Madonna V2 vs Ripmo AF vs Meta AM - any others I should consider?

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Madonna V2 vs Ripmo AF vs Meta AM - any others I should consider?
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flag skalatskiy
Posted: Feb 9, 2020 at 10:44 Quote
jordanredshaw wrote:
gafoto wrote:
I'm a very similar body size to you and was in the same shopping boat until recently. My top 3 contenders were the Privateer 161, Madonna V2 and the Banshee Titan. I also considered the Bird Aeris AM9. I went with the Madonna because of the possible length of seatpost insertion and the rocker link tuned for heavier riders. Also it looks pretty slick. The other factors like geometry and quality of the frame seem to be fairly similar between those (i.e. they will take a beating.

Pole makes big metal bikes too though their prices make the Madonna look like a bargain.

I love that Raaw made the big guy rocker - which is a definite selling point. I also feel like I need to include the 2020 Norco Sight in my search as the geo is pretty close and the pricing is incredible (for the aluminium version).


Sorry to tell you that but the leverage ratio of the new Norco Sight is not heavy-rider friendly. Having the same weight as you, I had one ordered until I dove in deeper on suspension design and realised that it is not an option.

I had to manage the same decision as you last month and had the same options: Raaw, Privateer and in my case teh Sentinel.

At the end I have a Privateer frame ordered, it has all I want and it's a bargain at that price point!
flag gafoto
Posted: Feb 9, 2020 at 12:36 Quote
skalatskiy wrote:
jordanredshaw wrote:
gafoto wrote:
I'm a very similar body size to you and was in the same shopping boat until recently. My top 3 contenders were the Privateer 161, Madonna V2 and the Banshee Titan. I also considered the Bird Aeris AM9. I went with the Madonna because of the possible length of seatpost insertion and the rocker link tuned for heavier riders. Also it looks pretty slick. The other factors like geometry and quality of the frame seem to be fairly similar between those (i.e. they will take a beating.

Pole makes big metal bikes too though their prices make the Madonna look like a bargain.

I love that Raaw made the big guy rocker - which is a definite selling point. I also feel like I need to include the 2020 Norco Sight in my search as the geo is pretty close and the pricing is incredible (for the aluminium version).


Sorry to tell you that but the leverage ratio of the new Norco Sight is not heavy-rider friendly. Having the same weight as you, I had one ordered until I dove in deeper on suspension design and realised that it is not an option.

I had to manage the same decision as you last month and had the same options: Raaw, Privateer and in my case teh Sentinel.

At the end I have a Privateer frame ordered, it has all I want and it's a bargain at that price point!

Post when you get that thing spinning. There's so little information out there on these things. You hope Pinkbike will do a full review but who knows when that will happen.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 9, 2020 at 12:56 Quote
gafoto wrote:
Post when you get that thing spinning. There's so little information out there on these things. You hope Pinkbike will do a full review but who knows when that will happen.

Enduro Magazine just published a quick review of the 161. My take on the review:

• It's long, stable, and stiff.
• Excels on the descents, but also climbs well.
• Steep seat-tube angle is great for "winch and plummet" riding, but a bit much for flat terrain.
• Test bike had a Medium compression damper tune that worked for very aggressive riding, but a Low tune (which is what the bikes will come with) will suit more riders.
• Lacking some attention to detail, compared to the Madonna, which you might expect with the price difference.
flag skalatskiy
Posted: Feb 10, 2020 at 0:30 Quote
For those who are interested on kinematics, here I found the info of the privateer's frame, until they published officially on their website. I confirmed this info with Privateer itself (via chat):

https://singletrackworld.com/2019/07/exclusive-sneak-peek-prototype-fs-enduro-bike-from-privateer-bikes
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 10, 2020 at 9:09 Quote
Good find. As always, I caution a couple of things when comparing charts of pedaling anti-squat and brake squat (anti-rise):

1. The numbers are not absolute!
2. The numbers can change dramatically in different sprockets. A bike may have 90% anti-squat in the first sprocket and 200% or more in the top sprocket. Chainring size also matters.
3. Even if you compare bikes in the same sprocket combination, the chosen location of the centre of mass - which is never published - affects the charts.
flag jordanredshaw
O+ FL
Posted: Feb 11, 2020 at 10:32 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
gafoto wrote:
Post when you get that thing spinning. There's so little information out there on these things. You hope Pinkbike will do a full review but who knows when that will happen.

Enduro Magazine just published a quick review. My take on the review:

• It's long, stable, and stiff.
• Excels on the descents, but also climbs well.
• Steep seat-tube angle is great for "winch and plummet" riding, but a bit much for flat terrain.
• Test bike had a Medium compression damper tune that worked for very aggressive riding, but a Low tune (which is what the bikes will come with) will suit more riders.
• Lacking some attention to detail, compared to the Madonna, which you might expect with the price difference.

