Minion DHR II 29x2.6 measures 2.4?

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Minion DHR II 29x2.6 measures 2.4?
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Posted: Mar 14, 2020 at 19:54 Quote
gotohe11carolina wrote:
Bontrager tires have been pretty true to width for me. That said, why the necessity for 2.6? There are plenty of 2.6 tires with wooden sidewalls that offer no real benefit over good 2.4 tires. If 2.6 tires do it for you then by all means but the main benefits I’ve seen are mainly in ride comfort with the extra air volume. Everything else like tracking, side lug grip and tread profiles seem to suffer.

For personal experience I found the 2.6 maxxis forekaster to be the harshest riding tire that lacked any semblance of grip in anything besides hero dirt. I’ve gone to a Magic Mary 2.4 if front with a Bonty se5 in the rear and couldn’t be happier.

As a heavier rider, the pressures I ride on bigger tires are the same pressures regular riders run on smaller tires. I have to run smaller tires at high psi in order for them to not get crushed, so I like a tire with more volume.

Posted: Mar 15, 2020 at 4:55 Quote
Fair enough, I’m riding at 220 fully kitted. I run 30 in the rear and 28 in the front. I have been going backwards though and find running 2.4 tires on a 25mm ID rim gives me a good support and an excellent shape that lets me utilize the side lugs with the bike leaned over without the tires washing away. This is probably the main reason I’ve never liked the DHF. Once I actually put air in it there is a huge gap in the tread that gives a wildly inconsistent feeling when I lean it over.

Posted: Mar 15, 2020 at 11:31 Quote
gotohe11carolina wrote:
[ ... ] I found the 2.6 maxxis forekaster to be the harshest riding tire that lacked any semblance of grip in anything besides hero dirt. I’ve gone to a Magic Mary 2.4 if front with a Bonty se5 in the rear and couldn’t be happier.

You're comparing a light-duty "trail" tire with shallow lugs and hard rubber to a couple of DH treads with softer compounds. I think your experience reflects a preference for superior tread pattern and compounds more than width. If your 2.6" tires were mounted on 25 mm rims, that's probably also a factor: a 1.5:1 ratio of casing width to rim width seems to work well and 2.6" on 25 mm (1") rims is about 2.6:1.

I've been steadily up-sizing my tires for the past few years and 2.6" is really working for me - with good tread patterns and compounds.

Posted: Mar 15, 2020 at 20:26 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
gotohe11carolina wrote:
[ ... ] I found the 2.6 maxxis forekaster to be the harshest riding tire that lacked any semblance of grip in anything besides hero dirt. I’ve gone to a Magic Mary 2.4 if front with a Bonty se5 in the rear and couldn’t be happier.

You're comparing a light-duty "trail" tire with shallow lugs and hard rubber to a couple of DH treads with softer compounds. I think your experience reflects a preference for superior tread pattern and compounds more than width. If your 2.6" tires were mounted on 25 mm rims, that's probably also a factor: a 1.5:1 ratio of casing width to rim width seems to work well and 2.6" on 25 mm (1") rims is about 2.6:1.

I've been steadily up-sizing my tires for the past few years and 2.6" is really working for me - with good tread patterns and compounds.

I'm really not interested in competing with you RMR. You're clearly one of the more well informed people on this website and your opinions carry a lot of weight. I'll attempt to explain myself a little more clearly.

I ran the 2.6 Maxxis on a 30id rim. I didn't enjoy the ride. Its an opinion and my experience nothing more. I will cede the MM and forekaster aren't remotely a comparable tread pattern and the soft addix and maxx speed aren't really comparable either, but Schwalbe 2.4 snakeskin and Maxxis EXO 2.6 are a pretty direct comparison. I also ran a Michelin Force AM 2.6 (gum x i think and no clue which sidewall construction) which was a wonderful tire with great sidewall compliance and rode very well. Ride quality seems more dependent on sidewall contruction, width rather than compound and tread pattern. It is not independent of compound or tread pattern, but seems to be more tied to the sidewall construction and width.

