How well do DH bikes jump?

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How well do DH bikes jump?
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flag angushall19
Posted: Nov 6, 2019 at 20:16 Quote
Going into next year whenever I can finally drive I am wondering if it will be worth it to buy a DH bike or just another enduro. I have a Kona process right now and either way I want a little more travel as I find myself bottoming out hard in many occasions with proper shock setup. I really don't care about speed or how well a bike sticks to the ground in a rock garden, but rather how it jumps. Although DH bikes may be better for the giant sketchy stuff out in the Utah desert do they make your average black bike park jump run more tame and less fun or the other way around? Can you even feel much of a difference jumping them? The places I ride most often are Beacon Hill and Silver Mountain if anyone knows them. My options right now are probably between the Tranny Patrol and Commencal Clash or for DH the Commencal Furious. Any insight would be appreciated.
flag shwinn8
Posted: Nov 7, 2019 at 9:39 Quote
based off RedBull Rampage and other Youtube Videos i would say they jump fairly well depending on the riders ability
flag Aptlynamed
Posted: Nov 7, 2019 at 12:31 Quote
angushall19 wrote:
Going into next year whenever I can finally drive I am wondering if it will be worth it to buy a DH bike or just another enduro. I have a Kona process right now and either way I want a little more travel as I find myself bottoming out hard in many occasions with proper shock setup. I really don't care about speed or how well a bike sticks to the ground in a rock garden, but rather how it jumps. Although DH bikes may be better for the giant sketchy stuff out in the Utah desert do they make your average black bike park jump run more tame and less fun or the other way around? Can you even feel much of a difference jumping them? The places I ride most often are Beacon Hill and Silver Mountain if anyone knows them. My options right now are probably between the Tranny Patrol and Commencal Clash or for DH the Commencal Furious. Any insight would be appreciated.

Try renting some DH bikes at a bikepark. You need some speed for a DH bike to be fun. On small jumps with slow speed they are not as poppy as a bike with less travel.
flag thejake
Posted: Nov 7, 2019 at 12:38 Quote
Sounds like your suspension is not set up correctly for you if your bottoming our hard frequently. A downhill bike will bottom just as much if it’s set up wrong. They do jump well if it’s high speed and and the jumps are big. Smaller jumps and tight terrain tend to be a lot of work on a big bike. I’ve rode Silver Mountain once and a DH bike would be fun there in my opinion, for the jump lines and tech trails.
flag Aptlynamed
Posted: Nov 7, 2019 at 12:46 Quote
If I remember well the linkage system of Processes a few years back had a rather linear leverage curve so that could be a factor. It would benefit from an air shock with some tokens inside to make it a bit more progressive.
flag PapaGordo
Posted: Nov 7, 2019 at 15:10 Quote
You won't really need a DH bike to ride Beacon. I think Beacon is better suited to enduro style bikes. You would definitely appreciate a DH bike more at Silver.
flag angushall19
Posted: Nov 7, 2019 at 21:48 Quote
thejake wrote:
Sounds like your suspension is not set up correctly for you if your bottoming our hard frequently. A downhill bike will bottom just as much if it’s set up wrong. They do jump well if it’s high speed and and the jumps are big. Smaller jumps and tight terrain tend to be a lot of work on a big bike. I’ve rode Silver Mountain once and a DH bike would be fun there in my opinion, for the jump lines and tech trails.
That's with max tokens and 25% sag.
flag thejake
Posted: Nov 8, 2019 at 7:07 Quote
angushall19 wrote:
thejake wrote:
Sounds like your suspension is not set up correctly for you if your bottoming our hard frequently. A downhill bike will bottom just as much if it’s set up wrong. They do jump well if it’s high speed and and the jumps are big. Smaller jumps and tight terrain tend to be a lot of work on a big bike. I’ve rode Silver Mountain once and a DH bike would be fun there in my opinion, for the jump lines and tech trails.
That's with max tokens and 25% sag.

