Do not buy or sell to Ronufoh *Scammer

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Do not buy or sell to Ronufoh *Scammer
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Posted: Oct 15, 2020 at 10:53 Quote
As Clifford has informed, I have decided not to send the frame and parts I purchased off of him back for a full refund. I am disappointed that he is able to 'win'.

Do note that Paypal did not side with him, my claim would have been denied completely and I would not have had the right to return my items purchased if this was the case. Paypal's decision to allow me to return the items purchased for a full refund happens when the buyer and seller can't come to conclusion or resolution, they are not able to force a seller to reimburse a buyer any amount. I did not and do not ask privately to return items as I do not believe this is within the scope of what private sellers should be responsible for, this is what shops and businesses are for. I try to work on a reasonable amount of compensation if the situation calls for it.

In this dealing, I had asked for $100 which I believe is a fair amount. Normally I would be amenable to negotiating the compensation if the seller feels the request is unfair. But Clifford's immediate attacks on me and offering me only $65/60/0/0.05 because he 'found' me to be a thief and scammer are unfounded, and not a reasonable basis of negotiation. His insistence of me admitting to something that I am not/have not done before willing to refund me even $80 is a bullying/intimidation tactic.

As his recent messages have indicated, I have no confidence that he will accept the frame and parts back in the condition they were sold to me 2 months ago so Paypal will refund me. He's indicated that he could counter file a Paypal claim and back up the process even further. I don't want to be without my money or a frame and parts that I had paid for already, so I'll suck up the loss in costs to rebuild shock and get the bearings working to an acceptable level -- my lesson learnt.

Thanks for reading along, I know it's difficult to keep track of all the change in directions. But hopefully this will point to me being a reasonable buyer/seller, and serve as a warning to future customers of Sayshell. I will be posting a warning thread about Sayshell as well in the near future to reflect my experiences described during this transaction.

Posted: Oct 15, 2020 at 11:39 Quote
ronufoh wrote:
As Clifford has informed, I have decided not to send the frame and parts I purchased off of him back for a full refund. I am disappointed that he is able to 'win'.

Do note that Paypal did not side with him, my claim would have been denied completely and I would not have had the right to return my items purchased if this was the case. Paypal's decision to allow me to return the items purchased for a full refund happens when the buyer and seller can't come to conclusion or resolution, they are not able to force a seller to reimburse a buyer any amount. I did not and do not ask privately to return items as I do not believe this is within the scope of what private sellers should be responsible for, this is what shops and businesses are for. I try to work on a reasonable amount of compensation if the situation calls for it.

In this dealing, I had asked for $100 which I believe is a fair amount. Normally I would be amenable to negotiating the compensation if the seller feels the request is unfair. But Clifford's immediate attacks on me and offering me only $65/60/0/0.05 because he 'found' me to be a thief and scammer are unfounded, and not a reasonable basis of negotiation. His insistence of me admitting to something that I am not/have not done before willing to refund me even $80 is a bullying/intimidation tactic.

As his recent messages have indicated, I have no confidence that he will accept the frame and parts back in the condition they were sold to me 2 months ago so Paypal will refund me. He's indicated that he could counter file a Paypal claim and back up the process even further. I don't want to be without my money or a frame and parts that I had paid for already, so I'll suck up the loss in costs to rebuild shock and get the bearings working to an acceptable level -- my lesson learnt.

Thanks for reading along, I know it's difficult to keep track of all the change in directions. But hopefully this will point to me being a reasonable buyer/seller, and serve as a warning to future customers of Sayshell. I will be posting a warning thread about Sayshell as well in the near future to reflect my experiences described during this transaction.

"We have closed the case in your favor" (your referring to me)
End of story on who "won"... I guess my claims weren't so unreasonable after all?

Seriously I won't file a claim against you unless you damaged the shit out of it upon returning it. How about this, I will upload a video with all the damages you created on the products to this thread, and let the public decide if the damages are worth claiming compensation for? Is that fair?
Also to be clear....
Yes or no have you been using the products you purchased?

WTF are you talking about you were open to negotiation? "I will hold firm to $100" ... And then you threatened to open a paypal case against me if I didn't agree to your number... Open to negotiation my ass....I didn't accuse you of being a scammer and thief till later when I tried to determine why you are impossible to negotiate with to any extent and found those other threads.

" I did not and do not ask privately to return items as I do not believe this is within the scope of what private sellers should be responsible for, this is what shops and businesses are for."
Well there you have it... He won't return an item, he won't accept my discount, and he won't negotiate to any extent on the discount... WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? Eek

Actions speak louder than words man... Be as polite as you want. Doesn't change what you did.