I brought this up because I was more interested in his need to move to a 2.6 and his insistence on it being a 2.6. In his case he's moving up from a 2.5 WT. I was wanting isolate why. Was he hunting more comfort from the increased air volume, or better contact patch from the lowered PSI to try and improve grip. If he's hunting more grip there are other ways to find grip other than size, be it compound, tread pattern or air pressure. As a heavy fella myself I can say it has taken a long time to nail down my tire performance. My weight means some of the assumptions of the average rider don't bear out for me. I can't run 21psi F and 23 R like my friend at 150lbs. I get too much tread deformation and the slip angles increase too much and make the tire feel inprecise.

All that said we've gotten way off in the weeds in relation to his original question. Most Maxxis tire's I've owned have been close enough to size that it didn't concern me. Should he call shenanigans in his case, yes probably. He's a customer and if he's dissatisfied with the product he should voice his concern.
Now, as for other tires that measure true to width and had an enjoyable ride quality to me. I've enjoyed Bontrager SE4 2.6 and 2.4 and SE5 2.4 and both have measured true to width. WTB Ranger plus tires, 2.8s, measured close enough to width that I wasn't concerned. Vittoria tires, Goma 2,4 and Barzo 2.35, measured larger than advertised which caused some consternation on an already tight frame clearance. The Michelin 2.6 tire was true to size as well and I very much enjoyed them.

Posted: Mar 15, 2020 at 22:23 Quote
Hey now, we're not fighting. At least, I didn't intend for it to be like that. Just wanted to point out there were other variables in play.

Sounded like you tested the 2.6" tires on the 25 mm rim you mentioned. Now that you mention the 2.6" Forecaster was on a 30 mm rim, that's a better test of it. My own impressions of 2.6" on 30 mm rims were mixed, then became almost fully positive on 36 mm rims - still experience occasional lateral collapse on the rear, but not frequent or severe enough to significantly diminish the overall performance.

I agree EXO and Snakeskin casings are analogous and I agree large tires are difficult to stabilize, especially for big guys. This is why I hope to experiment with something like a 2.6" casing on a super wide rim - maybe 50 mm - but this will require a wider tread than what's currently available and I haven't been able to talk anyone into molding a 2.8" or 3" tread onto a 2.6" casing. Until then, we can:

1. Use the widest rim that works with available tread patterns, which is one of the reasons I'm fond of Kenda
2. Use casings with some sort of sidewall support - ex. "apex inserts", as a couple companies are calling them

Also agree with you it's important to determine a person's underlying issue, such as traction, comfort, rolling resistance, etc. As you indicated, maybe 2.6" isn't necessary to meet Explodo's needs, though it's improved all those things for me, so my first approach would be to mitigate the drawbacks of 2.6", rather than seek ways to make smaller casings acceptable. Still, I see the value in exploring both options.

As you said, something is amiss about the sizing of Explodo's tires. Definitely a warranty issue if it's a manufacturing error. If Maxxis downsized the casing to tune the stability or tread profile, they need to know that's not an acceptable workaround. Either way, I agree they ought to go back.

Thank you for adding some personal experience with relevant tires. The only thing I'll add is my experience with the 2.6" Vittoria Martello: slightly undersized and a very square tread profile. Worked okay on a 30 mm rim, but not acceptable as a front tire on 36 mm rims. Currently using it as a rear tire and not thrilled about the side lugs almost fully contacting the ground when upright (i.e. not leaned over).

Posted: Mar 16, 2020 at 9:27 Quote
Sorry, a little edgy standing at the edge of the apocalypse. The thought of the next few weeks at work in a tyvek suit with a PAPR has probably amped me a little more than I should be.

