Time for Pinkbike to help us examine the risks we are taking

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Time for Pinkbike to help us examine the risks we are taking
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Posted: Oct 11, 2019 at 9:06 Quote
I chipped in for a gofundme yesterday for one mountain biker with a broken back and just read the sad news of the third well-known rider who recently died from a mountain bike crash. Meanwhile, I'm doing absolutely nothing Instagram-worthy and yet I've had at least one ER trip per year since I started seriously mountain biking in 2007.

Pinkbike has access to some great resources and I'd love it if one of their authors took a crack at helping us take a hard look at the risks we're taking and the roles progression, sponsors and social media play in it. Is anyone else interested in learning more about this topic? Are there any good research studies or articles already out there?

Posted: Oct 11, 2019 at 10:45 Quote
As far as numbers an data are concerned I found this pretty interesting:

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/6-key-facts-from-the-ews-health-study.html

Posted: Oct 11, 2019 at 11:15 Quote
I found this a very interesting read. I could relate to a lot of the findings.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6156442/

Posted: Dec 8, 2019 at 0:16 Quote
Yes, preventing ER trips should be high on any bikers priority list! Check out Gene Hamilton of BetterRide's Mini-Course on the 10 most common MTB mistakes and how to prevent them. So many crashes can be prevented by educating riders of the correct MTB-techniques.
https://betterride.net/

Posted: Jan 8, 2020 at 13:09 Quote
Hello,

Here's some hard data for you.

https://www.actionsportsems.com/case-study-neck-brace

All I can say is I took one look at this & other related medical studies and bought a neck brace. I'm never going to be caught riding downhill without one.

Posted: Jan 14, 2020 at 10:02 Quote
Personally speaking; I have no death wish but I find the modern western world smothering with all its rules, regulations and health and safety. I see mountain biking as totally liberating and the perfect antidote to this stifling and ever intrusive nonsense.
As the saying goes: "You only begin to feel alive when faced with death"

Posted: Jan 14, 2020 at 11:58 Quote
Maverick-dm wrote:
Personally speaking; I have no death wish but I find the modern western world smothering with all its rules, regulations and health and safety. I see mountain biking as totally liberating and the perfect antidote to this stifling and ever intrusive nonsense.
As the saying goes: "You only begin to feel alive when faced with death"

Couldn't agree more. I work in an overly cautious office setting where we're told to always have 3 points of contact while using the stairs Rolleyes Getting out on my mountain bike after work or on the weekends keeps me feeling alive.

I would be curious to see a statistical comparison between road biking injuries and mountain biking injuries. I would assume that mountain bikers crash more frequently, but that road bikers crash more severely (i.e. with a motor vehicle).

Posted: Jan 14, 2020 at 12:11 Quote
I know the sport is progressing, but so are the bikes. I'm not sure how much (if any) more dangerous it is now, compared to the days of no suspension and canti brakes.

Yes, we're going bigger and faster, but I managed to snap my femur in two places back in 2006. I was doing about 7mph at the time, shit happens. Whenever I talk to someone wanting to get into the sport I tell them to resign themselves to the fact that they will hurt themselves to some extent or other if they take it up. If that's a problem then look for another sport.

One thing I can say for sure is, for me, it's been a great way to hurt yourself ever since I started riding in 1989. lol

Posted: Jan 14, 2020 at 21:56 Quote
metaam wrote:
I know the sport is progressing, but so are the bikes. I'm not sure how much (if any) more dangerous it is now, compared to the days of no suspension and canti brakes.

Yes, we're going bigger and faster, but I managed to snap my femur in two places back in 2006. I was doing about 7mph at the time, shit happens. Whenever I talk to someone wanting to get into the sport I tell them to resign themselves to the fact that they will hurt themselves to some extent or other if they take it up. If that's a problem then look for another sport.

One thing I can say for sure is, for me, it's been a great way to hurt yourself ever since I started riding in 1989. lol

That's kind of my point--- The sport is progressing, the bikes are progressing, social media is progressing, but our spines, cartilage and ligaments haven't progressed and surgery hasn't really come all that far. Look at Rachel Atherton's snapped achilles--- Six months of rehab and likely chronic achilles pain and mobility limitations from an injury on a jump that any of us could access at a bike park.

When I was researching this subject I read a comment from someone on a different thread who works at an ER near a big ski mountain who said that 1-2 mountain bikers a year die there and that the park has a policy of not announcing these deaths. If that blows out to 50 or more mountain biker deaths a year at all of the bike parks combined, shouldn't we have visible data so we can make risk-based decisions about how we ride?

