2020 Specialized Enduro Thoughts

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2020 Specialized Enduro Thoughts
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flag Petiloi
O+
Posted: Aug 22, 2023 at 14:58 Quote
Mike172 wrote:
Swapped the air spring out today in my 38s and the clicks have returned but onyl under load (like a landing or bunny hop), even after a really good clean up and re-grease it persists. Checking the rear shock again tomorrow. Ill check a different fork in case its CSU.

Is it normal or OK to have some delamination in the headset cups? There are images on here of the same thing where a bit of carbon looks to have delaminated where the face of the bearings sit against the frame. Not a crack, just got some small holes where it should be smooth.

Hate having to deal with stuff like this.

If you look in the manuel you will see an exploded bolt view. Bolt z is a collar bolt with a wedge behind a screw that expands the collar(bb) this is possibly where the clicking comes from. Lube the collar,the bolt and the wedge and likely it will stop. This was a clicking problem for me.
flag jawa
O+
Posted: Aug 23, 2023 at 5:20 Quote
Mike172 wrote:
Swapped the air spring out today in my 38s and the clicks have returned but onyl under load (like a landing or bunny hop), even after a really good clean up and re-grease it persists. Checking the rear shock again tomorrow. Ill check a different fork in case its CSU.

Is it normal or OK to have some delamination in the headset cups? There are images on here of the same thing where a bit of carbon looks to have delaminated where the face of the bearings sit against the frame. Not a crack, just got some small holes where it should be smooth.

Hate having to deal with stuff like this.

That delamination / holes sound exactly like the headset cup on my frame that was clicking from the headtube and ended up being warrantied. The defects acted as stress risers and cracks formed in the top cup because of them.
flag mrtrinh
Posted: Aug 23, 2023 at 9:26 Quote
ohio wrote:
Contemplating replacing my '20 Enduro. Honestly, there isn't much on the market that I think is better - the out of the saddle geometry and suspension are near perfect (I'm running an EXT Storia at 65mm for 185mm travel in High, but run about 33% sag, so geo is effectively Low). Want to keep that nice, low BB. I don't want shorter chainstays, which most new bikes still seem to have. My minimal complaints are:
1) Want slightly higher SA - I run my saddle slammed forward
2) Want slightly shorter reach, 455-460mm. I'm 5'8" on an S3.
3) Want to get full seatpost insertion and a 180mm dropper. I had to shorten my PNW Loam 170mmm to 165mm on the Enduro.
4) Want to lose some weight, if possible.
5) Wouldn't mind a slightly more playful, poppy bike, but need to keep that off-the-top suppleness - could probably do that by reducing my travel back to 170mm and upping spring rate on current setup.

I've made an insane spreadsheet to look at the geo #s of pretty much every current enduro frame. The 4 bikes that seemed to fit the criteria and are coil friendly were Orbea Rallon, Transition Spire, Canyon Strive, and Fezzari La Sal Peak.
- Rallon would drop 1.2kg/2.6lbs (!!!) of frame weight, but seems to give up a lot of compliance/suppleness based on reviews.
- Spire sounds like even more of a tank, and maybe slacker and longer than I want to go
- Strive looks good, but I don't really want their Shapeshifter, and it isn't available as a frame only.
- La Sal sounds like the goldilocks (aside from their terrible name).

Anyone have experience on both bikes - Enduro and La Sal? Would love to hear a comparison and qualitative impressions.

SC Megatower?
flag ohio
O+
Posted: Aug 24, 2023 at 11:54 Quote
mrtrinh wrote:
SC Megatower?

Seems very similar... seems like the only improvement is the seat angle, which is nearly addressable with scootching my saddle all the way forward.

I think the posters above maybe convinced me to give shorter travel and specifically a stumpy evo a shot - they're really cheap right now, and I don't even need a new dropper to swap all of the parts over. Easy enough to drop my Mezzer to 160mm. So for relatively cheap and I can experiment see if I'm actually happier on a shorter travel platform and if the weight loss matters to me.

Or just wait another season since I'm happy with the Enduro, and really just making projects for myself while going a little stir crazy between 3rd and 4th wrist surgeries...
flag Mike172
Posted: Aug 25, 2023 at 2:59 Quote
ohio wrote:
mrtrinh wrote:
SC Megatower?

Seems very similar... seems like the only improvement is the seat angle, which is nearly addressable with scootching my saddle all the way forward.

I think the posters above maybe convinced me to give shorter travel and specifically a stumpy evo a shot - they're really cheap right now, and I don't even need a new dropper to swap all of the parts over. Easy enough to drop my Mezzer to 160mm. So for relatively cheap and I can experiment see if I'm actually happier on a shorter travel platform and if the weight loss matters to me.

Or just wait another season since I'm happy with the Enduro, and really just making projects for myself while going a little stir crazy between 3rd and 4th wrist surgeries...