Posted: Oct 15, 2020 at 13:27 Quote
Well you agreed to the $100 I asked for initially and asked for my Paypal to reimburse me. Then 15 minutes later changed your mind and offered $65 instead? If you gave me a compelling reason to move off my $100 request (not the 'massive $15 discount you gave me already), I would have listened to those.

I'm done here, I honestly have nothing else to say to you. If you showed me that I could trust you through this process, I would have sent everything back to you during Paypal's authorized return period. But I've already explained why I'm not doing that.

And the parts have been in use, which is why I was hoping to keep the parts and return the frame only as you had offered initially. And then you changed your mind, again. And then you started spouting off about damages and things, so no I did not want to jeopardize my money and products over a 'new' scratch you found on the used handlebar.

So congratulations, you win. Cheers.

Posted: Oct 15, 2020 at 13:44 Quote
Just so you know for future reference if you open a paypal dispute you don't own the product until the dispute has been resolved. I think it's pretty reasonable to charge you for damages, if you rent a product FOR FREE for 4 months without my consent, and damage it in the process, and return it. I didn't just give that reason I gave a bunch, and even in the end when we clearly went over everything a million times you didn't accept 80$ discount. So what's the deal now, do you want the discount or what?

And yeah that's another thing. I AM STILL GIVING RONALD A REBATE despite the fact I won the paypal case, and am under NO OBLIGATION to do so. I can easily just give him 0$ at this point if I want, but even if he is exaggerating the damages/making them up I didn't handle this situation professionally at all and have admitted to fault.

Posted: Oct 16, 2020 at 17:14 Quote
Well this has been fun. Thanks all.

Posted: Oct 16, 2020 at 19:32 Quote
You haven't given me anything. Your rebate as you would like to call it was conditional on me accepting your terms and basically admitting I was trying to scam you. So if that's the case still, no thanks -- I don't need the few bucks enough to sell myself out.

You have my PayPal, if you're feeling as generous as you say you are just send the funds through instead of making a scene here. Like every other time you've offered me something then changed your mind shortly after, I'll believe it when I see it.

And FYI I received your stuff in early August, so it's been 2 months not 4 months. But I don't expect you could keep that straight since you don't seem to be very good with details and have shown yourself to make gross exaggerations.

Posted: Oct 16, 2020 at 22:53 Quote
What are you talking about? The 80$ I offered you WAS NOT under the condition you retract the seized bearing claim. That was based on your answers to the questions I had asked you and the answers you had given... Nowhere did I force you to answer anything in a particular way, I simply would have offered you a larger discount had you answered yes to that question... I really wanted to give you the opportunity to retract that point, because then I would have said it was simply a mistake/misunderstanding rather than a cash grab.
Ok fair enough 2 and halfish months then I stand corrected.
The only reason I haven't sent the rebate yet is I don't actually know what is going on and need to figure out how to send a conditional rebate. (the only condition for the rebate is that you have to refund it if you change your mind and decide to return the frame). Fair enough?

Posted: Oct 17, 2020 at 17:15 Quote
Why does it have to be conditional? Just give him the hundo, man

Posted: Oct 17, 2020 at 17:38 Quote
izzygaafar wrote:
Why does it have to be conditional? Just give him the hundo, man
Really? Because if he returns the frame then obviously he can't keep the rebate.
And I already sent it yesterday... And don't tell me what to do. I can rebate him 10 cents, or 500$ if I want to. I picked a number that was quite fair.

Posted: Oct 17, 2020 at 17:48 Quote
100$ is fair, lol. Your product was flawed, and he wants compensation. You're arguing. 0/10 customer service, would not recommend.

Posted: Oct 18, 2020 at 17:55 Quote
izzygaafar wrote:
100$ is fair, lol. Your product was flawed, and he wants compensation. You're arguing. 0/10 customer service, would not recommend.

You obviously didn't read anything or have that "the customer is always right mindset"... I already offered 65$ and 80$ compensation, both were rejected. Not sure how you can call that "0 customer service" I won't offer full compensation because some of the damage he wanted compensation for was already listed in the ad, and the other reasons I already went over. If I sell you something and you don't like it then either return it or accept the discount. You can't just force me to sell you something at any price you feel like. If a full return isn't good enough for you then sorry, I can't think you are anything but hopelessly entitled... End of story, most sellers won't even let you return stuff. If you disagree with that being fair then there is no point trying to reason.