Posted: Mar 16, 2020 at 11:23 Quote
Here's your update:

Maxxis says to let them sit at max pressure for 48 hours. After that, measure at the shoulder knob. If it's still more than 5mm less than advertised width then submit a warranty claim.

The DHR stretched from a 2.4 to a 2.44 in 10 hours of 40 psi. I have a hard time believing that if I let it sit for another 38 hours it would continue to grow up to anything close to 2.6.

.

Posted: Mar 16, 2020 at 14:40 Quote
gotohe11carolina wrote:
Sorry, a little edgy standing at the edge of the apocalypse.

Strange times. Feeling uneasy, myself.


Explodo wrote:
Here's your update:

Maxxis says to let them sit at max pressure for 48 hours. After that, measure at the shoulder knob. If it's still more than 5mm less than advertised width then submit a warranty claim.

Thank you for the update.

That's a poor response from Maxxis. Width should be measured at the casing.

I've pulled up Maxxis' CAD files for the 2.6" DHR2 and DHF. Both are 65 mm at the casing and the lugs, measured on a 35 mm rim, with ±2 mm tolerance. If you've measured 2.4" (61 mm) on a 35 mm rim, that's off by double the tolerance.

Posted: Mar 22, 2020 at 9:14 Quote
As a further update, I mounted up a 29x2.5 Assegai yesterday and it's coming out to be 2.47". I'll go 2.6 next time around since my front 2.5 DHF still has another year of life in it.

Posted: Mar 22, 2020 at 9:39 Quote
Good to hear the dimensions are back on track!

Would you consider putting the Assagai on the front and DHF on the rear?

Posted: Mar 22, 2020 at 10:37 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Good to hear the dimensions are back on track!

Would you consider putting the Assagai on the front and DHF on the rear?

As I've not ridden the Assegai other than in my driveway, I wouldn't yet. I'm waiting to see how it feels in real riding before I decide further. I tried the Assegai since Minaar said that the High Roller is his favorite tire. I love the High Roller, so I figured I'd try a tire designed by a guy who also loves it.

Posted: Mar 22, 2020 at 11:26 Quote
That's reasonable. I'm a fan of the Assegai on the front due to slightly taller lugs.

Posted: Mar 26, 2020 at 3:00 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
That's reasonable. I'm a fan of the Assegai on the front due to slightly taller lugs.

So I’m in the market for a new set of tires and the only brand I’m familiar with is e13. I’m looking at dhf/aggressor combo. I have 30iw rims so my question to you guys is which would a 2.5 or 2.6 be a be better fit for my wheels? Looking for the most traction. Will I get optimal tread rap with the 2.6 or would that be better used on a 35iw?

Posted: Mar 26, 2020 at 3:18 Quote
2.6" goes well with 35 mm rims. With 30 mm, I'd put you on the 2.5". Any combination of these widths will work, this is just what I find to be optimal.

Posted: Mar 31, 2020 at 8:33 Quote
The Assegai is an okay tire. I'm not going to replace it right away, but I might not ever buy another one. The Assegai does the one thing that I most don't care for in a tire, and that's have noticable side lug rollover.

It's not horrible rollover like what drove me away from Continental tires years ago.

It's nicely controlled and predictable rollover. If you force the side lugs into flexing on pavement with a hard turn you get a very predictable and controlled shift in the tracking of the tire.

The problem is that it's the sort of rollover that has your tires popping off of rocks instead of clinging on. You can hear and feel it while riding. When your tires can't cling to rocks, but quickly shift off of edges, that's when sidewalls get messed up. To be fair, it may be that the tire is clinging better than others and holding on just a bit longer instead of smoothly shifting off right away, but the sudden shifts are worrisome.

It might actually be fine as a front tire since the loading isn't quite as high in the front. I may find out if it gets shifted to the front eventually. It may also turn into a better tire with a little wear. The lugs are very tall, and once they've worn down a bit it might drastically change how the tire performs, in which case I may end up liking them.

Just my experience so far.


 
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