Posted: Jan 15, 2020 at 0:49 Quote
I can only speak for myself, but I know what I'm happy to ride and I don't think any data is likely to change that. My risk assessment is based much more on my own ability (or lack of) than what has happened to others.
Unless we get full details of incidents, which often would be against family wishes, it's hard to make judgments, for example someone may have died due to medical reasons rather than a riding situation.

Posted: Jan 15, 2020 at 1:35 Quote
I've concussed myself, broken a wrist and suffered plenty of bruises and scrapes in my last seven years riding.
Suffered by far the most painful injury of my life on the dancefloor at the Mrs birthday when my ankle decided to snap. Seven screws and a plate.

You can't manage all the risk out of your life and if you can't make accurate assessments of your ability to do something safely then that's on you. Accidents can and will happen and it's up to the individual to make their own decisions on safety etc If you're the kind of moron who decides to try jumping a train on your second bike outing because you saw something on instragram then you deserve everything you get.

Posted: Jan 16, 2020 at 7:02 Quote
allarile260 wrote:
Hello,

Here's some hard data for you.

https://www.actionsportsems.com/case-study-neck-brace

All I can say is I took one look at this & other related medical studies and bought a neck brace. I'm never going to be caught riding downhill without one.

Not going to disagree with your choice. I think neck braces are definitely beneficial, and make sense for someone riding in a bike park.

But that is a very flawed study done at a high school level at best.

Posted: Jan 16, 2020 at 9:28 Quote
I don't really think it is anyone's responsibility to present all the data to you or conduct studies based on it. That being said, I don't think data should be withheld. Intentionally covering up fatal injuries is disgusting.

Life is dangerous. Driving cars, motorcycles, flying, walking, etc.... EVERYTHING can get you hurt. The last thing I want is someone force feeding me statistics on everything that is going to kill me. I would be scared to do anything! That is not the life I want to live. I think it is a much better approach for people to be realistic with themselves about ability. Perform actions that are within your ability! This doesn't mean you can't progress but do it as controlled as possible. Take little steps. I would much rather being doing something I love and have an accident happen then say driving to work and have an accident happen.

Posted: Jan 22, 2020 at 10:49 Quote
howmaybesgo wrote:
I don't really think it is anyone's responsibility to present all the data to you or conduct studies based on it. That being said, I don't think data should be withheld. Intentionally covering up fatal injuries is disgusting.

Life is dangerous. Driving cars, motorcycles, flying, walking, etc.... EVERYTHING can get you hurt. The last thing I want is someone force feeding me statistics on everything that is going to kill me. I would be scared to do anything! That is not the life I want to live. I think it is a much better approach for people to be realistic with themselves about ability. Perform actions that are within your ability! This doesn't mean you can't progress but do it as controlled as possible. Take little steps. I would much rather being doing something I love and have an accident happen then say driving to work and have an accident happen.

It sounds to me that the bike parks (and is resorts) are withholding data about deaths under the guise of respecting privacy but with the intention of maintaining their brand image. Any park that steps forward with integrity and starts reporting on their own might be at a competitive disadvantage to the ones who cover this up.

For example, how many spinal cord injuries have been sustained on A-Line in Whistler? Is it zero or 100? Should we have to wait and see a friend carted off before deciding to moderate our own riding?

Pinkbike shows a 6 year old kid hucking a 10 foot drop--- Is that awesome or is that child abuse?

Does the parent actually know how risky those moves are?

Posted: Jan 22, 2020 at 13:56 Quote
Marcencinitas wrote:
It sounds to me that the bike parks (and is resorts) are withholding data about deaths under the guise of respecting privacy but with the intention of maintaining their brand image. Any park that steps forward with integrity and starts reporting on their own might be at a competitive disadvantage to the ones who cover this up.

For example, how many spinal cord injuries have been sustained on A-Line in Whistler? Is it zero or 100? Should we have to wait and see a friend carted off before deciding to moderate our own riding?

Pinkbike shows a 6 year old kid hucking a 10 foot drop--- Is that awesome or is that child abuse?

Does the parent actually know how risky those moves are?

But shouldn't you just moderate own risk in general??? Does it take a statistic telling your the numbers before you know you could get seriously injured? I know I can look at a feature and tell myself "nope, that is a little beyond my skill". While I don't believe bike parks should hide any information I also don't believe it is their place to hold your hand and tell you what you should and shouldn't do. The trails are rated and so many warnings are posted at parks and on their web sites.

If a kid is being forced to do something that is dangerous then it is child abuse. If it is a parent letting their kid ride and progress then, no, it is not child abuse. Same goes for any sport. If a parent is concerned with the risk then I believe it is their responsibility to educate themselves and set boundaries they are comfortable with. Pretty simple to add up the factors with no real numbers and know it is a dangerous sport. speed = dangerous, falling from height = dangerous, combination of both = dangerous

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