Coil shock faceoff

Author Message
Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 7:40 Quote
I have a Ohlins TTX and a Push.
Why? Cause thats what came on the bikes.

I love the Ohlins. It is on a 2018 Stumpy with an Ohlins Coil 36. Fantastic bike. It gets so much hate, but I just can't seem to part ways with it.

I have had no issues with Ohlins CS. It is based in NC I believe for the US. I sent in the 36 for the EVO upgrade and they replaced my uppers for free. Reasonable service prices and fast turn around.

Push is on a 2019 Wreck. Amazing shock especially paired with Evil's linkage. The circuits came set up with a DH and a Climb. When it is time to service the shock I will probably have them change it to a DH/Trail setting because the bike climbs so damn well in the DH setting I rarely if ever use the Climb circuit.

The Ohlins actually feels a little more poppy to me, but there are so many other factors including the difference in travel. 135mm vs 161mm.

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 7:47 Quote
yourrealdad wrote:
I have a Ohlins TTX and a Push.
Why? Cause thats what came on the bikes.

I love the Ohlins. It is on a 2018 Stumpy with an Ohlins Coil 36. Fantastic bike. It gets so much hate, but I just can't seem to part ways with it.

I have had no issues with Ohlins CS. It is based in NC I believe for the US. I sent in the 36 for the EVO upgrade and they replaced my uppers for free. Reasonable service prices and fast turn around.

Push is on a 2019 Wreck. Amazing shock especially paired with Evil's linkage. The circuits came set up with a DH and a Climb. When it is time to service the shock I will probably have them change it to a DH/Trail setting because the bike climbs so damn well in the DH setting I rarely if ever use the Climb circuit.

The Ohlins actually feels a little more poppy to me, but there are so many other factors including the difference in travel. 135mm vs 161mm.

Until this forum, I’d never heard the hate against Ohlins. I really enjoy mine. Is the hate based on experience or the theory behind the design?

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 7:56 Quote
Lando406 wrote:
yourrealdad wrote:
I have a Ohlins TTX and a Push.
Why? Cause thats what came on the bikes.

I love the Ohlins. It is on a 2018 Stumpy with an Ohlins Coil 36. Fantastic bike. It gets so much hate, but I just can't seem to part ways with it.

I have had no issues with Ohlins CS. It is based in NC I believe for the US. I sent in the 36 for the EVO upgrade and they replaced my uppers for free. Reasonable service prices and fast turn around.

Push is on a 2019 Wreck. Amazing shock especially paired with Evil's linkage. The circuits came set up with a DH and a Climb. When it is time to service the shock I will probably have them change it to a DH/Trail setting because the bike climbs so damn well in the DH setting I rarely if ever use the Climb circuit.

The Ohlins actually feels a little more poppy to me, but there are so many other factors including the difference in travel. 135mm vs 161mm.

Until this forum, I’d never heard the hate against Ohlins. I really enjoy mine. Is the hate based on experience or the theory behind the design?

I think most of it stemmed from reliability issues, I've never seen a complaint saying the performance itself isn't good, it's always been stuff like leaks, faulty adjusters, spherical bearings popping out of eyelets, that kind of thing...

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 8:39 Quote
Uchwmdr wrote:
Lando406 wrote:
DHX2 vs DVO Jade vs MRP Hazard vs DB coil—who ya got and why?
A piece of advice for canadians/americans: stick to usa brands. Ext and ohlins are based in eu and custommer support and everything is a bit complicated.
Here is my experience with this face off.
DVO :I was looking for a new coil shock for an enduro bike and my top contenders were the dvo jade, the dhx2 and eventually the cane creek. First of all, i want it to be clear that i am a huge dvo fan, i have many of their products and they work amazing in my opinion. They are rather plush and very active and essentialy do what a shock is ment to do: absorb impacts. They use bladders in their shocks that give them that juicy slurpy sound and make them very very responsive to even the smallest bumps. Ive always thought that a dvo jade is one of the most sensitive coil shocks. However, this sensitivity and the lack of climb switch might be a bit of problem for bikes with anti squat values bellow 100%. That is why i would ask you what frame do you need the shock for? If you have anti squat around 110-160 then the jade is one of your best choices here.
FOX DHX2: still havent tried it but ordered it, just because i wanted to try something from fox (never had anything from the brand). I did thorough research comparing it to the very very similar cane creek and came to the conclusion that the fox is a superior shock. There was a vorsprung video where he compared the both twin tube designs.
Here are pros and cons im my op for jade vs dhx2:
JADE: very active, extremely supple, a bit easier to set up, a bit cheaper, extreme customer support, very thick piston rod, but no climb switch
FOX: very adjustable, has climb switch, a bit more expensive, a bit skinnier piston rod ( not the best lateral stiffness if you need it for a long shock size).
Both shocks look amazing and work amazing in my op.
As for mrp, wouldnt compare them to the previous 2 :х

i am not a huge fan of the monster green bro shock built by x fusion or suntor or someother shit hole then styled at Diva cough DVO headquarters here in california.

