That "on rails" feeling in corners

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That "on rails" feeling in corners
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Posted: Nov 19, 2019 at 7:12 Quote
Hi all,

Does anyone know what characteristic or combination of characterisics in a bike produces that 'on rails' feeling in corners?

I ask due to the following obeservation: I ride the AL Comp YT Capra in 27.5 size L and recently rode my buddies SC Hightower LT (with 29" wheels). We are the same size and weight and ride very similarly so from bike setup there is no big difference, but the SC felt amazing!! in corners while my Capra feels like it needs more force and care to hold a corner. I have the feeling it wants to stand up more and it's more of an effort to get over the front wheel.... think understeer perhaps?

What is it about the Hightower LT that produces this? The 29" wheels and lower center of gravity versus the axle? The BB height? Can it be wheel stiffness? I recently notice that my E1900 Wheels have for my feeling quite low spoke tension. What else is there?

I would love to be able to realize that feeling in the Capra if there is some magic fix to apply.
I appreciate your thoughts and experiences.
N

Posted: Nov 19, 2019 at 8:28 Quote
Tires, tire pressure and body position come to mind. I haven't ridden either on trail so I can't speak to them specifically. isn't the head angle on the Hightower LT steeper than the Capra? This could give it a more nimble feeling along with shorter wheelbase that could make it easier to lean over in a corner. I don't have the geo's up in front of me so just speculating a bit. Could be the Hightower LT's geo is more natural for you and puts you in a better position to rail berms. Not that you can't do the same on the Capra, it just may require a little more input.

Posted: Nov 19, 2019 at 9:52 Quote
BB drop has an affect, IMO. I started back to riding on a 17 5010, which 27.5. Always felt on top of the bike. I now have a HTLT and you are right, it takes a corner well. If I were you, I would look at all the specs from BB drop to fork offset. See where the big differences are. My Tallboy had the same WB as my HTLT but geo was different as it was an XL nad my HTLT is a large. The TB did not rail corners as well, though it did take hold a line thru a corner well, it did not rail the same as the LT. I did not expect the longer travel bike to perform that way compared to what I came off of.

Posted: Nov 20, 2019 at 23:15 Quote
This might be more subtle, but since I haven't seen it mentioned, shorter fork offsets and slack head angles will give you more of that feeling. I'm currently on a transition sentinel, and the steering feels like it wants to follow through whenever you turn and it will stay pointed wherever you steer it. I think wheelbase / reach plays into this as well.

Posted: Nov 21, 2019 at 5:24 Quote
It's bike independent. You just have to lean the bike over and get good bike-body separation - inside pedal up, bike leaned so the inside arm is straight and the outside arm is bent at 90 degrees, and your weight is oriented over the outside pedal. That's gets the turning lugs on the ground and your weight pushing down in to the ground, not out.

Posted: Nov 21, 2019 at 6:50 Quote
50105010 wrote:
It's bike independent. You just have to lean the bike over and get good bike-body separation - inside pedal up, bike leaned so the inside arm is straight and the outside arm is bent at 90 degrees, and your weight is oriented over the outside pedal. That's gets the turning lugs on the ground and your weight pushing down in to the ground, not out.

not completely. proper technique helps. my 17 5010 would not turn for crap. first ride on my 18 Tallboy and was like wow, it was not me. same corner, next day and it railed around a flat corner that I had always eased around.

Posted: Nov 21, 2019 at 10:16 Quote
Gee, this is a tuff one.
Ya bought a 27.5 and it doesn't handle like a 29.
I'm not surprised!

Posted: Nov 21, 2019 at 12:19 Quote
wickedfatchance wrote:
Gee, this is a tuff one.
Ya bought a 27.5 and it doesn't handle like a 29.
I'm not surprised!

Hahaha, right

I was thinking more of...Santa Cruz>YT

Posted: Nov 21, 2019 at 21:45 Quote
I feel like while 29ers may need a bit more force to lean, once leaned over they go through the turn almost on autopilot. Lots of traction and stability through the arc. I recently mulleted my 27.5 ht for a weekend and carving corners felt incredibly nice and safe. Once leaned into the turn the bike does all the work. Square profile tyres can help biting through the turn as well.

Posted: Nov 25, 2019 at 11:23 Quote
wickedfatchance wrote:
Gee, this is a tuff one.
Ya bought a 27.5 and it doesn't handle like a 29.
I'm not surprised!

Yeh when I get on a 29” after riding my 27.5 I’m blown away by how unresponsive, boring, and slow to react the 29’ers are. I’m always happy to get back on 27.5” after riding 29”.

Posted: Nov 26, 2019 at 9:35 Quote
Maybe you could try a ride on a 29er that was worth more that a 100 dollars
Ohiomtbwannab wrote:
wickedfatchance wrote:
Gee, this is a tuff one.
Ya bought a 27.5 and it doesn't handle like a 29.
I'm not surprised!

Yeh when I get on a 29” after riding my 27.5 I’m blown away by how unresponsive, boring, and slow to react the 29’ers are. I’m always happy to get back on 27.5” after riding 29”.

Posted: Nov 26, 2019 at 12:28 Quote
wickedfatchance wrote:
Maybe you could try a ride on a 29er that was worth more that a 100 dollars
Ohiomtbwannab wrote:
wickedfatchance wrote:
Gee, this is a tuff one.
Ya bought a 27.5 and it doesn't handle like a 29.
I'm not surprised!

Yeh when I get on a 29” after riding my 27.5 I’m blown away by how unresponsive, boring, and slow to react the 29’ers are. I’m always happy to get back on 27.5” after riding 29”.
I’m just stating my experience bud. No need to get all offended of my experience of a big wheeler.

Posted: Nov 30, 2019 at 1:58 Quote
It might help to play around with cockpit setup. 5mm of spacer change on stem height can mean a world of difference. Bar roll can be changed a lot to help with loading the front to lean the corners.

I have a 27,5” HT and a 29” FS. I get the feeling of railing corners on both, even though the geo is miles away.

The Capra is a cornering machine! Hope you find what you like.

Posted: Nov 30, 2019 at 6:58 Quote
wickedfatchance wrote:
Maybe you could try a ride on a 29er that was worth more that a 100 dollars
Ohiomtbwannab wrote:
wickedfatchance wrote:
Gee, this is a tuff one.
Ya bought a 27.5 and it doesn't handle like a 29.
I'm not surprised!

Yeh when I get on a 29” after riding my 27.5 I’m blown away by how unresponsive, boring, and slow to react the 29’ers are. I’m always happy to get back on 27.5” after riding 29”.

Big Grin

Posted: Nov 30, 2019 at 13:04 Quote
The rear triangle on the Capra is less stiff. This may contribute.

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