What shock?
flag onyxss
Posted: Nov 8, 2019 at 10:16 Quote
angushall19 wrote:
thejake wrote:
Sounds like your suspension is not set up correctly for you if your bottoming our hard frequently. A downhill bike will bottom just as much if it’s set up wrong. They do jump well if it’s high speed and and the jumps are big. Smaller jumps and tight terrain tend to be a lot of work on a big bike. I’ve rode Silver Mountain once and a DH bike would be fun there in my opinion, for the jump lines and tech trails.
That's with max tokens and 25% sag.
Something must be wrong with suspension itself or suspension setup - or you weight 200kg Big Grin
You can see those bike not bottoming out from WAAAYYY bigger jumps and drops than you will ever even consider trying Big Grin
flag angushall19
Posted: Nov 8, 2019 at 17:16 Quote
onyxss wrote:
angushall19 wrote:
thejake wrote:
Sounds like your suspension is not set up correctly for you if your bottoming our hard frequently. A downhill bike will bottom just as much if it’s set up wrong. They do jump well if it’s high speed and and the jumps are big. Smaller jumps and tight terrain tend to be a lot of work on a big bike. I’ve rode Silver Mountain once and a DH bike would be fun there in my opinion, for the jump lines and tech trails.
That's with max tokens and 25% sag.
Something must be wrong with suspension itself or suspension setup - or you weight 200kg Big Grin
You can see those bike not bottoming out from WAAAYYY bigger jumps and drops than you will ever even consider trying Big Grin
Nothing is wrong with the suspension or the setup. I've worked at a bike shop and have set up plenty of them. Regardless of the size of something the landing matters more. The 69 footer at rampage wasn't even using half of many riders suspension just because it is smooth and well angled. Whereas a baby 3-foot drop into braking bumps or rocks would make you bottom out because even with your rebound turned the whole way up you will just dive deeper into your travel until there isn't anything left. Most of the stuff I bottom out on is like that or just hucks to flat where a few extra millimeters of travel would help.
flag thejake
Posted: Nov 8, 2019 at 17:43 Quote
angushall19 wrote:
onyxss wrote:
angushall19 wrote:
That's with max tokens and 25% sag.
Something must be wrong with suspension itself or suspension setup - or you weight 200kg Big Grin
You can see those bike not bottoming out from WAAAYYY bigger jumps and drops than you will ever even consider trying Big Grin
Nothing is wrong with the suspension or the setup. I've worked at a bike shop and have set up plenty of them. Regardless of the size of something the landing matters more. The 69 footer at rampage wasn't even using half of many riders suspension just because it is smooth and well angled. Whereas a baby 3-foot drop into braking bumps or rocks would make you bottom out because even with your rebound turned the whole way up you will just dive deeper into your travel until there isn't anything left. Most of the stuff I bottom out on is like that or just hucks to flat where a few extra millimeters of travel would help.

I’d try a different shock. Sounds like the low speed compression is non existent. Small drops with semi harsh landings should not be causing harsh bottom outs.

Back to your original question the Patrol is pretty sturdy and “On-Coil” so that would be a sweet park set up. I believe they are fairly progressive which will help resist bottoming too.
flag onyxss
Posted: Nov 9, 2019 at 2:53 Quote
angushall19 wrote:
onyxss wrote:
angushall19 wrote:
That's with max tokens and 25% sag.
Something must be wrong with suspension itself or suspension setup - or you weight 200kg Big Grin
You can see those bike not bottoming out from WAAAYYY bigger jumps and drops than you will ever even consider trying Big Grin
Nothing is wrong with the suspension or the setup. I've worked at a bike shop and have set up plenty of them. Regardless of the size of something the landing matters more. The 69 footer at rampage wasn't even using half of many riders suspension just because it is smooth and well angled. Whereas a baby 3-foot drop into braking bumps or rocks would make you bottom out because even with your rebound turned the whole way up you will just dive deeper into your travel until there isn't anything left. Most of the stuff I bottom out on is like that or just hucks to flat where a few extra millimeters of travel would help.

You worked at shop and have plenty of experience with suspension ... and you ask for advice in PB forums.... right.....don't forget to add "i'm and engineer" argument.