the slurp has nothing to do with the bladder and everything to do with the needle adjuster design

yes bladders theoretically have less friction than an IFP, but what most people neglect to understand is two things, the shaft has massive advantage over the ifp, as in if the ifp has 10x more area than the shaft, the ifp moves 1/10th as far as the shaft. next is this "OHHHH MAN its an oring and gas charged has to have friction" um well, the pressure is the same on both sides of said oring, imposing very very little friction.

dont believe me
how about a real dyno test
http://husaberg.org/wiki/bladder-vs-piston-pds-shock-absorbers

need more?
an ifp thats threaded lets you do a way way way way better job bleeding the shock, infact ill even claim an ifp shock could be bled better manually than a vacuum bled shock. I have my reasons....

ok next
the thick piston rod? really that gets you hard?
moto shocks are around 50mm do you see them going around with a 30mm shaft? no they are 16 or sometimes 18mm
guess what theres a ratio at play
the dvo has a rather small body which is a peculiar choce, then filling that body with a proportionally gigantic shaft has the following effects.

Reduces flow across main piston (aka mid valve) in compression and rebound directions, as the rod enters there is more volume it is displacing rather than flowing through, AND your stuck with shims with a larger ID which can create limited options, on the rebound side you also flowing less fluid, which can make it hard to make small changes because even small changes have a LARGE effect because of the reduced flow and reduced shim lift.

Increases flow through the high speed valve(base valve), well now most of the compression damping work is being done at the base valve, while this does lower the required gas charge, it is typically best practice to share the damping dutys as bv only dampers tend to exhibit more delay, and again although the flow is increased over small shaft units, the flow here compared to the main piston makes tuning a shim stack with available shims a coarser operation with less options then possible on a shock that relies more on the main piston (mid valve) for majority of its damping.


last, that friction you talked about, then go back and say how cool the big shaft is
well you see, the shaft seal drag is a much much greater portion of a shocks friction than an IFP. guess what... for every 1mm additional shaft size you get hefty return of 3.1416x more circumfrence for the seal to drag upon. remember that seal is energized by oil pressure, not just dragging along...........

I have plenty to bash about twin tube systems too, dont for a second think my hate is soley focoused on DVO

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 8:45 Quote
I have a DVO Jade on my Jeffsy and I absolutely love it! It is my first ever coil shock so I have nothing to compare it so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I like how easy it is to service although doing the bleed can be pretty messy. The performance is incredible. Surprisingly I am the most impressed with the DVO Jade on technical climbs. My rear tire just sticks to everything, rocks, roots, I seem to never slip out. The consistency and feel when descending is amazing too. It's just so sensitive and feels so solid. I thought a coil shock would be squishy, bobby, blow through it's travel and just be too soft. That was flawed thinking because after a few rides I realized the Jade is supportive, has no noticeable pedal bob on my YT Jeffsy, and the increase in climbing traction actually led me to a few personal records on some climbs (something that people will say is not possible on a heavy coil, without a climb switch...)

I did have to spend a bit of time tuning the HSC, LSC, and rebound but if you start with DVO's base settings and ride the same trail a few times you'll get it dialed in just a few hours. Then just record your settings and you're good to go. I will never go back to an air shock.

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 8:57 Quote
According to the guy at Vorsprung in theory twin tubes can potentially be the better design and also cheaper to produce, it's not so much that twin tube is inferior as it is that the current execution is not the best, poppet valves ect and the only reason Fox has done it is to find the cheapest way they can produce a shock whilst appearing to have a ton of adjustability. I don't know much about the 2020 iterations so can't comment.

Regarding performance being incredible of the DVO, tbh almost any coil shock feels a shit load better than most air shocks, I bought a knackered dhx5 off Ebay with leaky seals and it has next to no adjustements apart from pro pedal and rebound and it still slaughtered the float x I had on the bike. The Fox X2 air although poppet style is actually a fairly decent shock, at least in terms of break away force and suppleness but aside from that almost any coil feels great as long as you are not a pansy about weight savings.

Additionally a bit off topic I was chatting to Paul Aston regarding gearbox bikes and suspension benefits and about the Nicolai Geometron ect and he said there is large gains to be had there too.

However long travel gearbox bikes are few and far between, they don't go above 160mm in case of the Zerode and only 150mm in case of the Geometron, but what he did have to tell me about is a cool device he uses on his G1 to give much less pedal kickback and feel closer to a gearbox bike. This device I never heard of before is called an Ochain. He uses this and a 250 x 75 EXT shock on his Nicolai G1 for a whopping 210mm travel and low kickback... Crazy

https://www.ochain.bike/

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 9:42 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
According to the guy at Vorsprung in theory twin tubes can potentially be the better design and also cheaper to produce, it's not so much that twin tube is inferior as it is that the current execution is not the best, poppet valves ect and the only reason Fox has done it is to find the cheapest way they can produce a shock whilst appearing to have a ton of adjustability. I don't know much about the 2020 iterations so can't comment.

