: Sep 23, 2019 at 14:17 Quote
Hardtail/SS stand the entire time they climb? What if you are climbing for 30-90 minutes up 1,000m vert? Sitting and spinning FTW, save your legs for the descent.
flag hartmd25
O+ FL
Posted: Sep 23, 2019 at 17:59 Quote
I second the notion that the propulsion of the ripmo while standing feels like a hard tail. Mind blowing. And when you hit chunk magically turns into a fs bike again.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Sep 23, 2019 at 18:46 Quote
Standing raises your centre of mass. This lowers the anti-squat, since the calculation of anti-squat involves the location of your centre of mass.

The solution is to get the highest anti-squat possible. You can do this by using a smaller chainring (makes a considerable difference!) and selecting a bike with an inherently high anti-squat. Here's a dump from my database of the bikes with highest anti-squat:

Bird Aeris AM9 2017
Ibis Ripley 2019
Ibis Ripmo AF 2019
Nicolai Saturn 14 2019
Orange Stage 6 2017
Orbea Rallon 2017
Privateer 161 2019
Santa Cruz Hightower 2019
Santa Cruz Megatower 2019
Stanton Switch9er FS 2018
Terrain Control Crowbar 2018
Yeti SB150 2018

The Terrain Control has the highest by quite a margin; good choice for pedaling while standing. Privateer 161 and Orbea Rallon are next-highest.
flag seanondemand
Posted: Sep 23, 2019 at 20:49 Quote
Anti-squat can feel good, but it’s still an inefficiency in the system - pedalling force is going into the drivetrain and lifting the bike up, rather than propelling the bike forward.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Sep 23, 2019 at 20:53 Quote
seanondemand wrote:
Anti-squat can feel good, but it’s still an inefficiency in the system - pedalling force is going into the drivetrain and lifting the bike up, rather than propelling the bike forward.

That's not how it works.

If the forces balance, there is no lifting. If the forces don't balance, there is either squat or jack. The trick is to get the forces to balance.

Yes, the chain tension is used to support you from squatting into the suspension. That doesn't mean the force is wasted - quite the opposite: that's when no energy is wasted. Energy is force × distance: if your mass doesn't squat or jack, there is no distance in this unwanted direction and all the force is used to move you forward.
flag skerby
Posted: Sep 24, 2019 at 15:02 Quote
The mass does squat and jack when standing though right? So need high antisquat to conteract the man junping up and down on the pedals?

This makes sense to me, at least.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Sep 24, 2019 at 18:29 Quote
skerby wrote:
The mass does squat and jack when standing though right? So need high antisquat to conteract the man junping up and down on the pedals?

This makes sense to me, at least.

Yes, that's the general idea. The higher the centre of mass, the higher the pedaling anti-squat has to be. Many people have a very jerky motion when standing to pedal, with a big force when the pedal hits 6 o'clock; this is difficult to handle via anti-squat, since it's a large squat force when there's almost no chain tension available.
flag rahrider
O+
Posted: Sep 24, 2019 at 21:06 Quote
As someone who rides SS, hardtail and owns an evil insurgent I can confidently say you will probably not have fun climbing on the evil like you would a SS. Depending on what shock you get, you may be able to use the lockout or crank up the low speed compression to give you a firmer platform but I wouldn't recommend climbing 60mins out of the saddle the way you do on a SS. On the other hand, Getting out of the saddle for steep tech climbing on the evil works fine.
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