Anyone gone from 12 speed back to 111 speed?

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Anyone gone from 12 speed back to 111 speed?
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flag Danzzz88
Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 8:07 Quote
So after having Eagle on my last bike I realised I almost never used the 50t cog. Comparing weight of the XX1 11 speed cassette to the 12 speed is nearly 100 gram difference and nearly twice the price, I rather lose 100g in unsprung mass than have one extra cog I don't use and pay twice as much for cassettes but because I'm about to buy a new hub, the freehubs are expensive and I'm concerned if I bought an XX1 11 speed cassette they may not be around for much longer. Thing is if I go 12 speed in the future due to parts availability I will want microspline Shimano rather than Sram so it's not just a simple Cassette upgrade, it's the whole Shebang. And then what about cranks, do any cranks support 11 and 12 speed Chainrings that are not Raceface or Hope?
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 9:31 Quote
So I've been looking at road cassettes like the 12 speed Sram Force 1270 cassette in 10-36, I wouldn't mind trying to make that work but I see Sram has gone and made a 2mm longer freewheel called XDR rather than using XD for some reason, probably so people like myself that don't need a dinner plate hanging off the back can't easily use the road cassettes since they are cheaper.
flag joelsman
Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 10:22 Quote
I wouldn't worry about it. Still lots of older but less top end 8 and 9sp stuff.
flag DonLopez
Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 17:39 Quote
I’m still running a 10-speed 11-40 cassette, but think an 11-speed 10-42 would be perfect. In my opinion, 12-speed 10-36 would be good on a street bike, but too tightly geared for MTBs where you want a bigger jump in gear ratios. Most 11-speed MTB cassette has similar cogs to 12-speeds without the biggest cog.
flag Elgaucher
Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 17:49 Quote
last bike was slx 11speed , nothing to complain there.

Now I'm on box three prime9 so 9speed 11-50T and love the system.

Tried the 12speed option from sunrace while it was working really good for the price, still went back to 9speed when I received new derailler from box
flag csvetich
Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 20:46 Quote
Rode SS for ~10+ years

Had surgery

Then XT 11speed 11-48 ~440g for about 1 year

Now I ride a 10 speed saint ultegra 6700 11-28. 240g and love it

Since SS anything over 21 is awesome, but really the tight ratio under 21 is where it shines for down.

have analyzed the weight too. those top few gears over 36T a freaking heavy!! 200g+ removed from your rear, really is uplifting. Smile

personally i believe anything over 36T can be overcome with conditioning and strength.
flag JonDud
Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 21:26 Quote
Was using 11-46 11sp for a year, it wore out....

I replaced it with 11-42 11sp cassette...

If I want to spin more, I'll put on a smaller chainring.
flag rcollette45
Posted: Sep 13, 2020 at 22:18 Quote
Wolf tooth makes 10,11 & 12 speed chain rings (they're all compatible with each other).

11 speed isnt going anywhere. Its still pretty much the standard in the roadbike industry too.
flag Reaperactual
Posted: Sep 14, 2020 at 1:25 Quote
11 speed road cassettes are wider than mtb cassettes that's the reason for XDR. My Hope Pro 4 has standard Shimano road freehub that's why it needs a spacer for my 11 speed mtb cassette.

I'll stick with 11-42 cassettes and change chainring to customise my gearing if needed or go 11-40/46. Cassette and shifter/mech brand combos work together just fine in my experience.

I don't worry about XD Drivers or Microspline freehubs, standard HG has been around for a long time, still relevant, plenty of cassette options and isn't going to be phased out in the future.

Would also predict that Shimano will eventually produce a version of their 12 speed cassettes that fit to HG freehubs like Sram NX/SX do now.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Sep 14, 2020 at 2:55 Quote
If I could use Xo1 DH 7 speed and a cassette larger than 28t I would. I didn't even use all the gears on 9 speed. Pedalling on flat / downhill, use top 2 gears, pedalling up a hill use bottom two, accelerating from a start use a couple in the middle.

I mean I'm building up a lighter wheelset with a Carbon Ti hub, carbon rim ect and already saved 550g , 400g of which is on the rear wheel alone. Last bike had all the typical shit people said is great, DT EX 511 rims, Onyx rear hub, Eagle XX1 cassette. The rear end felt like a sack of potatoes, the best my ass, if I go 11 speed or less now I will have saved half a kilo in weight from the rear wheel alone compared to my last bike, no faster engagement, 2mm wider rim id or dinner plate cog I don't use is gonna make up for that. I'll take the noisy hub and lack of instant of instant engagement and lower pedal kickback thanks. It's alright saying the extra 100g here or there is worth the performance improvement, but when you are buying all parts that are 100g heavier especially in the wheels it really isn't worth it, half a kg off a bike is noticeable but the rear wheel is absolutely ridiculous.
flag Reaperactual
Posted: Sep 14, 2020 at 3:10 Quote
My set up is based on what suits me, the terrain and elevation I ride most regularly, my thoughts on components and future availability. You seem offended? I Wasn't offering my opinion as the way you should go Pal.

Durability, strength, cost and other factors made my decisions, weight saving wasn't a consideration for me. As per the thread title and your initial posts, I agree, if you're looking for saving grams then doing away with a massive cog that you don't use is a good option.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Sep 14, 2020 at 3:39 Quote
Reaperactual wrote:
My set up is based on what suits me, the terrain and elevation I ride most regularly my thoughts on components and future availability. You seem offended? Wasn't offering my opinion as the way you should go Pal.

Durability, strength, cost and other factors made my decisions, weight saving wasn't a consideration for me. As per the thread title and your initial posts, I agree, if you're looking for saving grams then doing away with a massive cog that you don't use is a good option.

I wasn't replying to you mate I was just ranting lol
flag Reaperactual
Posted: Sep 14, 2020 at 3:53 Quote
Lol! Smile I like a rant sometimes too. Interesting thread, rant away Danzzz88 it gives people an alternate view point and helps with learning more, I reckon. Beer
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Sep 14, 2020 at 4:23 Quote
I guess my point is all these industry standards and magazines saying add a couple mm here and a cog there, lower your engagment there ect seems like it's not a big deal in weight when you are only looking at one part at a time or gradual changes over years but then you add it all up. Don't get me wrong I'm actually a fan of a bit more weight on the frame as I feel it helps the stability and comfort on rough downhills with little price to pay on flat or even climbing but when it comes to wheels it makes a huge difference and unfortunately the drivetrain especially the cassette is a big part of that wheel weight. It affects suspension performance, acceleration and handling quite significantly.
flag commental
Posted: Sep 14, 2020 at 5:41 Quote
I've just gone back to 11 speed on my Rallon. I got to the point where I couldn't be bothered trying to get the indexing dialled in with Eagle. Plus the cost of replacing the cassette with anything decent is, in my opinion, a piss take.
I was interested to try the Microshift 10 speed set up, but due to stock issues and a complete lack of interest from them around emails I sent, I've moved away from that option.
With the chain and cassette costs, plus resale value on my 12 speed stuff, I'm very happy with my decision.
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