If... you built a shock with near full body size "external" pistons, you could run almost no res pressure which would reduce seal drag, and i guess you could easily implement, a shim lift high speed relief, vvc, ring loaded shim preload or dished piston preload system rather easily. But this would be a pretty bulky unit
Maybe ditch the res by going thrushaft....


Fox's new x2 from looking at the outside, the comp assembly is much larger,
And the rebound stack is in a traditional location, but instead of a common bleed rebound a vvc assembly runs up the shaft to augment rebound shim stack stiffness, i expect it to be more linear (im not a fan of degressive rebound) the lsr remains in the standard twin tube location even though the hsr assembly moved back home..... the lsr didn't go back because the vvc is in its way. I expect that all the changes will be positive

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 12:49 Quote
What about FAST...anyone know much about their shocks?

https://www.fast-suspension.com/en/

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 13:22 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
What about FAST...anyone know much about their shocks?

https://www.fast-suspension.com/en/

id have to see nudez of her or strip her down
but she looks like she could be hiding some nice stuff in there....

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 13:31 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
Lando406 wrote:
yourrealdad wrote:
I have a Ohlins TTX and a Push.
Why? Cause thats what came on the bikes.

I love the Ohlins. It is on a 2018 Stumpy with an Ohlins Coil 36. Fantastic bike. It gets so much hate, but I just can't seem to part ways with it.

I have had no issues with Ohlins CS. It is based in NC I believe for the US. I sent in the 36 for the EVO upgrade and they replaced my uppers for free. Reasonable service prices and fast turn around.

Push is on a 2019 Wreck. Amazing shock especially paired with Evil's linkage. The circuits came set up with a DH and a Climb. When it is time to service the shock I will probably have them change it to a DH/Trail setting because the bike climbs so damn well in the DH setting I rarely if ever use the Climb circuit.

The Ohlins actually feels a little more poppy to me, but there are so many other factors including the difference in travel. 135mm vs 161mm.

Sorry, I meant the Stumpy gets a lot of hate. The specific bike not just that it is a Spesh. The Ohlins mostly gets hate from what I have read for its spring rates being off and over damped. Other than that is has been a great performer.

Until this forum, I’d never heard the hate against Ohlins. I really enjoy mine. Is the hate based on experience or the theory behind the design?

I think most of it stemmed from reliability issues, I've never seen a complaint saying the performance itself isn't good, it's always been stuff like leaks, faulty adjusters, spherical bearings popping out of eyelets, that kind of thing...

Posted: Jul 30, 2020 at 13:38 Quote
englertracing wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:
What about FAST...anyone know much about their shocks?

https://www.fast-suspension.com/en/

id have to see nudez of her or strip her down
but she looks like she could be hiding some nice stuff in there....

Well if you can speak French or like nude drawings on a whiteboard there is a 2 hour video they have produced.

https://youtu.be/Rk-wX9NdHPM

Or here is another french video but with actual nudes of the internals

https://youtu.be/MVS6jlFy5Xs

Posted: Jul 31, 2020 at 21:03 Quote
yourrealdad wrote:
I have a Ohlins TTX and a Push.
Why? Cause thats what came on the bikes.

I love the Ohlins. It is on a 2018 Stumpy with an Ohlins Coil 36. Fantastic bike. It gets so much hate, but I just can't seem to part ways with it.

I have had no issues with Ohlins CS. It is based in NC I believe for the US. I sent in the 36 for the EVO upgrade and they replaced my uppers for free. Reasonable service prices and fast turn around.

Push is on a 2019 Wreck. Amazing shock especially paired with Evil's linkage. The circuits came set up with a DH and a Climb. When it is time to service the shock I will probably have them change it to a DH/Trail setting because the bike climbs so damn well in the DH setting I rarely if ever use the Climb circuit.

The Ohlins actually feels a little more poppy to me, but there are so many other factors including the difference in travel. 135mm vs 161mm.

Just so you know, on the Push shock you can easily adjust one of the circuits to a more trail oriented setting. All you do is adjust lsc and hsc..
they told me if I wanted a more trail oriented circuit instead of climb switch to run 8 LSC and 10 HSC.

Posted: 3 days ago Quote
Yeah they told me the same thing. Not the numbers of LSC and HSC, but just to adjust them.

I was just saying it works so well on the Wreck that I will have them change it when it needs to be serviced.

I have had great CS with PUSH so far.

Posted: 2 days ago Quote
yourrealdad wrote:
Yeah they told me the same thing. Not the numbers of LSC and HSC, but just to adjust them.

I was just saying it works so well on the Wreck that I will have them change it when it needs to be serviced.

I have had great CS with PUSH so far.

Still not sure what you’re saying..? I don’t think they adjust it any other way than thru hsc and lsc

Posted: 1 days ago Quote
I assume that they are changing the shim stack or whatever they are using for a different compression setting.


 
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