Posted: Oct 19, 2020 at 13:42 Quote
Clifford has come through to provide me with the compensation that I requested 2 and a half months ago, under no obligation to do so as our Paypal dispute resolution had closed. I have asked him to either delete or remove this thread since it's 90% drivel and garbage, but if he chooses to keep the thread here I think I've said everything that I need to to vouch for myself and my conduct.

To conclude, these are our last set of messages. At this point I really don't have anything else to add, I promise.

3 days ago
Sayshell PLUS says:
Ok I figured it out, it will be easiest if you just send me an invoice via paypal. Just follow these steps...

Send an invoice at ****@hotmail.com if you are not sure how to create an invoice it's pretty easy basically just google it, or ask me.
Bill me 125$ cad

Write this in the terms and conditions:
"Ronald has decided to keep the parts, and Clifford has agreed to give a rebate since he no longer feels it's out of force and extortion, and feels a lot more generous when not being threatened. This rebate is in regards to paypal resolution PP-D-79663705. The only condition of this rebate is that if Ronald decides to return the items in paypal case PP-D-79663705 then he must refund this rebate first."

Why am I giving 125$? Because I want to show you it's not about the money, it's about good faith and fair negotiations. I don't respond well to threats.

3 days ago
Sayshell PLUS says:
Also if you post this message publicy please write my paypal address as ********@hotmail.com

23 hours ago
ronufoh says:
I've sent the request for $103 -- $100 was what I asked for as fair compensation and $3 to cover the Paypal fee for goods and services so you have protection as well.

As the Paypal return period has passed, obviously I won't be sending anything back to you. If I send anything back to you, I would be expecting not to receive any form of money back for those things because you are under no obligation to provide any refunds as our Paypal case was closed earlier this week already.

21 hours ago
Sayshell PLUS says:
Done, you should have it.

7 mins ago
ronufoh says:
Thank you for being reasonable, though it's unfortunate it took this long and all the stuff that went on between August and now. I will give you recognition for compensating me now as you had no obligation to do so.

This was not about the money for me either, which is why I did not accept anymore than the $100 that I had asked for right at the beginning.

Just so you are 100% clear, I'll explain exactly why I held firm to my request of $100. You can read through our initial PM's to verify if you feel so inclined.

1. you initially agreed to compensate me $100 for the damage I informed you of
2. 15 minutes later you changed your mind to $65, because you already gave me a $15 discount for bulk purchase. The discount was have been based on me receiving everything in the condition it was advertised in, which the frame/shock were not.
3. Later that same evening, you refused to accept that the cost to rebuild the shock was what I had informed you of, instead claiming the shop was ripping me off. That tells me you are either uninformed, ignorant, or both.
4. And then you started down the rabbit hole of trying to frame me as a thief and scammer, starting the smear thread about me to try and ignite the 'mob', which I think is fair to say did not work out as you had planned.

I'm glad in the end you were able to come to your senses and we achieved a resolution. I'm obviously not happy about the path that it took to get here, and you shouldn't be either.

Based on what you've told us about the way you conduct business in the past, and how you try to be descriptive in your ads, I believe you try to be a good seller. Having said that, if you have improperly advertised anything you are selling you should be willing to stand behind your practice and word instead of coming right out and attacking your customers and making false claims.

I would like to request you to delete/take down the smear thread you created about our transaction. I don't feel there's anything in there that is helpful or relevant to you or anyone else for future transactions. However if you feel the need to keep the thread, I really don't care as I've done everything that I can/need to to exonerate myself.

I'll chalk this up to a learning opportunity, I hope you do as well.

Posted: Oct 19, 2020 at 14:32 Quote
To be fair to both of you, this has been the most entertaining thread on Pinkbike. I have been gripped and intrigued since it was started....and like the end of a film series I feel a little saddened it's all over.

Joking aside, glad you got it all sorted between you. Because you know, life's too short, and people are dying, and the world is a real mess right now....but I think you've both learned something.....

Posted: Oct 19, 2020 at 15:55 Quote
SkateFaster wrote:
To be fair to both of you, this has been the most entertaining thread on Pinkbike. I have been gripped and intrigued since it was started....and like the end of a film series I feel a little saddened it's all over.

Joking aside, glad you got it all sorted between you. Because you know, life's too short, and people are dying, and the world is a real mess right now....but I think you've both learned something.....
Gotta fuel the fire, start spreading rumors lol.

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