You are doing it all as it should be, and yet still you bottom out. Doesn't your "experienced" mind tell you that something is wrong with setup or shock? Blank Stare
flag yzedf
Posted: Nov 9, 2019 at 7:31 Quote
The biggest differences are geo, weight and wheelbase. As trails bikes get closer to dh bikes, both in length and weight, and even in geo in certain cases, it’s more about finding the 90-10 bike. Whatever is good for 90% of what you ride.
flag angushall19
Posted: Nov 9, 2019 at 21:13 Quote
onyxss wrote:
angushall19 wrote:
onyxss wrote:

Something must be wrong with suspension itself or suspension setup - or you weight 200kg Big Grin
You can see those bike not bottoming out from WAAAYYY bigger jumps and drops than you will ever even consider trying Big Grin
Nothing is wrong with the suspension or the setup. I've worked at a bike shop and have set up plenty of them. Regardless of the size of something the landing matters more. The 69 footer at rampage wasn't even using half of many riders suspension just because it is smooth and well angled. Whereas a baby 3-foot drop into braking bumps or rocks would make you bottom out because even with your rebound turned the whole way up you will just dive deeper into your travel until there isn't anything left. Most of the stuff I bottom out on is like that or just hucks to flat where a few extra millimeters of travel would help.

You worked at shop and have plenty of experience with suspension ... and you ask for advice in PB forums.... right.....don't forget to add "i'm and engineer" argument.

You are doing it all as it should be, and yet still you bottom out. Doesn't your "experienced" mind tell you that something is wrong with setup or shock? Blank Stare
Im not trying to argue just saying that the shock is set up properly with the limited adjustment it has.
flag Muchogusto
Posted: Nov 21, 2019 at 4:38 Quote
thejake wrote:
angushall19 wrote:
onyxss wrote:

Something must be wrong with suspension itself or suspension setup - or you weight 200kg Big Grin
You can see those bike not bottoming out from WAAAYYY bigger jumps and drops than you will ever even consider trying Big Grin
Nothing is wrong with the suspension or the setup. I've worked at a bike shop and have set up plenty of them. Regardless of the size of something the landing matters more. The 69 footer at rampage wasn't even using half of many riders suspension just because it is smooth and well angled. Whereas a baby 3-foot drop into braking bumps or rocks would make you bottom out because even with your rebound turned the whole way up you will just dive deeper into your travel until there isn't anything left. Most of the stuff I bottom out on is like that or just hucks to flat where a few extra millimeters of travel would help.

I’d try a different shock. Sounds like the low speed compression is non existent. Small drops with semi harsh landings should not be causing harsh bottom outs.

Back to your original question the Patrol is pretty sturdy and “On-Coil” so that would be a sweet park set up. I believe they are fairly progressive which will help resist bottoming too.

The patrol is one of the most linear bikes available in its class and will not give you the bottomless feel. It's a fun bike due to the geometry, but also a hard frame to make work with anything other than a custom shock. I've run a DHX2 and a Float X2 thus far, but neither are really suited to the kinematics - this is why the sbg bikes were spec'd with a low volume air shock like the dpx2, prior to going #oncoil, however I can't speak to the tunes on the shocks coming on the new bikes. Most people are looking to progressive springs or custom coils like 11-6 or ext storia just to make it work.

Compare the following leverage graphs for an illustration:

Patrol:
http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2017/11/transition-patrol-2018.html

Nomad:
http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2017/11/santa-cruz-nomad-iiii-2018.html

Capra:
http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2018/02/ytalent-capra-275-2018.html

Torque:
http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2017/12/canyon-torque-275-2018.html

Insurgent:
http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2015/11/evil-insurgent-275-2016.html

Having ridden at Silver myself, you may want to look into a santa cruz nomad 4 alloy frame with a cascade components long travel link. You could run two different rear shocks and two different forks to get a trail and park/downhill bike out of the same frame. I would do this if I were to do it all over again.

http://cascadecomponents.bike/nomad-lt-link/
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