I nearly went with a Megatower and given their excellent warranty and from what I have seen excellent build quality I probably should have, the Enduro Comp being so cheap at £3500 and having the option to run 180ish (185?) mm travel out back swayed me as I had parts to swap in to replace the garbage Rockshox select it had, I specifically wanted a completely unnecessary 180mm 29er just to try out, the seat angle isnt an issue and the remainder of the geometry is absolutely fine.

I regret it, because I've got the shoddy 'previous gen' specialized build quality to deal with which I forgot about, specifically the headset problems (movement, creaking or clicking noise and looks like I might have an issue with delaminating now). The linkage also gets stones trapped in and among it which then crush the carbon frame. I'm a month in and have damaged the frame a little already.

Great bike, just has plenty of serious flaws. I'd think the new linkage on the demo will be simplified and look to work around the problems I've mentioned and I can see that the current Kenevo SL has integrated cups now so would expect those to feature on the next one. I would wait to see what the next Enduro will be like.

The stumpy Evo headset (with the swappable cups) probably wont be an issue. I didnt go with a stumpy evo because I have a Gen 3 Levo and a 2019 stumpy and I think that clevis design is a bit too compliant for me; there is too much lateral movement there for me and I dont think the leverage curve is very good. You can shove a 170 fork up front but would need a cascade to get more travel out the rear which I dont think are that great. Ive done this with my Levo - 170/160 now. Its then something it absolutely isnt. Its still a trail bike at the end of the day.

I dont know why I buy specialized so much, I have 5 of their bikes now.
flag kurt2
O+
Posted: Aug 25, 2023 at 9:24 Quote
Mike172 wrote:
After writing that I went for a ride and the headset is clicking badly again, the bike was also clicking from the pedal area - I think this is the trunnion mounts, though.

Got home, I replaced the entire headset assembly again this time with brand new Hope (Enduro) items, applied some grease to prevent any metal on metal clicks. Still feel like I have to apply excessive torque to the headset to remove any play.

Headset click has gone for now, but need to ride it properly and monitor it. Could be CSU, but its gone for now and I've multiple forks to test with.


The click from the BB area was easy to replicate at home just by riding the bike and tilting the bike left to right as you pedal. I just removed the bolts to the trunnion mounts, cleaned and re installed and that clicking has gone. Dont think its the pedals.

I think there's a problem with the shock or the mounts, or maybe the position of the bearings in the frame putting the shock on a slant, at a glance the inner trunnion spacer things appear to sit differently as though one bearing is too far out. Talking a couple of mm but think that might be enough to put stress on the bearings and cause noises in the frame.

Main pivot might need grease. I do that one frequently to avoid the clicking and popping noise
flag ohio
O+
Posted: Aug 25, 2023 at 11:48 Quote
[Quote="Mike172"][Quote="ohio"]
mrtrinh wrote:
I dont know why I buy specialized so much, I have 5 of their bikes now.

Ha same. I don't love the company, but damn they keep putting out bikes that are dialed for me and are consistently 2+ years ahead of the industry. Same with accessories - I'm on their saddles and in their shoes. Thankfully I haven't had any issues (yet) with my Enduro...

The Rallon is the one that intrigues me the most. I just would need a test ride before I plunk down for one (their frameset pricing is insane... I'll probably buy a built one and part it out), and I can pick up an SJ EVO for a third of that. Which is a good way to play around while waiting to see what next year brings.
flag gbcarmona
Posted: Aug 25, 2023 at 14:30 Quote
[Quote="ohio"][Quote="Mike172"]
ohio wrote:


Ha same. I don't love the company, but damn they keep putting out bikes that are dialed for me and are consistently 2+ years ahead of the industry. Same with accessories - I'm on their saddles and in their shoes. Thankfully I haven't had any issues (yet) with my Enduro...

The Rallon is the one that intrigues me the most. I just would need a test ride before I plunk down for one (their frameset pricing is insane... I'll probably buy a built one and part it out), and I can pick up an SJ EVO for a third of that. Which is a good way to play around while waiting to see what next year brings.

Totally agree with you…their DH flat shoes, shorts and trousers are so much better than anything else!? And the Phenom saddle is the best I’ve tried so far (tried many)! Spesh really are the best…assume due to their potential huge R&D budget!
flag lessizmore
Posted: Aug 26, 2023 at 2:57 Quote
2FO cliplite BOA shoes were amazing. It lasts 5 years with abuse.

2 months ago I had a deal on a nearly new Enduro S4. The montage made by a shop was crap : Fox 160mm fork, 175mm crankset, 150mm dropper. I also have the cracking headset and bottom bracket issues. Maybe it could be a CSU or an axle cracking. When the fork was on locked position, I had no cracking. I am quite shocked a shop built and sold a frame to the previous owner with such failure

So I am waiting for a Mezzer, CK Dropset 5 and 165mm cranset to be delivered... and my wrist to be repaired after a stupid crash probably caused by a crank scrapping.