I put a (fully refundable) reservation in for when the next Madonna's come in stock but not absolutely sold on that yet. When the review came out for the Sight, the issue for heavier riders was definitely a turnoff. My only concern with the Privateer is that this is V1, and I'd be worried that there will be kinks that they'll need to work out.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 11, 2020 at 22:32 Quote
Your concerns are sensible, but maybe unnecessary:

• I have no doubt you'd be happy with a Madonna. Really, what's not to like? ... other than the price, maybe.
• A firmer damper tune for the Sight's shock would solve that problem.
• The Privateer was designed by an experienced designer and built in the same factory as the Madonna. It would be surprising if there were serious problems, though not impossible.


Unrelated:

Your saddle angle is "interesting" - even by my standards! Razz
flag jordanredshaw
O+ FL
Posted: Feb 12, 2020 at 7:35 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Your concerns are sensible, but maybe unnecessary:

• I have no doubt you'd be happy with a Madonna. Really, what's not to like? ... other than the price, maybe.
• A firmer damper tune for the Sight's shock would solve that problem.
• The Privateer was designed by an experienced designer and built in the same factory as the Madonna. It would be surprising if there were serious problems, though not impossible.


Unrelated:

Your saddle angle is "interesting" - even by my standards! Razz

The angle of the photo makes it look worse than it actually is, but yes, it's slammed forward and the angle is definitely steep (not for everyone, I'm sure) to help me keep the front down without the nose of the saddle trying to get you-know-where.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 12, 2020 at 7:44 Quote
I used to have my saddles tilted sharply downward. Still do, to a lesser degree, and my current mountain saddle looks more extreme than it is due to the doesn't-snag-your-shorts downward tilt of the nose. Saddles with a broad and deep central channel have allowed me to be comfortable with a flatter angle, especially on the road bike, which has reduced the shear forces in my skin and forward slippage, greatly improving comfort. Might work for you, too.
flag Endurip
Posted: Feb 21, 2020 at 10:58 Quote
I was in your situation and at 90% sure to order Privateer 161. I wanted an all out dh enduro, but then came to the conclusion that a little more playfulness and pedal friendly bike would be better for me. Studying geo and every possible review (and a few more) the new Propain Tyee 29" came out as the most potent bike. After reading testers comments at german forums two preferred it over the Raaw Madonna v2, who reviewers from enduromag sais is ahead of the Privateer 161.
Other reviewer said that Tyee is much easier to access than Megatower and the new Spez Enduro, and it is the best pedaling 160mm shock bike to this date. The criticism was that the suspension has a lot of support and not as plush as the Raaw for example, but should be better with a coil damper.

So I ordered Tyee 29" Al with coil and lyrik up front. The future will show if I made the right call, but if I where you I´d have a look at the Tyee.
flag MarcusBrody
O+ FL
Posted: Feb 21, 2020 at 14:19 Quote
Endurip wrote:
I was in your situation and at 90% sure to order Privateer 161. I wanted an all out dh enduro, but then came to the conclusion that a little more playfulness and pedal friendly bike would be better for me. Studying geo and every possible review (and a few more) the new Propain Tyee 29" came out as the most potent bike. After reading testers comments at german forums two preferred it over the Raaw Madonna v2, who reviewers from enduromag sais is ahead of the Privateer 161.
Other reviewer said that Tyee is much easier to access than Megatower and the new Spez Enduro, and it is the best pedaling 160mm shock bike to this date. The criticism was that the suspension has a lot of support and not as plush as the Raaw for example, but should be better with a coil damper.

So I ordered Tyee 29" Al with coil and lyrik up front. The future will show if I made the right call, but if I where you I´d have a look at the Tyee.

These are almost the exact bikes I've been wondering about too and the Tyee has been placing high on my list. I'm in the US and you can't get Propains yet, but I'll be eager to see if they are soon available as is claimed.

I'm curious about the coil. If the early stroke firmness is due to the high antisquat, will a coil make much of a difference?
flag MarcusBrody
O+ FL
Posted: Feb 21, 2020 at 14:24 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
gafoto wrote:
Post when you get that thing spinning. There's so little information out there on these things. You hope Pinkbike will do a full review but who knows when that will happen.

Enduro Magazine just published a quick review of the 161. My take on the review:

• It's long, stable, and stiff.
• Excels on the descents, but also climbs well.
• Steep seat-tube angle is great for "winch and plummet" riding, but a bit much for flat terrain.
• Test bike had a Medium compression damper tune that worked for very aggressive riding, but a Low tune (which is what the bikes will come with) will suit more riders.
• Lacking some attention to detail, compared to the Madonna, which you might expect with the price difference.