It has a DPX2 (air is fine for me). I also find the SAG and damping pretty hard to tunes. 270 PSI to obtain 25% of SAG seems a lot for this shock and a weight 165lbs naked. But I had the same issue iwh a DPX2 on a Altitude.
flag duffman1976
O+
Posted: Aug 29, 2023 at 9:03 Quote
jawa wrote:
Mike172 wrote:
Swapped the air spring out today in my 38s and the clicks have returned but onyl under load (like a landing or bunny hop), even after a really good clean up and re-grease it persists. Checking the rear shock again tomorrow. Ill check a different fork in case its CSU.

Is it normal or OK to have some delamination in the headset cups? There are images on here of the same thing where a bit of carbon looks to have delaminated where the face of the bearings sit against the frame. Not a crack, just got some small holes where it should be smooth.

Hate having to deal with stuff like this.

That delamination / holes sound exactly like the headset cup on my frame that was clicking from the headtube and ended up being warrantied. The defects acted as stress risers and cracks formed in the top cup because of them.

My first enduro frame had the original headset cup carbon layup and it failed in 500 miles. Spesh replaced it with the new layup under warranty. That frame lasted 500 miles until the bottom headset cup delaminated and then started to crack in the delaminated area. Symptoms were creaking and popping after a month or so. Then a regrease and clean would fix it for a couple weeks before it returned. And then finally a clean and regrease didn't do anything. Creaking and popping returned on the very next ride. So now I have an S-Works frame as my 3rd enduro under warranty. Hopefully this one makes it until the new model is released.
flag Mike172
Posted: Aug 30, 2023 at 1:39 Quote
duffman1976 wrote:
jawa wrote:
Mike172 wrote:
Swapped the air spring out today in my 38s and the clicks have returned but onyl under load (like a landing or bunny hop), even after a really good clean up and re-grease it persists. Checking the rear shock again tomorrow. Ill check a different fork in case its CSU.

Is it normal or OK to have some delamination in the headset cups? There are images on here of the same thing where a bit of carbon looks to have delaminated where the face of the bearings sit against the frame. Not a crack, just got some small holes where it should be smooth.

Hate having to deal with stuff like this.

That delamination / holes sound exactly like the headset cup on my frame that was clicking from the headtube and ended up being warrantied. The defects acted as stress risers and cracks formed in the top cup because of them.

My first enduro frame had the original headset cup carbon layup and it failed in 500 miles. Spesh replaced it with the new layup under warranty. That frame lasted 500 miles until the bottom headset cup delaminated and then started to crack in the delaminated area. Symptoms were creaking and popping after a month or so. Then a regrease and clean would fix it for a couple weeks before it returned. And then finally a clean and regrease didn't do anything. Creaking and popping returned on the very next ride. So now I have an S-Works frame as my 3rd enduro under warranty. Hopefully this one makes it until the new model is released.


Good to know thanks

I ended up packing my headset with grease, other than a minor CSU crack its currently silent although expecting the frame to get noisy over time like you mentioned. I had to use a small amount of thread lock (and I do mean small) on the SWAT tool to stop it from becoming loose as well.





Anyone run the new Ohlins ttx22m.2 coil yet? Not having much luck getting my un-tuned 38's and RS 23' Coil how I want and thinking of replacing them with the new Ohlins stuff. My gen 3 levo on the same setup sits there and soaks up bigger hits on technical trails without too much rebound, but the Enduro just seems like a pogo stick.



Edit to add, just checked and I have a bearing that is seized so hoping that can be replaced and will resolve the crap suspension feel.

1 month old ffs.
flag dividebyzero
Posted: Sep 2, 2023 at 16:26 Quote
how bad is the headset creak when it happens?

I have a creak from hell when pressing down on the fork, not sure if its the frame or the Fox 38. Just riding down a smooth trail gives constant creaking like cable rattle but clicks and creaks.
flag duffman1976
O+
Posted: Sep 2, 2023 at 16:43 Quote
dividebyzero wrote:
how bad is the headset creak when it happens?

I have a creak from hell when pressing down on the fork, not sure if its the frame or the Fox 38. Just riding down a smooth trail gives constant creaking like cable rattle but clicks and creaks.

When it happens it’s loud. Sounds like your front end is rattling to pieces. Drop the fork and inspect your headset cups.
flag Mike172
Posted: Sep 8, 2023 at 3:27 Quote
6 weeks into owning my 22' Comp and the rear of the bike feels and sounds horrendous.

Out of 4 different shocks (tuned TTX22m.2, tuned X2, stock '23 RS SD Coil, and the RX tuned RS Select) only the RS Select air feels ok, thats also the only shock thats 60 stroke, the remainder are 65. All of the other shocks all feel and sound like a bag of spanners. Like a linkage bolt isnt quite tight. The two coils feel notchy (like a compression circuit bump), the two air shocks break away without issue.

I've stripped down the entire linkage completely, had to replace 4 of the S&S bearings. There's no movement, everything's greased, torque'd up to spec and in order, and I've thread locked the bolts carefully. All linkage without the shock in place moves very smoothly and there's no

Shock's surely to blame. Odd that 3/4 are an issue and I cant detect ANY movement in the shock or the linkage. FWIW I also stripped down the drive train.

At a loss with this bike. I wish I never bought it as yet again its turned into another time consuming nightmare.

 


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