I can't find this review for some reason. Anyone have a link?
flag skalatskiy
Posted: Feb 21, 2020 at 14:47 Quote
MarcusBrody wrote:
R-M-R wrote:
gafoto wrote:
Post when you get that thing spinning. There's so little information out there on these things. You hope Pinkbike will do a full review but who knows when that will happen.

Enduro Magazine just published a quick review of the 161. My take on the review:

• It's long, stable, and stiff.
• Excels on the descents, but also climbs well.
• Steep seat-tube angle is great for "winch and plummet" riding, but a bit much for flat terrain.
• Test bike had a Medium compression damper tune that worked for very aggressive riding, but a Low tune (which is what the bikes will come with) will suit more riders.
• Lacking some attention to detail, compared to the Madonna, which you might expect with the price difference.

I can't find this review for some reason. Anyone have a link?

It is not on their website yet, right now you can only find it in their digital magazine: they have an app that you need to download and then you can see and read it. BTW, the whole app/magazine experience is soooo good! https://enduro-mtb.com/en/magazine/

Endurip wrote:
I was in your situation and at 90% sure to order Privateer 161. I wanted an all out dh enduro, but then came to the conclusion that a little more playfulness and pedal friendly bike would be better for me. Studying geo and every possible review (and a few more) the new Propain Tyee 29" came out as the most potent bike. After reading testers comments at german forums two preferred it over the Raaw Madonna v2, who reviewers from enduromag sais is ahead of the Privateer 161.
Other reviewer said that Tyee is much easier to access than Megatower and the new Spez Enduro, and it is the best pedaling 160mm shock bike to this date. The criticism was that the suspension has a lot of support and not as plush as the Raaw for example, but should be better with a coil damper.

So I ordered Tyee 29" Al with coil and lyrik up front. The future will show if I made the right call, but if I where you I´d have a look at the Tyee.

It really looks nice, and for sure it works well but, as a heavy rider, I would say that it would not work exactly well for heavier riders: the average Leverage Ratio is so high, in the same way as Norco Sight. I'm pretty sure R-M-R could add more info to it!
flag MarcusBrody
O+ FL
Posted: Feb 22, 2020 at 12:49 Quote
skalatskiy wrote:
MarcusBrody wrote:
R-M-R wrote:


Enduro Magazine just published a quick review of the 161. My take on the review:

• It's long, stable, and stiff.
• Excels on the descents, but also climbs well.
• Steep seat-tube angle is great for "winch and plummet" riding, but a bit much for flat terrain.
• Test bike had a Medium compression damper tune that worked for very aggressive riding, but a Low tune (which is what the bikes will come with) will suit more riders.
• Lacking some attention to detail, compared to the Madonna, which you might expect with the price difference.

I can't find this review for some reason. Anyone have a link?

It is not on their website yet, right now you can only find it in their digital magazine: they have an app that you need to download and then you can see and read it. BTW, the whole app/magazine experience is soooo good! https://enduro-mtb.com/en/magazine/

Endurip wrote:
I was in your situation and at 90% sure to order Privateer 161. I wanted an all out dh enduro, but then came to the conclusion that a little more playfulness and pedal friendly bike would be better for me. Studying geo and every possible review (and a few more) the new Propain Tyee 29" came out as the most potent bike. After reading testers comments at german forums two preferred it over the Raaw Madonna v2, who reviewers from enduromag sais is ahead of the Privateer 161.
Other reviewer said that Tyee is much easier to access than Megatower and the new Spez Enduro, and it is the best pedaling 160mm shock bike to this date. The criticism was that the suspension has a lot of support and not as plush as the Raaw for example, but should be better with a coil damper.

So I ordered Tyee 29" Al with coil and lyrik up front. The future will show if I made the right call, but if I where you I´d have a look at the Tyee.

It really looks nice, and for sure it works well but, as a heavy rider, I would say that it would not work exactly well for heavier riders: the average Leverage Ratio is so high, in the same way as Norco Sight. I'm pretty sure R-M-R could add more info to it!

Thanks. I downloaded the and while I still can't find it, I really like the app. I like Enduro magazine in general. I like that they're willing to do large group tests and actually pick real winners and call out the bikes they think are sub par. I do wish that they used control tires though.

As to whether the Tyee would work for someone that's heavy: I think that it might work better than you'd guess. The Singletrackworld reviewer was 86kg on a 500lb spring and despite initial worries, felt that it was a fine spring weight. That leaves plenty of room above that for stiffer springs for heavier folks.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Feb 22, 2020 at 17:02 Quote
There's always the option to get a firmer damper tune. That and a sufficiently stiff spring will do it.

 


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